Maelstrom (317)

[the fifth man]

I agree with everyone about the visuals in this episode. They were great. They must have been saving up some money for this one.

As for Kara, I definitely think we'll be seeing her again. There is so much more to this and what went on with her.

[Alastair]

Personally I was severely disappointed in this episode on a number of levels. The only up side I saw was the improved CGI shots. The whole mythical/spirtual connection with the final 5 Cylons, Starbuck, Baltar, ect...ad naseum is plain stupid as a plot device.

For those who are clinging to the ejector seat lever as a prayer that Starbuck is still alive I dont see that being all that likely. The way I saw it was another attempt for her to 'run away from her fear of death' which everyone was talking about. Not to mention that while yes, the seat rockets do fire, the viper cockpit was not facing upward...she would've been (at best) shot in a sideways direction for the nano second she could've survived at that pressure (remember it crushed the SHIP, she was already too deep in).

[Merlin's_Legacy]

You know there's something to Leoben's "This has all happened before" comment.

Don't know if any of you are old enough to remember the Original BSG (With Dirk Benedict as Starbuck) but this actually DID happen on that series as well. Starbuck crashes on a planet all by himself and is "gone" for a long time. He finds a broken cylon,repairs it, then reprograms it to be a servant and manages to survive for a while. Somewhere along the way Starbuck finds a woman on the planet and impregnates her (of course). They eventually track down the Cylon's broken ship (as I remember it) and use parts from Starbuck's crashed viper to repair the cylon ship then (or vice versa) then he and the pregnant woman head back to Gallactica where she gives birth to "Dr. Z" who leads them to Earth.

Everything in this re-make so far has followed closely to the plot lines of the original. This can't be much different. She'll be gone for a while then be back to lead the way to earth in some way or antoher.

[Toaster Roaster]

Could the original heavy raider contact been a fig mate of Starbucks imagination and the second heavy raider contact been the real thing.

If Starbuck is really dead and gone for good this was a horrible was to go out…

O yeah I forget what happened to the two people in the picture that Lee wanted his picture placed next to if he “bought it”

PS. Mrs. Thrace reminds me of my parents. They didn't physically abuse me more like psychological abuse amongst other things....

By the way do gas giants have "surfaces" like terrestrial planets? I understand the hard deck was the place where the pressure became to great for the viper to maintain structural integrity....

[bhandel58]

I loved it! Great episode. Never saw it coming ( I don't look for spoilers). Almost as good as B5. Love this show (along with Rome). Ron Moore, you are a genius!. What cast member's name is pulled from the next 3 eps? I wish they would make a baseball cap for BSG. I'm still stunned. Wow. Thank you for keeping me on the edge of my seat!

[chris777]

Well I am now convinced that these people have a slightly less detailed overall story arc, than say George lucas did on his prequels, they put out like they have a "plan" but considering that there were all these rumors, that the "farm" Eggs would come back in this season, as well as Athenas baby,
Too bad that last weeks episode, turned out to be one of the best of the season, to be followed by an episode that took an hour to say what 60 seconds could have done just as effectively. They pulled all this soap opera garbage, this season, drew it out for at least 4 episodes, then draw this stuff out even more in tonights episode to telly us absolutely nothing, other than the allusion she could be a cylon(which interestingly enough is one of the predictions they made early this season that have not been fufilled, there is still one finding earth, one a cylon, and I cant remember what else after being so numbed with the quarto tetradupulon ogram Ship fest. I personally am coming away with the distinct feeling the writers could come up with nothing to write for starbuck, and when they turned to daytime soap operas for inspiration, an sackoff called them on it in her interviews, they canned her.

Something really smells and it aint fish.

[Hatusu]

*points to my first post*

Im starting to feel like im the only one who caught that whole between life and death line leoban said and its connection to #3 who also talked alot about that place while she was finding the identities of the final 5

I caught that, but I didn't know where to throw it. Will she be dressed in a sparkly white uniform and meet sparkly white aliens? Patrick MacNee hasn't shown up yet!

[ToasterOnFire]

For the record, those that have freeze-framed the final explosion report that the canopy of Starbuck's ship was not off before the boom, hence she did not eject. I think at this point she's dead, evolved, or hybrid/cylon unless TPTB retcon the whole thing later.

Also, Leoben/Kara is 1000 times hotter than Kara/Lee or Kara/anyone for that matter. Whew!

[DeltaWhiskey]

By the way do gas giants have "surfaces" like terrestrial planets? I understand the hard deck was the place where the pressure became to great for the viper to maintain structural integrity....

Yay, more button pushing!

Umm, not a whole lot is known for sure about gas giant makeup, but the theory is that at a certain depth into the gaseous upper atmosphere (generally hydrogen and helium in our local system, with minute traces of others), there is a gradual progression to a liquid state, varying layers of each. Further down, the hydrogen component changes from a molecular makeup to metallic hydrogen, possibly moving from liquid to solid state. At the core, it is suggested that there may be a rocky mass, perhaps ~3 earth diameters. Needless to say, someone crashing on a gas giant would cease to be in a recognisable form long, long before reaching this "surface".

[Hatusu]

Very interesting episode, my theory is that:

Spoiler:

Head Leoben was a Fiver, going to her ala Oma/Daniel, to test her and see if she was worthy and special enough to enter the "Cloud of Unknown", the place that "Lies between life and death."

This being the same place where they are ("They're waiting for me"), and where she will join them in something like "ascension", but not exactly.

Both the phrases "Cloud of Unknown" and "What lies between life and death." have been used by Cylons on this season before to refer to the Cylon Afterlife, or whatever it is they go to, where the Final Five are, which is what sparked my theory.

I dunno, just a theory, which I've expanded on this thread.

...but...but Leoben is an obsessed kidnapper rapist. I suppose all of them might not be crazy, but how could one be her Oma? Yuck. Ick.

[kharn the betrayer]

...but...but Leoben is an obsessed kidnapper rapist. I suppose all of them might not be crazy, but how could one be her Oma? Yuck. Ick.

lets not forget Leoban is also proberbly the most spiritual of the known cylons (which is funny as Cavil is the priest XD) so it is possible

and he has been talking about her destiny for god knows how long now so I wasnt exactly surprised when I saw him in her head...

wait is it me or is every one and their mother getting head people now

first Baltar and head Six

then Six and head Baltar

then Adama and his ex wife

now Kara and Leoban


whats next Saul and Head Ellen?

[spunknugget]

Kara: You're not Leoben.
Leoben-looking dude: I never said I was (and some crap about being her to help her between worlds)

Is this dude a god or what?

Other thought: She was reaching at one point for her ejector during one shot there, I have to wonder if one of those things flying away was her out of the explosion. I just ran it back on the tivo and I think I see the windscreen fly away to the right and I think I see her seat maybe her head in it too...

Other thought: There's a reason her hellmom would want her so tough, to be be able to withstand the pressure on that planet. And lets face it no one is tougher than Kara.

Is she a cyclon? No. I think the path requires one of each kind, human and cylon. D'anna might have been the Cylon chosen, but i think not, I think we'll see for sure soon.


God I love this show. (maybe more than B5 right now, and never thought i'd say that)

[Trek_Girl42]

Kara: You're not Leoben.

Leoben-looking dude: I never said I was (and some crap about being her to help her between worlds)

Is this dude a god or what?

Was thinking the same thing. *crosses fingers that if Kara comes back we'll see more of this head-"Leoben".

[Gate gal]

The show jumped the shark when it skipped a year. I'm completely unimpressed at the moment. The first half the episode was a bore, and I nearly turned off the set. I'm glad I didn't, because I'd have missed Kara's 'death' but please! If she is really dead then there just isn't much hope for the show (IMO). I'm kind of relieved that season 4 is only going to be 13 episodes.

Having said that, I hope she isn't dead and this is the big plot device for season 4.
Speculation, spoilers for season 3, and its a little negative.

Spoiler:

Baby Hera's home, so that plot is gone. Chief and Callie are pretty solid at the moment, so there is no story there. The horrid quadrangle has been resolved. Adama and Roslin are really close to being 'together' (which is good), so there isn't a lot of conflict between them. Adama is at peace with his son and his XO. Besides the trial (which I'm assuming will be over this season), what do they really have left. The search for earth? Not much to that at the moment (Kara's real purpose?). The cylons? Not seeing much of them. If Kara's death isn't a plot device for next season then BSG's really got nothing. I'm just not sure what to think at the moment.

[ShadowMaat]

Have you ever noticed that when a beloved character dies, no matter WHAT the circumstances are people always scream that it was stupid and pointless? A character could die saving an entire planet full of kittens and orphans and the death would still be stupid and pointless. Just a random observation.

I wish I hadn't known ahead of time that Kara was going to die because it took some of the shock value away from it. However, it was still hard to work up a lot of grief because A) I was never a big Starbuck fan anyway and B) I seriously doubt this is the last we've seen of her.

There have been hints dropped lately that the Final Five Cylons might be connected to the Five Whatevers of Colonial mythology. I think Kara's going to figure into this. I don't know that she's necessarily a Cylon, though, she could be the flipside of that coin- the Colonial version (assuming that they are, in fact, different). Or maybe she's something completely different. *shrug*

I'm also curious about the significance of the fact that her guide was NOT Leoben. Leave it to frakked up Kara to envision her tormentor instead of, y'know, someone nicer.

EDIT: and yes, I picked up on the linkage with the "between life and death" thing, too.