Sanctuary Discussion (Spoilers for the most recent episode)

[AstraPerAspera]

It's a valid point. And I agree with wanting to see more relationships explored. I'm very hopeful we'll get more of that in S2. You all know I keep agitating for more Helen/Ashley development. (as if my agitating influences anything. )
AT: Well, jckfan says we need more Helen and Ashley so let's get cracking on that.

Oh I'm with you. And forgive me if I'm jumping in late to the discussion and haven't gone back and picked up on things previously brought up...but the reveal from The Five set up an incredible opportunity to explore Helen and Ashley's relationship much more deeply and the fact that their whole "there's nothing wrong" facade, as Jenn identified, is so incredibly fragile it just demands that it be shattered and those deep issues addressed.

Which is what, perhaps, the fall out of Revelations will be as Helen and the others get to the task of trying to reclaim Ashley from the dark side. Although, of course, the ultimate irony would be if it were John who was the most successful at it, having been there himself...

EDIT: And Jenn...just cuz you can't see me, doesn't mean I'm not there...

[RealmOfX]

Okey Dokey, hands up who is having withdrawal symptoms.

*raises hand*

I was thinking we might do a few things to combat it, like revisit each episode with a light hearted review each week (and maybe the webisodes too), post screen caps from an episode for rounds of "Caption This", post links to great vids or fan fic. Anyone interested? If you are, should we do it in this thread or create a temporary one for use until Season 2 starts?

[majorsal]

ooh, excellent idea. I gave it demerits for the "Hulk Will" muscles and the "fight club" thing --which seemed kind of like they were appealing to the usual SciFi channel demographic. At least they came up with a somewhat plausible reason for it--testing their creations. I liked the other elements fairly well.

I don't think any of the episodes were cr**, I just enjoyed some more than others & thought some were better than others.

about 'warriors'...

Spoiler:

while the beginning and the helen/dad stuff was good, the other aspect... i actually felt embarrassed by it. i don't really know how else to describe it.

it didn't ruin the whole ep for me, but it definitely put it at the bottom of the list, even with the helen/dad stuff. and even that aspect i had some issues with, because i didn't care for the idea of gregory still being alive, even if he was a clone or something. and do we 'know' if it was the real guy?

but the episode wasn't rubbish.

i'm thinking of inducing coma so i don't have to wait for the goodies (s2 of sanctuary and 3rd sg1 movie). or i'll have sallythemermaid wake me when it's time.

[majorsal]

I feel the same way sometime except for the exact opposite reason. I honestly can't understand why Requiem is hailed so much. I only find it mediocore.

Oh, me too. Don't get me wrong, I think AT did an astonishing acting job there, but I didn't feel it had much depth (pardon the pun) in either plot or character-development compared to a lot of other episodes. Which is why I agree with whomever said they'd wished for more of a B plot. Because I can't help thinking if we'd seen more of what was going on back and the Sanctuary, possibly Ashley's POV as her mother and Will were missing, I might have enjoyed it more.

i think it would have cut the tention of the ep, though.

the number one reason why i LOVE 'requiem' is because amanda rocked!!!! *has fangirl moment* but as a storyline, i really, really enjoyed it too. i like intimate character pieces, like 'grace'.

[majorsal]

'requiem'

Spoiler:

i guess part of the problem may be the episode seems awfully similar to Kush. A 'Will/Helen' episode with the two of them isolated from the rest of 'the team' and with a chance to explore their relationship one-on-one. Given the shortage of episodes in a season, I can't help but thinking it might have been more interesting to see other characters/relationships explored more than two episodes so strongly devoted to those two. Personal preference, of course.

Spoiler:

i didn't take 'requiem' as a helen/will storyline, as much as a helen-falls-apart one. for someone who keeps themselves so tight and in control, this would be a stunning experience. and will saw firsthand what an out-of-control helen would be like. we all have dark recesses...

to me, if the storyline kept switching from helen/will to the sanctuary, it would have cut the tension in half. i think it would have diluted the power of the ep.

[majorsal]

It's a valid point. And I agree with wanting to see more relationships explored. I'm very hopeful we'll get more of that in S2. You all know I keep agitating for more Helen/Ashley development. (as if my agitating influences anything. )

the helen/ashley relationship is the number one i'm most looking forward to exploring!

[AstraPerAspera]

Okey Dokey, hands up who is having withdrawal symptoms.

*raises hand*

I was thinking we might do a few things to combat it, like revisit each episode with a light hearted review each week (and maybe the webisodes too), post screen caps from an episode for rounds of "Caption This", post links to great vids or fan fic. Anyone interested? If you are, should we do it in this thread or create a temporary one for use until Season 2 starts?

Good idea. Just to toss out some thoughts to expand on it a bit (and I'm the new kid here, so forgive my impertinance), something we do on another thread I frequent is called "Episode of the Week", where we choose an episode and everyone tries to watch it and we have in-depth discussions about the episode thru-out the week...or post screen caps...or artwork...or fics and such based on that specific episode. It's been a lot of fun where I hang out and it really helps in breaking down the episodes and seeing a lot of things that maybe got missed on earlier viewings.

Now of course we usually vote on those eps, cuz we're talking over 200 choices...but in this case, we could simply start at the beginning and work our way thru. I don't think we'd need a separate thread for it because IMHO it seems to fit very nicely with the subject of this particular one.

It's just a thought.

[JenniferJF]

Requiem:

Spoiler:

i didn't take 'requiem' as a helen/will storyline, as much as a helen-falls-apart one. for someone who keeps themselves so tight and in control, this would be a stunning experience. and will saw firsthand what an out-of-control helen would be like. we all have dark recesses...

to me, if the storyline kept switching from helen/will to the sanctuary, it would have cut the tension in half. i think it would have diluted the power of the ep.

See, I never really thought we learned much about Helen, cause I took what happened to mean she was literally out of control, with her limbic system taken over, and so what we saw her do really had nothing to do with Helen and everything to do with the parasite. Just as the peaceful mermaids became violent. It wasn't hidden recesses but hostile take-over.

I do agree with Sky, though, that the episode did show us a hidden iron within Will in his ability to do what needed to be done. So in many ways it was almost a 'coming of age' episode for him. And when I say 'B plot' I don't mean keep switching. Going back to Kush, I felt they conveyed a wealth of feeling in just the very few shots of folks back at the Sanctuary, and the poignancy of the "I love you's" and the picture on the cellphone spoke volumes. And for me, personally, the episodes high on my list (The Five, Sanctuary for All, Revelations) have a lot more 'moments' for a lot more characters because that's what I enjoy. But this is totally personal preference and its why, for me, I would have liked a moment or two, as we had with Kush, of the other characters reactions...

[suse]

I'd love to do a week by week ep discussion.
It's going to be a long time til Oct 6.

We can do it twice or one every 2 weeks.


suse

[EvenstarSRV]

Requiem:

Spoiler:

See, I never really thought we learned much about Helen, cause I took what happened to mean she was literally out of control, with her limbic system taken over, and so what we saw her do really had nothing to do with Helen and everything to do with the parasite. Just as the peaceful mermaids became violent. It wasn't hidden recesses but hostile take-over.

I do agree with Sky, though, that the episode did show us a hidden iron within Will in his ability to do what needed to be done. So in many ways it was almost a 'coming of age' episode for him. And when I say 'B plot' I don't mean keep switching. Going back to Kush, I felt they conveyed a wealth of feeling in just the very few shots of folks back at the Sanctuary, and the poignancy of the "I love you's" and the picture on the cellphone spoke volumes. And for me, personally, the episodes high on my list (The Five, Sanctuary for All, Revelations) have a lot more 'moments' for a lot more characters because that's what I enjoy. But this is totally personal preference and its why, for me, I would have liked a moment or two, as we had with Kush, of the other characters reactions...

Helen in Requiem

Spoiler:

I felt that we did learn a lot about Helen because she was losing control, since as Will said, she's one of the most measured and controlled person he knows. I think because of everything she's experienced in her long life, Helen fiercely protects her heart and controls her emotions. As the parasite impaired her limbic system, it impaired that emotional control and we saw the darker, more bitter aspects of her personality come out.

She can't continue to gloss over her strained relationship with Ashley, she's pushed to openly admit that she can't relate to her own daughter. She earlier laughed off Will's joke about dinner parties, but is then pushed to confess her feelings of isolation and loneliness concerning her difficulty in opening up to people. She lightly deflected Will's amazement about the amount of history she's lived through, but is then forced to fully confront her own mortality.

So I didn't see the parasite as taking over Helen, but more stripping her self-control and leaving behind all the turbulent emotions of a woman who has spent decades witnessing and experiencing the best and worst of humanity and herself. Rather like how the parasites didn't take over the merfolk, but stripped away their peaceful tendencies and left behind the aggressiveness they always had, since Helen did say they were quite capable of defending themselves, they were just able to control that violence.

I also think the main purpose of having two Helen/Will bonding episodes (Kush and Requiem) was because a major arc of the season was Will's acceptance into the Sanctuary. He was the outsider who had to fit in and hold his own, while Ashley, Henry and Bigfoot were established, contributing members of the team.

An opposing arc, in a way, was the fracturing of Helen and Ashley's relationship, which will mostly likely continue for at least a few episodes next season and will also hopefully be followed up by some Helen/Ashley bonding episodes.

[jelgate]

I'm not against the idea but is their a legal way view the Sanctuary episodes?

[Chelle DB]

Okey Dokey, hands up who is having withdrawal symptoms.
*raises hand*

I was thinking we might do a few things to combat it, like revisit each episode with a light hearted review each week (and maybe the webisodes too), post screen caps from an episode for rounds of "Caption This", post links to great vids or fan fic. Anyone interested? If you are, should we do it in this thread or create a temporary one for use until Season 2 starts?

*raises hand*
*raises both hands*

about 'warriors'...

Spoiler:

while the beginning and the helen/dad stuff was good, the other aspect... i actually felt embarrassed by it. i don't really know how else to describe it.

it didn't ruin the whole ep for me, but it definitely put it at the bottom of the list, even with the helen/dad stuff. and even that aspect i had some issues with, because i didn't care for the idea of gregory still being alive, even if he was a clone or something. and do we 'know' if it was the real guy?
but the episode wasn't rubbish.

i'm thinking of inducing coma so i don't have to wait for the goodies (s2 of sanctuary and 3rd sg1 movie). or i'll have sallythemermaid wake me when it's time.

Re Warriors:

Spoiler:

I would have to say that the main issue I had with Warriors is the whole fight scene everything about it turned e off The bulked up Will was just too comical...I couldn't take it seriously...not that I'm implying that it all should be taken seriously...if that makes sense...but I just couldn't enjoy watching that ep. Although...I did enjoy the look on Ashley's face when she saw HulkWill!

i think it would have cut the tention of the ep, though.
the number one reason why i LOVE 'requiem' is because amanda rocked!!!! *has fangirl moment* but as a storyline, i really, really enjoyed it too. i like intimate character pieces, like 'grace'.

The number one reason why I loved Requiem was because

Spoiler:

I loved what Amanda and Robin bought to the screen...and I loved the story behind it...the whole parasite thing and it being the cause of the mer-people's deaths and then the invasion of Helen's mind by the parasite and how Will dealt with it and Helen's vulnerability and then the death scene and Will standing back and waiting for what had to be done to be done and all this happening in a confined space

.
Ok...so I love it for more than one reason...but one thing it did for me...it kept me totally enthralled and captured...I didn't want to move from my spot til it ended...and even then I didn't want to move!!

the helen/ashley relationship is the number one i'm most looking forward to exploring!

Yeah...that and the Helen/Druitt relationship.
So I was thinking,

Spoiler:

do you think that James Watson helped Helen to freeze the embryo all those years ago?? And do you think he helped her to bring the baby to term?? He just strikes me as the type of friend and scientist that would do that for Helen.

[Rocky89]

Yeah...that and the Helen/Druitt relationship.
So I was thinking,

Spoiler:

do you think that James Watson helped Helen to freeze the embryo all those years ago?? And do you think he helped her to bring the baby to term?? He just strikes me as the type of friend and scientist that would do that for Helen.

Hey, that's good thinking Chelle .

[Chelle DB]

And that took some effort for me!! It's kinda stifling here.

[majorsal]

*
Ok...so I love it for more than one reason...but one thing it did for me...it kept me totally enthralled and captured...I didn't want to move from my spot til it ended...and even then I didn't want to move!!

i felt the same, chelle!

Yeah...that and the Helen/Druitt relationship.
So I was thinking,

Spoiler:

do you think that James Watson helped Helen to freeze the embryo all those years ago?? And do you think he helped her to bring the baby to term?? He just strikes me as the type of friend and scientist that would do that for Helen.

Spoiler:

that might very well be true. i hope we find out! and SEE it!