Two For The Road (220)

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

We just saw an ep where well dressed Others had lockers with raggedy clothes and a theatrical makeup kit with a beard and face glue. That medical hatch had modern equipment...and raggedy clothes on hangers. Ergo, the others are all the same people but are assigned different missions.

Well, that's my theory, anyways.

But speaking of that medical hatch, remember how Claire was during her time with Ethon? She was drugged and she was happy and friendly with him and, presumably, whatever staff was there with them.

Is it simply coincidence that we got Claire's flashback so soon before Micheal comes back, or setup to explain Micheal's behavoir? I think he's been brainwashed. Micheal may love his son, but mostly we've seen him conflicted about taking him back(from his adopted dad). He gave up on his son before, when he was a baby, albeit not without a fight. I just don't see him killing those he considers friends in exchange for a faint hope that the others - proven murderers and kidnappers - will uphold their end of some bargain and give him Walt.

There has been a lot of mind-altering on the island - most notably, Boone seeing his sister in trouble, cutting himself loose to go and save her, seeing the monster and then Shannon, dead. Locke, seeing Boone all bloody and talking about how "Maria falls up the stairs, Maria falls down the stairs." There is some serious stuff going on here and the others are in control of all that, including Micheal's actions; I'd bet on it.

[memnarch]

I think Henry and Locke's conversation needs to be brought up (again, possibly, didn't see anyone else talking about it much). Henry says to Locke that he is "one of the good ones." Clearly, the Others don't think Ana is a good one for their purposes (I'm guessing genetic engeneering or that they're people who can be convinced to see the "importance" of the Others work). Also, I don't know if there's a connection, but Locke has seen the monster and was likely "scanned" by it, much like Eko was. It may be that Eko and Locke are some of the good ones as determined by smokey (possibly aka Cerberus). However, if this is the case, I don't think Eko will turn to the Others since he stared down smokey and is very religious, where as Locke believes in the Island. Locke, on the other hand, may. I think this would be an interesting direction for the show to take, and it may already be taking it with Michael. Michael may be one of the good ones. It's difficult to tell which of the fusies the Others consider good ones because Ethan never finished his list. However, it's safe to say that Jack, Kate, and Charlie aren't, since the Others have shown they don't want Kate or Charlie, and don't like Jack, as evidenced by Mr. Friendly (aka Zeke). Thoughts?

[Skydiver]

IMHO, telling locke that he's 'one of the good ones' is just another way to divide the losties.

if locke believes that he's good, then someone must be bad...and being 'good' can be used to justify locke's actions to himself

all along, henry has played the losties against each other. he keeps them separate, keeps them at odds, keeps them fighting...keeps them keeping secrets

'divided they fall'

divided they can't discuss and think and come up with any good ideas or solid theories

[Redmen]

I think Henry and Locke's conversation needs to be brought up (again, possibly, didn't see anyone else talking about it much). Henry says to Locke that he is "one of the good ones." Clearly, the Others don't think Ana is a good one for their purposes (I'm guessing genetic engeneering or that they're people who can be convinced to see the "importance" of the Others work). Also, I don't know if there's a connection, but Locke has seen the monster and was likely "scanned" by it, much like Eko was. It may be that Eko and Locke are some of the good ones as determined by smokey (possibly aka Cerberus). However, if this is the case, I don't think Eko will turn to the Others since he stared down smokey and is very religious, where as Locke believes in the Island. Locke, on the other hand, may. I think this would be an interesting direction for the show to take, and it may already be taking it with Michael. Michael may be one of the good ones. It's difficult to tell which of the fusies the Others consider good ones because Ethan never finished his list. However, it's safe to say that Jack, Kate, and Charlie aren't, since the Others have shown they don't want Kate or Charlie, and don't like Jack, as evidenced by Mr. Friendly (aka Zeke). Thoughts?

Yeah but what makes you a bad one killing some one? I dont remember Jack doing something bad in the flashbacks. Does it count how you lived your life before the crash. Kate killed a guy, Sawyer has alot off sins (and we know he killed at least one person), Jin worked for a Mafia boss (so he probably killed) , Charlie killed Ethan, Echo killed alot off people and Ana too.

[Nyarlathotep]

I don't think it's as simple as who has done good and bad things - it seems to be about those who can be redeemed and those that can't. They tried to take Eko who had been a very very bad man but was trying to find redemption. The children are largely innocent anyway hence they have all been taken.
It's kind of interesting how many of the tailies were taken compared to the fusies now I think about it - seems most of the bad ones were in the fuselage...

As for the ep... I've thought for some time that there are multiple tribes of Others out there (though the disguises in the medical hatch kind of changed my mind on that one) - but this ep got me thinking again that there might be at least 2 (perhaps the disguises are used to infiltrate the other groups like they tried to do with Henry...).

And as for Michael... well, to me it looks like they have made a deal with him - Walt stays safe if you execute Ana-Lucia (for killing 2 of them, 2 good ones according to what Henry said), get Not Henry out and either retrieve something from the hatch guarded by the other Others or as others have said here, lead your leaders into a trap
He certainly didn't seem brainwashed and I would say has certainly made a strong enough connection with his son that he would do anything to keep him safe.

Oh, and I think Libby will live despite being shot twice in the blankets

[Jonzey]

You guys remember when the guys from the tail were crossing the island and they saw those weird kids with no shoes and the teddy covered in wire?

I'm willing to bet that they are different others. The beardy guy's others, as we know, can move very quickly and quietly, they're smart and organised, and are not seen unless they want to be. Plus I'd still think they'd wear shoes, just so they don't step on sharp rocks and stuff. I mean, if they're posing as poor people, they could still wear shoes. Who would notice?

[memnarch]

IMHO, telling locke that he's 'one of the good ones' is just another way to divide the losties.

if locke believes that he's good, then someone must be bad...and being 'good' can be used to justify locke's actions to himself

all along, henry has played the losties against each other. he keeps them separate, keeps them at odds, keeps them fighting...keeps them keeping secrets

'divided they fall'

divided they can't discuss and think and come up with any good ideas or solid theories

I agree that's very possible, but what about Goodwin's comments to Ana Lucia about the good ones? He was either going to kill her or take her so he wouldn't have wanted to divide her with anyone, would he?

[Primus Commander Woden]

wait a mo, you cant beleive anythign they say they were goign to kill claire and take her baby...they are the bad ones

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

<nods in agreement> Goodwin killed the guy AL had in the pit and Ethon as much as killed Charlie and succeeded in killing Scott(... Steve? )

It's likely that the real Henry Gale was murdered by the Others, too.

I don't think that "good" has anything to do with morality, on this island.

As for the guy Goodwin killed, anyone else think that he was a Dharma agent after all, but one who, having been caught, had failed at his mission and therefore was shown no mercy? As Not Henry said, their leader is not a forgiving person.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Another quick question: What, exactly, did Not Henry say to AL about her being savable? I thought Not Henry said that Goodwin had argued in her favor before the leader and that he was perhaps given the chance to bring her back.

As to what Micheal did to AL, even though he said he was sorry, I think he executed her, not merely killed her to clear a path for Not Henry's escape. "I'm sorry" can mean a lot of things; "I'm sorry it had to come to this," or "I'm sorry but you're just not good enough." It doesn't have to mean, "I'm sorry; I know what I'm doing is wrong. I hate myself for doing this." Nor do I think the writers would choose such an easy (IMO, cheesy) plot device.

Just as Boone saw wierd stuff and reacted to it as though it was all real, just as Locke, Charlie, Eko and who knows how many more, so, too, I think Micheal is seeing an unreal scenario but with real consequences.

[Primus Commander Woden]

i like that idea, i truely dont beleive michael wanted to kill anyone he was shaking to much to of had it all planned out, i think he would rather have been on his own and shoot himself and let henry go and make the others go to war with him>..however he really did look suprised to see Libby and didnt want to shoot her...as for AL it is also possible that Michael hasnt realised she was one of the good guys seeing as when he left, she had just shoot Shannon and it is possible he still held resentment against her.....just a thought

[TrustNo1]

It's all the aliens' plan

[Jonzey]

It's all the aliens' plan

You think Michael has fallen to the will of the Ori?

[TrustNo1]

No! I'm not into cross show contamination >.<

[Naonak]

I hope Libby isn't dead - not because I particularly like her (although I don't dislike her), but because I wanna know why she was in the nuthouse!
I think Michael killed Ana-Lucia to try and get the others (no, not those Others) on his side to go and save Walt, by framing Henry Gale and making the Others (yes, those Others) seem more evil. That he shot himself in the shoulder backs this up.

Also, how brilliantly did Terry O'Quinn deliver that line? "I need to tell you something." Brilliant.