The Ties That Bind (403)

[Corona]

Let's see if Cally doesn't pop up in the goo tub on the resurection ship. Maybe this was an expressway there.

Next, Lee may be working with Rosalyn to uncover a conspiracy and Zarek is testing his loyalty. He passed.

Just a thought.

[Lady Snow]

Today, I'm going to start by talking about Lee.

I disagree about the assessment that Lee Adama was grandstanding in his new appointed position. He has consistently stood up for the "rule of law", first in opposing the "military coup" ordered by his father to oust Roslin, and, just as forcefully, by bringing Roslin to the stand to make the state prove their case against Baltar. I'm having some memory problems about the Executive Order 112, that Lee brought up so prominently, however. Wasn't this the final act that Zarek put in place before stepping down after New Caprica so the "secret courts" could cleanse the fleet of Collaborators? Didn't he explain this as a method of keeping Roslin's "hands clean"? If so, why couldn't Roslin simply explain it as a bad legacy act that she herself had washed her hands of ? Roslin definitely objected to those "kangaroo courts" and ended them when she came to know of them. When did she flip positions?

The executive order Zarek gave in "Collaborators" was never given a number nor made public - not even, I believe, to the Quorum. EO112, as per Roslin's own description, had only been proposed and had not yet been finished. I'm guessing this is what was in the "Classified" folder Zarek gave Lee, but that could have been about anything from a new color scheme for the upholstery to the Demetrius' mission. I'm pretty sure Roslin flipped positions, as it were, after Baltar's trial. Remember her conversation with the Admiral? That certainly suggested to me that she wants to control the judicial branch so as to get her preferred result, at least in the high-profile cases. Is Lee and/or Zarek wrong for calling public attention to this? Absolutely not. Cain did the same thing to Adama regarding the independent tribunals - and now that precedents have been established, it's important for the RTF (who are still clinging to Colonial law [but that's a different story entirely...]) to separate the branches of government.

---

The way I saw the Lee thing was, he was trying to help her out by shutting up the various people bickering. She shot him down, basically being ungrateful and humiliating him. So he decided to make her squirm a little because that was a pretty uncool thing for her to do. I dunno, it seems like Laura is just holding the grudge as she usually does. She's been getting pretty hardcore. Lee could have been more mature about it but she wasn't exactly undeserving.

emphasis mine

I don't know about Lee trying to help Roslin out, but you nailed the single most important thing about that entire scene - when Lee stood up to talk, everyone else shut the frak up. Everyone. Not even the reporters were talking. When Roslin was talking, there were murmurs; nobody listened to Zarek trying to call order; and when that poor sap from Sagittaron (what happened to Sarah?) was talking, not even Roslin was listening to him. But Lee, for whatever reason, already commands more attention among the other delegates than does anyone else. It could be his military experience, especially when he brought up the Demetrius; it could be his sheer newness, and people might want to see which way he's leaning before they disregard him; it could be his high-profile status, what with the Baltar trial and his heroics in the military. I don't know, but I do find it pretty amazing that a "junior delegate" can rather easily shut up a room full of politicians and reporters.

---

Heh. I guess I'm the only person who feels Roslin is getting to big for her britches and seriously needs to be reigned in? When Lee was ratting her out in front of the quorum I was thinking, "Go Lee! Get her, get her, get her!"

She definitely is holding a grudge towards Lee because of the Baltar trial, and I'm not saying what Lee did was the best thing ever, but she needs to understand that not everyone in the fleet is going to agree with her. It's starting to feel like we're getting our dying leader and ramping her up to paranoid and controlling. I guess she's afraid of letting someone else take the helm from her and then leading the humans to disaster (like Baltar did), but she is starting to go overboard. This is not a good combination IMO and I really think Lee needs to push the issues he can.

emphasis mine

Yeah, these past few episodes have really built up doubt in Roslin, both as the "dying leader" and as a level-headed leader. I've certainly fallen under the influence of those who are sick of her. We'd seen it in private matters (like her conversation with the Admiral), but to bring such doubt out in a public forum such as the Quorum is certainly hammering the point home. I think it's also important that we take a step back here and remember that Roslin has never won an election. She has had leadership handed to her on a silver platter - twice. Does she need to be challenged? Frak yes. Does it appear anyone before Lee has done that (during the course of a term)? Not so much.

I can't fault Lee for standing up and speaking out in his first Quorum session. He wasn't asked to be the Caprica representative so he could sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else, he's there to participate and to make a difference - his words to Kara when describing how it felt like his destiny. If making a difference is opposing acts that counter established Colonial democracy and standing up to the increasingly-tyrannical Roslin (and apparently seeming like a whiny ***** in the process [a sentiment with which I certainly do not agree]), then so be it.

On a somewhat lighter note, I thought the Quorum representatives were elected (see "Colonial Day," when Starbuck informs Baltar that he got the super-genius vote after he became Caprica's representative). Are they not anymore? Did Roslin change this, too?


[More later - this post feels massive already. ]

[Lightbane]

I belive Sarah got killed by the cylons, the representative for Geminon? She died I belive, but it might be a different one I'm thinking of though because it happened on Kobol

[Skydiver]

it would be the twist of a lifetime if callie was the 12th. not only cause it'd come out of left field, but also because the cylons have cured their inability to procreate...unless nicky isn't galen's son

I do think that roslyn has it in her to be too domineering. 'i know what's best for you so let me do it' forgetting that she's not a dictator

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

it would be the twist of a lifetime if callie was the 12th.

I don't think so. I think Nicky isn't like Sharon's baby. The final five are different to other 'skinjobs'...Maybe its how they were made, or what they were made of. Either way, I don't think Cally is coming back...at least not as the Cally we knew.

She might be in a flashback or an illusion or something though.

[Pharaoh Atem]

the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..

[Briangate78]

it would be the twist of a lifetime if callie was the 12th. not only cause it'd come out of left field, but also because the cylons have cured their inability to procreate...unless nicky isn't galen's son

I do think that roslyn has it in her to be too domineering. 'i know what's best for you so let me do it' forgetting that she's not a dictator

That would be a very very clever twist.

the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..

Because they don't know if Cally is a Cylon or not. They sure did a job on Col Tigh on New Caprica. That is truly hurting their own.

[Skydiver]

the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..

umm....and one of the sixes blew away a room full of cavils and then the cavils blew up ships full of othe cylons

that directive doesn't seem to matter much anymore

[MarshAngel]

the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..

I think the Hybrid was specifically talking about only the Raiders, which I'm assuming, like the Centurions are probably programmed not to kill any of the human-form Cylons unless reprogrammed to do so.

[wilsan]

I think the Hybrid was specifically talking about only the Raiders, which I'm assuming, like the Centurions are probably programmed not to kill any of the human-form Cylons unless reprogrammed to do so.

I'm not so sure, now that the Centurians have free will they may kill them if they see them and if they don't know who they are. But based on the reactions of the raiders when the one saw Sanders, they may have the same reaction.

[Falcon_prv]

Like in Southpark;

OMG they killed Callie

[Bray]

Callie NOOOOOO!

[generaloneill]

Wow, I was so not prepared for this. This episode hit me harder then the other 2 this season have. I had heard rumours about Cally killing herself, and I was terrified for the baby. Very few shows can leave you absolutely terrified of a character dying like Galactica can. Then, I thought it was all ok, and BAM! Tory shoots her out the airlock. Wow.

My weekend is now screwed up. No joke. But, as bad as it makes everything seem, thats why I love this show. Nothing else has such power, the ability to jab a knife into your heart and twist it around. Its amazing.

agreed i never saw that coming i'm still in shock i was expecting tyrol to show up and stop her opening the airlock.

the starbuck/demetrius story was so boring.

favourite scene adama reading to roslin.

least favourite character in this episode tory go to cylon hell you frakking toaster do us a favour don't resurect puts a gun to tory's head and opens fire

Anyone notice Weapons Lock 1701D?

i did bit weird seeing that number on galactica

i hope cally will be the 12th model it would be worth it to see the look on tory's face when the 12th model is revealed to be cally. RIP Cally

[Ed]

im thinking the sixs eights and twos abandon ship in heavy raiders or even normal raiders with the centorians go back to where ever the threes got boxed and un box them

i liked six saying please to the centurians thats going to bite her in the ass soon

[anotherquestion]

Let's see if Cally doesn't pop up in the goo tub on the resurection ship. Maybe this was an expressway there.

Next, Lee may be working with Rosalyn to uncover a conspiracy and Zarek is testing his loyalty. He passed.

Just a thought.

I think it would have been more interesting to have seen if little Nicky showed up in a tub of goo, had Cally fulfilled her original intentions.