Sanctuary Discussion (Spoilers for the most recent episode)

[Chelle DB]

I really want, or the ep I really want to see, is one just Ash And Magnus. Like Requiem. Not like the story but like with no more characters. Both stuck somewhere by themselfs.

Yeh, Helen' attitude in the webis was better. Snobbish, more to do with the posture and accent. More in your face.
And Ash was more: " I can handle it!" I like her better in the eps, but she's a bit watered down. her reaction to whom her father is was much better in the webis. I hope now that she's evil LOL that she'll be thougher.
Plus we had more info in the webis.

I would love love love an Ashley/Helen centered ep! Something with angst and whump and lots of revelations!!
I must be one of a very few, but I actually didn't mind Ashley's character in the webisodes...I mean I like her now but I did love her reaction to the revelation of who her father was and I did like her snippy attitude.

I likely would never have come to find Sanctuary () if it were not for Amanda. I really like the episodes that feature Helen or delve into her background. Is that because I like Amanda or because I like the character so much? Probably a bit of both.

I wouldn't have found Sanctuary if it weren't for GW...simply because it's here where I first discovered it. Like how I kinda discovered BSG and Atlantis.
Having Amanda on it is the biggest draw card for me...but not exclusively if that makes sense...I would still watch it without her but I doubt it would be the same. Christopher Heyerdahl is also a draw card for me too.

[Inward Wind]

I hadn't watched the web-episodes before the tv series. Just recently went and found them. I was really suprised to find such a difference in the two characters between the two mediums.

I definately like Helen better in the tv version. She seems more human and easier to connect with. I like parts of Ashley from both. She appears to me more sociable and intermixes with the group better. Also, I like the fact that she hasn't shown that immediate outward aggression to finding out who her father was. The way it is played now, you just keep waiting for the moment that it all comes to a head between her and both parents. (Maybe in second season).

One thing that I did like about her in the webepsidoes was she seemed tougher in a way. In the web, she was out beating everything in sight. On the tv, she really hasn't kicked anybody's butt since Fata Morgana. Can we get an inbetween?

Of course, it is hard to really compare because there are so many more tv episodes than there were webepisodes and you don't know how the characters would have evolved on the web if given more time.

[jckfan55]

Thing is, I very much liked Helen's arrogance. The fact that she wasn't instantly likeable appealed to me. Conversely, I didn't like Ashley's brashness in the webisodes.

Me too. I wish they had kept just a bit more of that with Helen, but I can see why they wanted to make her more "likeable" from the beginning for tv. I was really worried when they said they were going to do that, but I think they got a pretty good balance.

One of the things about Requiem is that

Spoiler:

I think some of the things she either subconsciously thinks or that she thinks but holds back, came out under the influence of the parasite. For example, I read her snapping at Will about being some kind of "entertainment" for him as being a real thought, but one she ordinarily wouldn't say.

[EvenstarSRV]

Me too. I wish they had kept just a bit more of that with Helen, but I can see why they wanted to make her more "likeable" from the beginning for tv. I was really worried when they said they were going to do that, but I think they got a pretty good balance.

I think they've reached a pretty good balance as well. She's definitely warmed up in her interactions with Will, Ashley, and Henry compared to the webisodes, but I think she still maintains some arrogance when dealing with outsides, like the reporter in Instinct or the passengers in Kush.

One of the things about Requiem is that

Spoiler:

I think some of the things she either subconsciously thinks or that she thinks but holds back, came out under the influence of the parasite. For example, I read her snapping at Will about being some kind of "entertainment" for him as being a real thought, but one she ordinarily wouldn't say.

I agree

Spoiler:

Based on the opening scene it looked like she'd been humoring all his questions for most of the mission, but while it may be just history to him, for Helen its personal, it's her life. I think a lot of what Helen ended up saying in Requiem, about Will seeing her as entertainment, not being able to relate to Ashley, that no one was meant to live forever, were probably things she's thought about but usually restrained herself from saying out loud.

[ames]

One of the things about Requiem is that

Spoiler:

I think some of the things she either subconsciously thinks or that she thinks but holds back, came out under the influence of the parasite. For example, I read her snapping at Will about being some kind of "entertainment" for him as being a real thought, but one she ordinarily wouldn't say.

I agree

Spoiler:

Based on the opening scene it looked like she'd been humoring all his questions for most of the mission, but while it may be just history to him, for Helen its personal, it's her life. I think a lot of what Helen ended up saying in Requiem, about Will seeing her as entertainment, not being able to relate to Ashley, that no one was meant to live forever, were probably things she's thought about but usually restrained herself from saying out loud.

I think you both bring up an interesting element of Requiem that I hadn't thought of before - thx for that!

As for the character changes from the webisodes to the episodes ... Helen's change didn't bother me - although I did miss some of those one-liners (scones, he used your toilet? how annoying! and the cutting of the allowance) to mention a few ... I definitely noticed the change in Ashley! I wasn't sure if I was going to like the 'new' Ash as much, but they've made it work ... although I agree, it'd be nice to bring back the 'kick-arse' element of her personality to the front again - I'm guessing we'll be seeing more of that in S2!

[EH-T]

I think they've reached a pretty good balance as well. She's definitely warmed up in her interactions with Will, Ashley, and Henry compared to the webisodes, but I think she still maintains some arrogance when dealing with outsides, like the reporter in Instinct or the passengers in Kush.

I agree. That's why I don't see as big a difference between Helen in the webisodes v. tv as opposed to Ashley.

[jckfan55]

I wasn't sure if I was going to like the 'new' Ash as much, but they've made it work ... although I agree, it'd be nice to bring back the 'kick-arse' element of her personality to the front again - I'm guessing we'll be seeing more of that in S2!

I'd say it's still there, but they've tried to make her more well rounded. Still, what was it Druitt said in The Five?

Spoiler:

that she just "captures and kills whatever mummy tells (her) to"

I'm sure someone can help me with the exact quote.

[EvenstarSRV]

I'd say it's still there, but they've tried to make her more well rounded. Still, what was it Druitt said in The Five?

Spoiler:

that she just "captures and kills whatever mummy tells (her) to"

I'm sure someone can help me with the exact quote.

That's how I remember that quote too. He also said just before that

Spoiler:

that she 'had no concept of the meaning behind her work'.

One of the aspects of Ashley's character that I was glad to see them develop was that, even though she goes on these crazy missions with her mom, her life has been relatively sheltered from a social aspect. She's probably never really been to a normal school, gone to sleepovers or birthday parties, and going by her behavior in Instinct, hasn't had much dating experience either, so her social circle is really limited to the Sanctuary. I think that's a bit why the revelation about her father hit her so hard, because it wasn't just her mom that kept it from her, it was her best friend (Helen) too.

I think those elements really soften the character from the much more hard-line, almost no-nonsense version in the webisodes. Now she's got a definite chink in her armor and an aspect to her character that has lots room for development.

[JenniferJF]

One of the aspects of Ashley's character that I was glad to see them develop was that, even though she goes on these crazy missions with her mom, her life has been relatively sheltered from a social aspect. She's probably never really been to a normal school, gone to sleepovers or birthday parties, and going by her behavior in Instinct, hasn't had much dating experience either, so her social circle is really limited to the Sanctuary. I think that's a bit why the revelation about her father hit her so hard, because it wasn't just her mom that kept it from her, it was her best friend (Helen) too.

I also wonder if Ashley hadnt often questioned Helen on why there were so many restrictions on her, Ashley's, life. I can see especially a teenaged Ashley questioning why she wasn't allowed to do all the 'normal' things other teens could do, and also feeling the answers she was given were essentially inadequate to fully justify why she couldn't. I'd think there'd have been some friction between them in the past on just this topic. So not only could having known about Druitt actually served to protect Ashley against him it might have prevented past tensions between mother and daughter as well. Which means I think Ashley must really be questioning not just what her mother is really thinking and feeling while at the same time she is, as you say, isolated not just from her mother but also from her best friend not simply because of the current lie about John but all the past ones as well. In other words, she must be wondering why her mother didn't simply tell her the truth - I'd suspect the idea it was a painful truth to Helen isn't the first one she'd come to given Helen's usual tight emotional control even around Ashley who must be wondering what's wrong with her and their relationship instead.

[majorsal]

One of the things about Requiem is that

Spoiler:

I think some of the things she either subconsciously thinks or that she thinks but holds back, came out under the influence of the parasite. For example, I read her snapping at Will about being some kind of "entertainment" for him as being a real thought, but one she ordinarily wouldn't say.

Spoiler:

it's like helen had brain damage, and that part that normally censors what she says was shut off. or helen on super, duper, mega PMS.

[Inward Wind]

Spoiler:

it's like helen had brain damage, and that part that normally censors what she says was shut off. or helen on super, duper, mega PMS.

lol. I think I'll start using that excuse the next time I go and "stick my foot in my mouth" MEGA PMS!

Spoiler:

I forgot about those couple of lines Druitt said to Ashley in the Five. I wonder if between finding out her mother lied to her; Druitt telling her that he wanted to her think for herself and the Cabal lady questioning both Ashley and Helen's motives that Ashley wouldn't definately be wavering in her faith that her mother knows best.

On another note, I was thinking about next season and wondered:

Spoiler:

If there was a face off with Helen and evil Ashley, who would Druitt choose to save?

[jelgate]

On another note, I was thinking about next season and wondered:

Spoiler:

If there was a face off with Helen and evil Ashley, who would Druitt choose to save?

Spoiler:

I would think Ashley. I think Druitt feels responsible what happened to Ashley and her encounter of the Cabal. I think Helen also would want Druit to save Ashley over her. Helen seems like the person who would sacrifice her life for her love ones like Ashley

[majorsal]

On another note, I was thinking about next season and wondered:

Spoiler:

If there was a face off with Helen and evil Ashley, who would Druitt choose to save?

Spoiler:

interesting question. my immediate thought was helen, because he'd not want to have another 'monster' alive like himself. and i think he still loves helen dearly, so those two together... but i could be wrong.

[EvenstarSRV]

I also wonder if Ashley hadnt often questioned Helen on why there were so many restrictions on her, Ashley's, life. I can see especially a teenaged Ashley questioning why she wasn't allowed to do all the 'normal' things other teens could do, and also feeling the answers she was given were essentially inadequate to fully justify why she couldn't. I'd think there'd have been some friction between them in the past on just this topic. So not only could having known about Druitt actually served to protect Ashley against him it might have prevented past tensions between mother and daughter as well. Which means I think Ashley must really be questioning not just what her mother is really thinking and feeling while at the same time she is, as you say, isolated not just from her mother but also from her best friend not simply because of the current lie about John but all the past ones as well. In other words, she must be wondering why her mother didn't simply tell her the truth - I'd suspect the idea it was a painful truth to Helen isn't the first one she'd come to given Helen's usual tight emotional control even around Ashley who must be wondering what's wrong with her and their relationship instead.

Well said. Ashley must be now questioning what else Helen has kept from her over the years, and why her mother doesn't seem to trust her with that information. And I think that, combined with Druitt almost demanding that she start thinking for herself, will underlie future tensions between Ashley and Helen, since I don't think she'll be content to just 'do what mummy tells her to' anymore.

Spoiler:

I would think Ashley. I think Druitt feels responsible what happened to Ashley and her encounter of the Cabal. I think Helen also would want Druit to save Ashley over her. Helen seems like the person who would sacrifice her life for her love ones like Ashley

Spoiler:

I agree. I initially thought Druitt would save Helen, because even though Ashley is his daughter, he probably emotionally feels much closer to Helen. But I can definitely see Helen almost ordering Druitt to save Ashley instead, and I don't think he would ignore Helen's 'dying wish' as it were.

[Chelle DB]

On another note, I was thinking about next season and wondered:

Spoiler:

If there was a face off with Helen and evil Ashley, who would Druitt choose to save?

Spoiler:

I agree. I initially thought Druitt would save Helen, because even though Ashley is his daughter, he probably emotionally feels much closer to Helen. But I can definitely see Helen almost ordering Druitt to save Ashley instead, and I don't think he would ignore Helen's 'dying wish' as it were.

I have to admit that my first reaction was...

Spoiler:

Oh please let it be Helen that he would save...but then I have to agree with Evenstar and say that even if Druitt would initially chose Helen. Helen would pretty much force Druitt to save Ashley...I think most mothers would...besides the fact that Helen would not hesitate to sacrifice herself to save Ashley...but Druitt would be torn...I just believe that deep down he would save Helen first but I dunno

...that's a really hard choice to make.