Hell Bent (3512 / 912)

[rushy]

The Doctor's attitude in this episode was bizarre. It's like he doesn't even care that he got back to Gallifrey.

[Ian-S]

I'm afraid this is as much as I have come to expect from Moffat, he seems to have these fantastic ideas for storylines but an absolutely terrible way of presenting them, leaves way too much open to interpretation andwhen anybody points out huge great plot holes to him his answer is 'we're not going to wrap everything up into a nice neat bow for you', to me that's a sign of lazy story writing.

I can imagine he has the beginning and end mapped out and no ideas how to fill in the bits in between, so just, to coin a phrase, makes **** up and hopes nobody notices the flaws.

[Sealurk]

Hell Bent's first twenty minutes were phenomenal. In fact, I'd go further than that - anything and everything Gallifreyan in Hell Bent was excellent - but my main criticism was that after such a long build up it should have been the focus of pretty much the entire episode. Imagine if that first twenty minutes or so - the Doctor returning to Gallifrey and immediately setting about wresting control away from Rassilon and the High Council - was expanded into an entire episode.

I'm afraid this is as much as I have come to expect from Moffat, he seems to have these fantastic ideas for storylines but an absolutely terrible way of presenting them, leaves way too much open to interpretation andwhen anybody points out huge great plot holes to him his answer is 'we're not going to wrap everything up into a nice neat bow for you', to me that's a sign of lazy story writing.

I can imagine he has the beginning and end mapped out and no ideas how to fill in the bits in between, so just, to coin a phrase, makes **** up and hopes nobody notices the flaws.

I used to be the number one Moffat fan, back when he wrote one or two episodes a series and outside of Doctor Who was writing things like Jekyll and Coupling, but since he's become showrunner I do feel his ability has decayed somewhat with each season, and I think it boils down to him being overworked. He's contributed massively to Who - in terms of monsters alone he's given us the Vashta Nerada, the Weeping Angels, the Silents - and he's responsible for a number of truly iconic episodes, but I think he's running out of ideas or simply can't spend as much time on his episodes as they need in order to fill in the plot holes.

As an example, Heaven Sent was, for me, one of his best and the best episodes of Doctor Who I've yet seen, and shows what Moffat can do even now, but he loses his way with his characters - I don't know about anybody else but it feels like he tries too hard with them some time.

[Flyboy]

Hell Bent's first twenty minutes were phenomenal. In fact, I'd go further than that - anything and everything Gallifreyan in Hell Bent was excellent - but my main criticism was that after such a long build up it should have been the focus of pretty much the entire episode. Imagine if that first twenty minutes or so - the Doctor returning to Gallifrey and immediately setting about wresting control away from Rassilon and the High Council - was expanded into an entire episode.



I used to be the number one Moffat fan, back when he wrote one or two episodes a series and outside of Doctor Who was writing things like Jekyll and Coupling, but since he's become showrunner I do feel his ability has decayed somewhat with each season, and I think it boils down to him being overworked. He's contributed massively to Who - in terms of monsters alone he's given us the Vashta Nerada, the Weeping Angels, the Silents - and he's responsible for a number of truly iconic episodes, but I think he's running out of ideas or simply can't spend as much time on his episodes as they need in order to fill in the plot holes.

As an example, Heaven Sent was, for me, one of his best and the best episodes of Doctor Who I've yet seen, and shows what Moffat can do even now, but he loses his way with his characters - I don't know about anybody else but it feels like he tries too hard with them some time.

Seconded.

I was thoroughly loving Hell Bent until the resurrection of Clara, and then it was only tiny little tid bits that I enjoyed - such as the classic TARDIS or seeing the matrix...

[knowles2]

Seeing Gallifrey was great and for a while the episode felt to me like the setup for a truly epic story revolving around the hybrid prophecy and a major clash with Rassilon, especially when the Doctor orders him off the planet.


.

I think that was certainly set up for the next big clash. The Doctor exiling the high council and Rassilon off world, there was even a hint he was sending them to their deaths as there no resources out there.

I wish we got a bit more world building here ready for there return and we saw more of Gallifrey.

I think it was a shame the Doctor killed that general, it means next time he unlikely to be facing a sympathetic army that is more loyal to him than there own government, which I think is a bit of a setback for the show.

The Doctor's attitude in this episode was bizarre. It's like he doesn't even care that he got back to Gallifrey.

He didn't because they killed his best friend at least in his eyes and all he cared about was saving her, even at the cost of himself.

[pjt]

I never would have thought this episode was considered this complicated. It helped watching it twice, it really did, and it all really fits. Throwing "plot holes" at it won't even make a dent.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

As an example, Heaven Sent was, for me, one of his best and the best episodes of Doctor Who I've yet seen, and shows what Moffat can do even now, but he loses his way with his characters - I don't know about anybody else but it feels like he tries too hard with them some time.

I think he gets too attached to his characters. He hasn't really killed any of them. Amy and Rory "died", but after a long life off screen. And now zombie Clara is out there in the universe because he couldn't commit to his first real character death.

Someone needs to call Joss Whedon so he can show Moffat how it's done

Whedon!!! How dare you kill Wash like that!! *shakes cane*

[rushy]

He didn't because they killed his best friend at least in his eyes and all he cared about was saving her, even at the cost of himself.

No offense, but if I returned to Earth after thousands of years and some government official killed my best friend, I'd deal with that(and the Doctor ousted Rassilon) and then get to work REUNITING WITH MY HOME PLANET.

[P-90_177]

No offense, but if I returned to Earth after thousands of years and some government official killed my best friend, I'd deal with that(and the Doctor ousted Rassilon) and then get to work REUNITING WITH MY HOME PLANET.

The Doctor would always choose his companions over Gallifrey. He'd rather risk never finding Gallifrey again and being exiled than not save a companion.

[Gatefan1976]

So...........
Hmm........
I have watched this twice now, I even re watched all of this season to get a full view of the arc involved, and I have to say............
I'm not overly impressed.
Don't get me wrong, as an Episode -removed from all context- it is an OK, if not good episode. We get to see Gallifrey again, and it maintains the continunity of what we have seen in NuWho. There are fan callbacks to traditional Who, which is nice, and everything makes a certain sense when viewed through the idea's being presented. Even the "madness" the Doctor displays in killing the General and going to extreme lengths to recover Clara makes a certain sense if you think of it in terms of the history presented in the episode last time he was in the Cloister (going slightly mad), and his anger over being tortured for billions of years.

However:-
Inside the context of the series, I thought if fell flat on its butt.
2 more episodes of Clara -after- her death was just trite and really cheapened Clara's sacrifice in Face the Raven. Yes, Heaven Sent had little screen time with Clara, but the -whole impetus- of the episode was based on Clara. Let her Die FFS!!
Giving Clara The Restaurant at the End of the Universe as a Tardis was a -crap- callback to Douglass Adams having written for Who (and even if it was not meant to be seen in that way, it was still noticeable enough).
Ashilder/Me..........
Dear lord, 3 Episodes all but wasted on her, and she is not even going to be a companion, but to serve as another crappy conscience for the Doctor? (oh and tease the half Time lord/ half Human stuff from the movie??)
Really?
Was it needed?

Is it just me, or would Hell Bent, with a different script excluding Clara as a season opening just have been...... Better?
Rather than wasting Gallifrey on a one shot, we could have seen something great on Gallifrey, harkening back to Trial of a Timelord, or the Deadly Assassin. A few eps where Capaldi could show off his ability to actually -be- the solo doctor for a short while, or at least "companionless" for a bit. Make the On screen regeneration of a Time Lord from male to Female -actually- worth a damn?
Just so much wasted potential

[aretood2]

I think he gets too attached to his characters. He hasn't really killed any of them. Amy and Rory "died", but after a long life off screen. And now zombie Clara is out there in the universe because he couldn't commit to his first real character death.

Someone needs to call Joss Whedon so he can show Moffat how it's done

Whedon!!! How dare you kill Wash like that!! *shakes cane*

Silly PH, you are thinking of GRR Martin. Now that guy can kill off beloved characters like no one's business.

Anyway, here's my take of things:

Fifteen minutes in it became obvious that this was a send off for Clara (or was it 20? I forget). I do feel cheated that Gallifrey was kinda...not really dealt with. Also, I found it hard to accept how inept the Timelords felt...they are the Doctor's people and yet somehow it feels like UNIT has a better hold of the Doctor than his own people. Now Clara...I am a fan.

I liked Clara because she was different. The Doctor was becoming crazy insane big for my taste, and then comes Clara. A little human who starts calling him out and treating him like an equal (and he accepts it). It brought him down from that weird level that he was elevating to and I liked it. I also enjoyed her as a character, she was fun. Amy and Rory didn't manage that, Donna kinda did, and Rose seemed like a pet to me. I'm forgetting someone...

So I liked how it ended. Now, the universe is a big place and time is very very...timey. So it is easy to accept that they'll never cross paths again.

Now I would love to see the Timelords take an active role in the universe again. Bring the Doctor back to more local level adventures. If the whole universe needs saving, there is an entire race of time travelers that can handle it (and seeing that would be cool).

[Coco Pops]

What I would love to see more of are battles from the past like the great vampire wars, and the bowships and stuff that the Timelords used to hunt them down.

[cosmichobo]

I think as was kind of hinted at - the Doctor may be a Time Lord, from a race of Time Lords, but the Doctor has spent his life "out there", and as has been hinted at - he's "more than just a Time Lord". He has grown more capable, despite the Time Lord's tech.

And again as shown - he can accomplish things without a weapon. (What he did do with a weapon in this ep reallllllly disgusted me... What if he'd said he was on his last?...)

[rushy]

The Doctor would always choose his companions over Gallifrey. He'd rather risk never finding Gallifrey again and being exiled than not save a companion.

Fair enough, I suppose, but the way the episode presented it really left me feeling betrayed. They didn't emphasize the reason why the Doctor would bring Clara back quite enough and made them both look incredibly selfish as far as I'm concerned. Seriously, what was up with shooting the General?

If they had made Gallifrey look a bit more hostile a la End Of Time and made the Doctor an outlaw again, then I'd buy it. But the Doctor has not been hope for 2000 years, half of which he spent believing his people were dead. After he beated Rassilon(far too easily btw), he should've properly reunited with the Gallifreyans, helped them out of trouble and then go and sneak off in a TARDIS again. Instead, he just abandoned them.

[thenimf]

Seriously, what was up with shooting the General?

Missy pointed out that everyone's a Hybrid now "the friend in the enemy, the enemy in the friend".

Also, the General was quite sympathetic to the Doctor knowing he would be shot. He even said good luck. Once she regenerated, she clearly stated that being a male was a one-off oddity for her _ "Back to normal am I? The entire time I was a man in that last body... dear god how do you cope with all that ego?". The male general may possibly even just have been her own War General incarnation for the Time War.