The coming end of internet freedom

[Ian-S]

It's always the students who start the big mess. Wealthy, educated, cynical and ruthless in the way that only the children of privilege can be. Think back to any revolution of the past 200 years; that's the crowd that usually doesn't mind drowning their country in blood for the vision of a glorious future.

I've been saying for a while that we're heading towards a police state as the only form in which nation-state can survive the current crisis. And it may be the best of the available range of bleak alternatives.

I agree with you on the Police State bit but don't think the same applies to the youth, try having a conversation with a secondary school kid about something that goes against the grain of comventional teaching (such as the aforementioned Police State) a vast majority of them are so indoctrinated that they would cut off their hand if told to by someone in authority.

There are probably only one or two in each class that would say no, not sure where you are but over here we have something called austerity, where the government insist that drastically cutting public spending and privatising everything is the way out of recession, just about everybody under 30 goes along with it, to steal a saying from Trump, a politician could quiet little titerally kill their first born if they told them it was needed for the greater good, and the majority would go along with it, so I think that when/if a revolution like this ever happens it won't be the youth (at the time) leading it because those kids won't know any different, it'll be the youth of today who, by then are middle aged, who lead the revolt.

[aretood2]

Legion of superhero's?
Teen Titans?

How would the Teen Titans fit into that? It's the Legion of Superheroes! Eat it, grandpa!!!

It's always the students who start the big mess. Wealthy, educated, cynical and ruthless in the way that only the children of privilege can be. Think back to any revolution of the past 200 years; that's the crowd that usually doesn't mind drowning their country in blood for the vision of a glorious future.

I've been saying for a while that we're heading towards a police state as the only form in which nation-state can survive the current crisis. And it may be the best of the available range of bleak alternatives.

On that I agree to a point. We can see economic forces moving in to limit the open and free nature of information. Not everyone will be able to have the same level of access to information that we do now. Online advertisement makes that possible, but more and more outlets are moving towards subscription services.

The internet is increasingly being used for social interaction, but no real growth in global awareness. It's a perfect tool to control the population with. Spread lies through it, and block the truth through a variety of legal, social, and economic barriers. Gather data on citizens through their social media. Not just a tool for governments, but for large companies too. At least a government can be overthrown, but companies have the power of the purse over individuals and they aren't your traditional targets for rebellions...especially if the government always comes to their aid or is impotent (Or favors this due to the power they get).

Thus why I brought up the reference to the Legion of Superheroes. For those who are unfamiliar:

In the 31st century society has gotten to the point that face to face communication is considered out of fashion, bothersome, and almost taboo. Going out without being covered is bad. Crowds are a waste of time. Everything is done virtually, including education. The United Planets (The government) provides something called "Pulbic Service" which is this advance tool that allows parents extreme control over their kid's experiences. Controlled education and entertainment on levels that would make 1984 look like a Libertarian utopia. Of course the UP is benevolent and it's the parents who are controlling the Children, but this is a system that the UP wishes to keep.

The Legion was formed by super powered teens who decided to flee their homes, avoid Public Service and generally follow their catchphrase of "Eat it, grandpa!" The legion becomes a political movement of teens and kids. They also end up saving the UP and the Earth from EEEVVIILLL since society has become so stagnant and complacent that they are unable to adapt to new threats (or even unwilling to recognize them).

Rebellion usually comes from the younger groups, at that age you are still primed for change and adaptation. Not that old folks won't do it, but in recent history it has been the young. I guess that's one part as to why I like the Legion of Superheroes...oh yeah, and Supergirl is in it too...

Is it well-known? Is it something old?



Reminds me of a line from a Linkin Park lyric:

When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die.

Look above.

[Coco Pops]

It was a given as soon as Internet use became widespread that governments would end up controlling it in some way; no government on the face of the earth or operated by humans would ever be happy with a communications medium that any citizen could access and they had no control over.
The US alone has been trying various schemes to establish precedent for govt. oversight, usually under the guise of stopping pr0n or protecting youngsters for years.

Because some people seem to think that if you yell "think of the children" loud enough that will get the law to change in whatever shape you want.

[Coco Pops]

It's always the students who start the big mess. Wealthy, educated, cynical and ruthless in the way that only the children of privilege can be. Think back to any revolution of the past 200 years; that's the crowd that usually doesn't mind drowning their country in blood for the vision of a glorious future.

And what's wrong with that. Fighting for freedom is not a good thing?

Roj Blake said that power should be in the hands of the common man, for everyone.

[Gatefan1976]

How would the Teen Titans fit into that? It's the Legion of Superheroes! Eat it, grandpa!!!

Have you never watched the TT cartoon?
Eat it Grandpa is one of the lines they use as well

On that I agree to a point. We can see economic forces moving in to limit the open and free nature of information. Not everyone will be able to have the same level of access to information that we do now. Online advertisement makes that possible, but more and more outlets are moving towards subscription services.

Yes, the free hand of the market that is so beneficent..............

The internet is increasingly being used for social interaction, but no real growth in global awareness. It's a perfect tool to control the population with. Spread lies through it, and block the truth through a variety of legal, social, and economic barriers. Gather data on citizens through their social media. Not just a tool for governments, but for large companies too. At least a government can be overthrown, but companies have the power of the purse over individuals and they aren't your traditional targets for rebellions...especially if the government always comes to their aid or is impotent (Or favors this due to the power they get).

That's not the internet, that's it's bastard stepchildren, Twitter and Facebook.

Thus why I brought up the reference to the Legion of Superheroes. For those who are unfamiliar:

In the 31st century society has gotten to the point that face to face communication is considered out of fashion, bothersome, and almost taboo. Going out without being covered is bad. Crowds are a waste of time. Everything is done virtually, including education. The United Planets (The government) provides something called "Pulbic Service" which is this advance tool that allows parents extreme control over their kid's experiences. Controlled education and entertainment on levels that would make 1984 look like a Libertarian utopia. Of course the UP is benevolent and it's the parents who are controlling the Children, but this is a system that the UP wishes to keep.

No overarching system is benevolent unless it allows dissent.

The Legion was formed by super powered teens who decided to flee their homes, avoid Public Service and generally follow their catchphrase of "Eat it, grandpa!" The legion becomes a political movement of teens and kids. They also end up saving the UP and the Earth from EEEVVIILLL since society has become so stagnant and complacent that they are unable to adapt to new threats (or even unwilling to recognize them).

Rebellion usually comes from the younger groups, at that age you are still primed for change and adaptation. Not that old folks won't do it, but in recent history it has been the young. I guess that's one part as to why I like the Legion of Superheroes...oh yeah, and Supergirl is in it too...

Older work within the system as a rule, the young are willing to forge their own way, it's the nature of evolution.

Look above.

It's not the poor who die (well, yes it is), it is the youth who die. Idealism is a threat, and there is no better way to kill it than making them willingly walk into it.

[Womble]

I agree with you on the Police State bit but don't think the same applies to the youth, try having a conversation with a secondary school kid about something that goes against the grain of comventional teaching (such as the aforementioned Police State) a vast majority of them are so indoctrinated that they would cut off their hand if told to by someone in authority.

But that's what makes them so easy to recruit as cannon fodder for revolutions. Give them a clever ideologue with a grudge against the current system who can give an appearance of coherence to their adolescent need to rebel against the older generation, and you can get them to kill and die for the cause. Doesn't really matter which cause. The base demographics of the Nazis in the 30-s, the Russian Communists in 1910-s and the French student riots in the 1960-s were pretty much the same.

The thing about the Internet is that it doesn't protect anyone from anything. It's a vehicle for disseminating ideas - ANY ideas. It ensures that any whackjob with a cause finds a follower or ten, or a thousand. Couple that with the vast increase of destructive power that modern technology gives to individuals - one man can now inflict the kind of damage it used to take large organizations to do - and you have a recipe for social collapse. Try to put a lid on it, and you have so many things to control that police state is inevitable.

[Falcon Horus]

How would the Teen Titans fit into that? It's the Legion of Superheroes! Eat it, grandpa!!!

Never heard of it.
Looked it up but still nothing.

[Gatefan1976]

But that's what makes them so easy to recruit as cannon fodder for revolutions. Give them a clever ideologue with a grudge against the current system who can give an appearance of coherence to their adolescent need to rebel against the older generation, and you can get them to kill and die for the cause. Doesn't really matter which cause. The base demographics of the Nazis in the 30-s, the Russian Communists in 1910-s and the French student riots in the 1960-s were pretty much the same.

I agree, but -a lot- of the time, those idea's are not the "kids", but the establishment to a degree.

The thing about the Internet is that it doesn't protect anyone from anything. It's a vehicle for disseminating ideas - ANY ideas.

Yup

It ensures that any whackjob with a cause finds a follower or ten, or a thousand. Couple that with the vast increase of destructive power that modern technology gives to individuals - one man can now inflict the kind of damage it used to take large organizations to do - and you have a recipe for social collapse.

Do you really think so?
The body count may be higher, that's very true, but when you blow up one building, it's -still- only one building. What -I- see happening is that it is reported on more.

Try to put a lid on it, and you have so many things to control that police state is inevitable.

Agree.
What's worse about it is that you don't need the "jack-booted thugs" to do it, you just remove privacy as a notion.

[Gatefan1976]

Never heard of it.
Looked it up but still nothing.

Legion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Super-Heroes

Teen Titans TV series:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Titans_(TV_series)

[Falcon Horus]

Legion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Super-Heroes

Teen Titans TV series:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Titans_(TV_series)

Teen Titans I'm familiar with - might have watched some of it at some point in my life. Legion, probably zapped along.

[Ian-S]

But that's what makes them so easy to recruit as cannon fodder for revolutions. Give them a clever ideologue with a grudge against the current system who can give an appearance of coherence to their adolescent need to rebel against the older generation, and you can get them to kill and die for the cause. Doesn't really matter which cause. The base demographics of the Nazis in the 30-s, the Russian Communists in 1910-s and the French student riots in the 1960-s were pretty much the same.

True but that assumes the youth are open to the opinion that something is wrong, if they don't think it's wrong, they won't be open to revolution, especially if they don't know any different. That sounds double dutch, what I mean is for example if a child is bought up to believe in one ideology, and they genuinely believe that ideology then it's very hard to change their mind.

For example take biometrics in schools, it's being slowly pushed into mainstream society (here in UK anyway), but at the moment it's not mandatory, most kids haven't got a clue and hapilly go along with it, for now it's the parents who are going nuts and saying no, but eventually the long term plan is to make it mandatory for all students, and they're going to start this at infant school level, and then as the kids progress through the system, they'll be fingerprinted at every level, by the time they've left school, they'll be so used to it they'll hand over their fingerprints to whoever asks without question, by that time it'll be too late for 98% of them, they'll never understand why someone might not want to give their fingerprint to take a book out the library, they'll just do it without question.

[Annoyed]

What's worse about it is that you don't need the "jack-booted thugs" to do it, you just remove privacy as a notion.

Which the advertising, marketing and data collection industries have conveniently done already.....

[Gatefan1976]

Which the advertising, marketing and data collection industries have conveniently done already.....

Those agencies can only gather what we have willingly put out there, and their main sources are stuff like facebook, youtube and twitter. I agree with you, I just think that the data collectors are the middleman, not the root cause, that's us.

[Annoyed]

The attitude of "not having to think about privacy" is dominant among the younger folks today.

[Gatefan1976]

The attitude of "not having to think about privacy" is dominant among the younger folks today.

You don't think that years of it being the norm via the actions of the older generation(s) plays into that at all?
The easiest way to build a mindset is to do it while they are young.