Asylum of the Daleks (3301/701)

[Teddybrown]

Just looking at the press release and what Moffat says about Jennas character and this sticks out

Who she’s playing, how the Doctor meets her, and even where he finds her, are all part of one of the biggest mysteries the Time Lord ever encounters. Even by the Doctor’s standards, this isn’t your usual boy meets girl.”

Maybe the story is the Doctor finds her at a time in her past and its him finding out that this is this girl from the Asylum...

If this doesnt make sense, its late...

[Flyboy]

Just looking at the press release and what Moffat says about Jennas character and this sticks out



Maybe the story is the Doctor finds her at a time in her past and its him finding out that this is this girl from the Asylum...

If this doesnt make sense, its late...

I dunno... that's TOO River Song for me...

[DigiFluid]

according to Moffat there are to be no arcs this year...

Oh I wish people would stop saying this. He said no two-parters, he didn't say there would be no arcs.

[Kyarra]

Great episode, although I'm probably going to watch it again tonight just to absorb all the timey wimey goodness! Lots of plot twists I didn't see coming, which is always nice!

[DigiFluid]

Yes...I just watched it for the second time tonight. Loved it

[Cold Fuzz]

Thoughts:

• Skaro! I like...
• Human-shaped Dalek infiltrators? Ok, that's a little creepy.
• Hmm, new titles. Not so keen.
• Wait... what? Jenna Louise-Coleman is in episode one? Oswin the Souffle Girl? Also, I like her!
• "Don't be fair to the Daleks when they're firing me at a planet!"
• Why is a wet, dark hallway of dead Daleks somehow creepier than live ones?
• Calling it now: Oswin is
  Spoiler:

  a Dalek infiltrator who went a bit wrong.
• Nanocloud... yep, that's creepy. Oh, and it got creepier with Dalek zombies. Kudos, Mr Moffat.
• "Careful dear, you'll put someone's eye out." Yes, I definitely like her.
• "Because we've had this conversation four times."
• "I'm looking for reverse!"
• Oh... so that's why the Ponds are having problems. Poor Amy.
• Good old Oswin Oswald... but I will be very interested to find out how she becomes the Doctor's new companion!!

Okay, I liked it. It wasn't utterly magnificent, but it was pretty good. Some new developments for the Daleks that might improve them quite a bit.

Watching this episode was... delicious, like eating a sumptuous meal. Immediately upon finishing the episode, I watched it again on the DVR to savor the seconds from the meal.

While the entire episode was quite strong, I thought there were several moments I thought were exceptional:

• Skaro. The CGI was magnificent and I wanted to see more of the planet.
• The Parliament of the Daleks--I watched the scenes at the Parliament three times to soak in the nuances of the sets. I especially liked, "He asked the Daleks."
• Hatred is beautiful: The concept is dark, primal, and so wonderfully Dalek. And the Doctor's response to the idea was brilliantly executed. Moffat truly excelled with the dialogue there.
• The fallout from the Battle of Demon's Run: Emotionally devastating and wonderfully performed. It makes total sense how being sterile would affect Amy & Rory's relationship. More than ever, I hope the Silence gets dealt with. River, Amy, and Rory have suffered way too much for Moffat to just drop all of that material.
• "Doctor Who?" at the end with the Daleks and the Doctor... as Flyboy mentioned, it seems like a setup for the Fields of Trenzalore.

[Teddybrown]

I dunno... that's TOO River Song for me...

Yeah, I suppose your right, didnt think about that...

[Reefgirl]

I take it Amy's modlling career was a hangover/precursor to Karen Gillan playing Jean Shrimpton in We'll Take Manhatten

[jameshawking]

Am I the only person who is unsettled and disturbed by how easily and freely Moffat just re-writes not only basic tenets of the damn show, but also what happened during his own reign on Doctor Who?

-The supreme genetically pure and perfect Daleks, who had no hesitation when blowing up "old daleks" even though said daleks were successful...immediately went about and made about 1% "Red" and 99% "old daleks". Why the hell do they make impure, defective Daleks?

-Things survived the Time War? Seriously? I understand how you pull that line for big guys like Davros or Dalek Khan, and even on "Dalek" which was just a one-off thing while the show was just getting started....but no. There's an entire Ward devoted to Daleks who survived the Time War and went completely mad. Firstly, how did so many survive? How the hell, and who the hell, corraled them?

-...The Daleks have a Parliament, and hence politics? what the hell? Since when were the universal Nazis, created and designed and successful as uniform, unthinking killing machines of a galactic level, diverse enough to have politics beyond "we listen to X". The entire point of the cult of Skaro was that they were special [i]because[/u] they had disagreements and actual free thought. Now every one of them has it.

-I understand that Moffat is determined to change things around for new viewers, but what about the fans who, frankly, actually liked how the old show went? I literally, after the end of the episode, sat there and just brooded over what the hell was happening. You can't "humanize the Daleks" as they wanted to. Half of their effectiveness is that they aren't anything like us. Humanizing them removes that initial cloak of terror caused by the "them vs us" that is a basic component of all successful fear in media.

-This may be my own personal lack of knowledge of Old-Who, but since when were the Daleks akin to the Cybermen in that they can just grab you and make you into a Dalek? And if that's an old thing, why the hell did they even kill Time Lords? But whatever

-That's not even touching on the fundamental change of the dynamics of the "forgetting".


I liked the Rory/Amy drama, of course, and enjoyed the actual emotion, but I still think Rory's right.

"Oh I gave you up a few months ago. It hurts."

2,000 years is 2,000 years, woman. Stop being the emotionally conceited woman you are for once.

I, frankly, am just entirely put off by the smack in the face of these "new daleks" that don't even make sense in Moffat's own canon, ignoring the past of them. I can understand Moffat trying something new, sure, but that doesn't mean he can just re-write almost everything about them and receive universal praise for it. It's another example of Moffat having a good idea and just screwing it up royally on the delivery when he actually tries to do it, which is a hallmark of most of his work.

[TryWhistlingThis]

What an amazing episode to launch the new series. Easily the best Dalek episode since 'Dalek' because of the engaging story attached to it. I always found that the Tennant era Dalek episodes put too much emphasis on the spectacle. With Asylum, we got the best of both worlds. That is, an action packed Dalek episode with a really engrossing story complete with a couple of plot twists, one of which may concern a future companion.

Gone are the days where the Daleks can be scary since there's only so many things that they can say or do in their iconic appearance. It's really more of a question as to whether we can take them seriously. After watching Asylum, it was the best treatment of the Daleks since the Eccleston story, 'Dalek' because we got a much better sense of why they're a threat. The CGI was minimal which meant that, generally, the less is more approach was taken rather than having millions of Daleks flying through the air only to be defeated by the flip of a lever as seen in the two part finale of series 2. In Asylum, that sense of threat and danger was brought back where it had been absent for their last few appearances.

5 out of 5

[Matt G]

Well...

1. Dalek infiltrators...freaky.

2. "Save the Daleks". Ok...fine...

3. "WRONG WAY UP...NO...."

4. "I forgot about dying" One of who's nuttier lines.

5. Is that the new girl...that is the new girl...or at the actress...woah...couldn't remember the name of Coleman's main char so wasn't sure who Osmi was meant to be.

Who back with a bang.

[FennerMachine]

On the whole I found the episode entertaining, which, when you think about it is what it is for.
Just to answer a couple of points jameshawking made:
The Daleks did have Robomen in Classic Who. They where humans converted to slaves but not as thoroughly as in this episode. If this episode is set way in the future then there techniques should have improved.
The special weapons Dalek first seen in 'Remembrance of the Daleks' is supposedly a 'mutant' Dalek, different from the others. So where it suits there purpose they have kept impure Daleks in Classic Who.

[Flyboy]

Am I the only person who is unsettled and disturbed by how easily and freely Moffat just re-writes not only basic tenets of the damn show, but also what happened during his own reign on Doctor Who?

-The supreme genetically pure and perfect Daleks, who had no hesitation when blowing up "old daleks" even though said daleks were successful...immediately went about and made about 1% "Red" and 99% "old daleks". Why the hell do they make impure, defective Daleks?

-Things survived the Time War? Seriously? I understand how you pull that line for big guys like Davros or Dalek Khan, and even on "Dalek" which was just a one-off thing while the show was just getting started....but no. There's an entire Ward devoted to Daleks who survived the Time War and went completely mad. Firstly, how did so many survive? How the hell, and who the hell, corraled them?

-...The Daleks have a Parliament, and hence politics? what the hell? Since when were the universal Nazis, created and designed and successful as uniform, unthinking killing machines of a galactic level, diverse enough to have politics beyond "we listen to X". The entire point of the cult of Skaro was that they were special [i]because[/u] they had disagreements and actual free thought. Now every one of them has it.

-I understand that Moffat is determined to change things around for new viewers, but what about the fans who, frankly, actually liked how the old show went? I literally, after the end of the episode, sat there and just brooded over what the hell was happening. You can't "humanize the Daleks" as they wanted to. Half of their effectiveness is that they aren't anything like us. Humanizing them removes that initial cloak of terror caused by the "them vs us" that is a basic component of all successful fear in media.

-This may be my own personal lack of knowledge of Old-Who, but since when were the Daleks akin to the Cybermen in that they can just grab you and make you into a Dalek? And if that's an old thing, why the hell did they even kill Time Lords? But whatever

-That's not even touching on the fundamental change of the dynamics of the "forgetting".


I liked the Rory/Amy drama, of course, and enjoyed the actual emotion, but I still think Rory's right.

"Oh I gave you up a few months ago. It hurts."

2,000 years is 2,000 years, woman. Stop being the emotionally conceited woman you are for once.

I, frankly, am just entirely put off by the smack in the face of these "new daleks" that don't even make sense in Moffat's own canon, ignoring the past of them. I can understand Moffat trying something new, sure, but that doesn't mean he can just re-write almost everything about them and receive universal praise for it. It's another example of Moffat having a good idea and just screwing it up royally on the delivery when he actually tries to do it, which is a hallmark of most of his work.

James, you're quite right on many subjects.

Victory of the Daleks made such a big deal about the new dalek paradigm, and then all of a sudden we're face with, once again, Time War daleks. I thought the whole point of the new dalek paradigm was a fresh start, enabling the daleks to once again become a master-race throughout the universe without the constant ties of 'how did they survive the time war' things... I'm not sure why we've stepped backwards for this to be honest. I can accept the the dalek empire has been rebuilt but still...

I must admit... the dalek's political structure is starting to confuse me. Generally speaking there's either been a Dalek Emperor or Davros at the top of the political structure. I can only presume that the parliament is not quite how we'd see a parliament, though the presence of a prime minister is confusing... I'd like to know more, but ultimately it doesn't strike me as very dalek...

There are a good deal of explanations as to how the Asylum survived, heck, why would anyone even touch it? What I find more confusing is how Skaro survived, I was pretty sure that Skaro had burned in the Time War... actually... wasn't it destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks...?

The conversion of Oswin into a dalek has some level of precedence... we know that daleks are essentially made from *anything*. The daleks of 'Parting of the Ways' were made from the genetic waste of pulped up humans. The daleks of 'Journey's End' were made from the flesh of Davros. There is a precedence for stripping away humanity to create 'human-daleks' as indicated by the dalek infiltrators of this episode, the human-daleks in 'Daleks in Manhattan' and, to a lesser extent, the Robomen of the 'Dalek Invasion of Earth'. This *IS* admittadly new, and reeks of desperation, but it seems to me that it was done by the daleks actually IN the asylum, as we KNOW Oswin actually crashed on that planet and escaped whilst ON that planet. There's no evidence to suggest she went any where else, suggesting it's not standard practice to 'convert' a human in such a way. Thus she was a product of some of the more deranged daleks in existence. As there's already a precedent for stripping away the humanity of mankind to create a dalek pscyhe, I see little problem in going a step further and trying to add into that a greater deal of further dalek genetic coding in order to make her physiologically a dalek as well as psychologically... I'd be MORE concerned if it was an officially sanctioned procedure, however...

Forgetting the Doctor though? Not impressed at that...

Nor do I appreciate Amy constantly down playing Rory's sacrifice of 2000 years....

[iJOKE]

i have a theory to the oswin thing:

Spoiler:

1. Osmin tells the doctor to remember her, but because she is a dalek.. he won't be able to remember her..which is why she needs to return.

Spoiler:

2. She somehow becomes human again.. and travels with the doctor.. highly unlikely but anything could happen

Spoiler:

3. She is trapped in a computer.. and doesn't really exist (though that card has been played before!)

I favour 1 though.. makes most sense..but when it comes to moffat nothing is ever simple.

[P-90_177]

Am I the only person who is unsettled and disturbed by how easily and freely Moffat just re-writes not only basic tenets of the damn show, but also what happened during his own reign on Doctor Who?

-The supreme genetically pure and perfect Daleks, who had no hesitation when blowing up "old daleks" even though said daleks were successful...immediately went about and made about 1% "Red" and 99% "old daleks". Why the hell do they make impure, defective Daleks?

-Things survived the Time War? Seriously? I understand how you pull that line for big guys like Davros or Dalek Khan, and even on "Dalek" which was just a one-off thing while the show was just getting started....but no. There's an entire Ward devoted to Daleks who survived the Time War and went completely mad. Firstly, how did so many survive? How the hell, and who the hell, corraled them?

-...The Daleks have a Parliament, and hence politics? what the hell? Since when were the universal Nazis, created and designed and successful as uniform, unthinking killing machines of a galactic level, diverse enough to have politics beyond "we listen to X". The entire point of the cult of Skaro was that they were special [i]because[/u] they had disagreements and actual free thought. Now every one of them has it.

-I understand that Moffat is determined to change things around for new viewers, but what about the fans who, frankly, actually liked how the old show went? I literally, after the end of the episode, sat there and just brooded over what the hell was happening. You can't "humanize the Daleks" as they wanted to. Half of their effectiveness is that they aren't anything like us. Humanizing them removes that initial cloak of terror caused by the "them vs us" that is a basic component of all successful fear in media.

-This may be my own personal lack of knowledge of Old-Who, but since when were the Daleks akin to the Cybermen in that they can just grab you and make you into a Dalek? And if that's an old thing, why the hell did they even kill Time Lords? But whatever

-That's not even touching on the fundamental change of the dynamics of the "forgetting".

I had this conversation with a friend of mine who was watching it with me and we pretty much agreed that while the Daleks are largely using the old style armor, chances are the being inside them are genetically pure. The new multi-coloured Daleks are the most powerful yet but I'm sure it's merely useful to use the older armor for grunts.
Or alternatively it could simply be a case that the Dalek paradigm realised that it would take far too long to build up an empire by creating whole new Daleks from scratch and so sought out the older ones.
At the end of the day though the simple production stand point still remains that it costs a bloody lot of money to build all new Daleks.

As for the Dalek parliament, this makes perfect sense to me. It probably isn't a parliament in our sense of the word but given that the Daleks must control hundreds of worlds, even now, would it not make sense to have Representatives from those worlds gather in order for decisions to be made that effect the whole Empire? Or if nothing else the Daleks have shown before that they have a weird sense of ceremony.

Also it has been shown on many occasions that Daleks can convert other races into Daleks. It was even shown to happen in the new show at the end of Eccleston's tenure. It just doesn't happen very often. But that is how Davros converted the Kaled race to begin with.