The Political Discussion Thread

[Womble]

I wouldn't write it off completely, here's a statement I've just seen from the Turkish Patriotic Party (thanks to wikileaks):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41818[/ATTACH]

They specifically mention it was a coup to prevent relations between Turkey and Russia (*pats self on back* ). I'm not saying they are 100% correct, but for me it's more believable than the MSM narrative of restoring/forcing secular democracy.

Turkish army's "deep state" has been gutted by Erdogan over the last decade. Secular democracy isn't coming back, unfortunately.

I doubt this will be in the news.

A proclamation by a minor leftist party in Turkey is hardly important enough to make the front page.

As far as I can see from this document, it's a load of nonsense. Notice the contradictory motivations ascribed to the coup perpetrators - retaliation against repressions vs. Gulenists, stopping the fight against the Kurds, preventing Turkey from making peace with Russia, Egypt, Syria - basically a basket of completely unrelated accusations. The Patriotic party basically accuses the coup leaders of being anti-Turkish in every possible way - pick a Turkish policy, and they're rooting against it. It's somewhat surprising that they haven't thrown Israel and Freemasons into the mix (although I predict that it's only a matter of time before they're added). There isn't a single political force that would simultaneously pursue all of those interests. It's conspiratorial shotgunning at its most obvious.

The globalist empire may be dying quicker than I thought if even Turkey wants out..

Globalist empire? Who would that be?

This coup only adds to the hilarious irony that I've enjoyed for some time. Turkey's Erdogan decided it was time to become a 21 century sultan and make the Ottoman Empire great again, so he began undermining Turkey's relationship with Israel and ingratiating himself to Syria and Iran under the slogan of "zero problems with neighbors". Just a few years ago the Turkish army trained with the Syrians. Now there isn't a country that shares a border with Turkey with whom Turkey doesn't have a boatload of problems.

[garhkal]

Cool.
I'm not trying to "prove you wrong" here, merely show the difference between "social media organized" and -really- organized.

As some of my Aussie friends would say, Fair dinkum mate..

Which is why the Dem's said no, it wouldn't do a damn thing.

But yet, looking at the # of people who have been wrongly put on a no fly list (including one senator apparently cause some dork fat fingered the name wrong), they were all for a no fly-no buy law?

But it does not just mean being shot.
Google "gun statistics collected by the CDC" and look at the damage the NRA has done to their ability to track -exactly- the kind of thing people want to know.

Which i hate the NRA for.. There's one thing to be against rules that make it harder for people to legally buy a gun, then there's another to be against gathering Statistics..

BLM does not exist to cover -all black life and death issues-, it exists due to cops getting away with murder. There are several other organizations attempting to deal with the perceived systemic gang culture in black culture.

Are you on about things like big bro-big sis, and the like?

Because at no point does it become illegal for you to buy a gun or get separate CCW permits. Time is not a factor in the purchase and registration of a gun, it -is- for abortions.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree there.

Good Idea. They could even make sales of bullets at ranges tax exempt as long as you don't take them off the range, that way people would not be "sin taxed" for continuing their weapons training.

But isn't that being a 'end run' around gun restrictions? We can't legally stop you buying guns, but we will just make it expensive as hell for you to buy the ammo to USE those guns...
Also where are all the libs at, who consistently whine about poor minorities being disenfranchised? Is THIS sort of law not one that is disenfranchising poor folk?
Also, why is owning a gun something 'sinful' that needs to get taxed?

What motivates the people who want them for personal protection, and the preppers.

Those who want them for protection, have had at one time or another someone close to them who HAVE been mugged or robbed, or assaulted. So they want it so THEY don't become a victim.
The preppers, want it to protect their prepps if/when the inevitable breakdown happens.. Now ONE I will admit is dumb, since HE preps cause of his fear of the "coming zombie apocalypse... All the others i can understand as what THEY fear might happen is a lot more reasonable (loss of the power grid from hackers, the economy collapsing etc).

To be honest, while I am aware of it happening, I have not really looked into it. What I have heard is people being invited to speak, someone having a whinge and the invitation getting pulled. That's something I disagree with on principle. Can you point me in the direction of some of these events?

Sure. here are several links explaining it..

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/15451/

http://townhall.com/news/around-the-...ampus-n1753535

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/li...-speech-video/

http://www.studentsforacademicfreedo...g-shouted-down

Heck, this one, even went into a conservative speaker feeling like he needs to hire his Own security cause he can't trust Campus security..
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/conse...llege-campuses

[garhkal]

Something to consider for the Republicans here to consider about their platform for 2016.

I paraphrase here from TNYT.
"The platform demands that lawmakers use religion as a guide when legislating, stipulating that 'manmade law must be consistent with God-given, natural rights' "

How do you feel about this?

Well, our nation was supposedly founded on religious principles...

31-year old father who drank, did drugs, never even saw a mosque from the inside, in the middle of a divorce, depressed and angry. Also, a petty criminal.

Ideal cannonfodder it seems.

Certainly seems to be..

Hardly worthy of a comparison, don't you think.

One's a tragedy, the other is history.

But if you are going to light up the WH for something, you should realistically do it for all things.. Otherwise it shows a willful bias imo.

Now onto something else that made my blood boil. Several months ago, we saw the respected sports announcer, Curt Shilling, fired from ESPN for his comments on what HE personally feels about the whole Transgender bathroom issue.
Then earlier this week, Cleveland brown football player, Isaiah Crowell, posts a pic on his Instagram account of a cop getting his throat slashed by a black clad figure (much like ISIS or a Ninja), and so far all he has had happen, is a forced public apology, and a 'penance fine, of donating ONE game's worth of his earnings to some cop foundation..

So we get someone saying his mind on how HE sees the whole transgender bathroom issue, and he gets canned immediately. Yet another person does something imo far worse (glorifying cop killing), and he not only still has his job (as of now) but still gets paid millions, and gets effectively a slap on the wrist...
How is that NOT showing there is a double standard???

[Nirude]

Turkish army's "deep state" has been gutted by Erdogan over the last decade. Secular democracy isn't coming back, unfortunately.

A proclamation by a minor leftist party in Turkey is hardly important enough to make the front page.

Yeah, but you'd be surprised by the amount of "important stuff" that doesn't make the front page..

As far as I can see from this document, it's a load of nonsense. Notice the contradictory motivations ascribed to the coup perpetrators - retaliation against repressions vs. Gulenists, stopping the fight against the Kurds, preventing Turkey from making peace with Russia, Egypt, Syria - basically a basket of completely unrelated accusations. The Patriotic party basically accuses the coup leaders of being anti-Turkish in every possible way - pick a Turkish policy, and they're rooting against it. It's somewhat surprising that they haven't thrown Israel and Freemasons into the mix (although I predict that it's only a matter of time before they're added). There isn't a single political force that would simultaneously pursue all of those interests. It's conspiratorial shotgunning at its most obvious.

They may be a minor party, but every so often these kind of parties have moments of clarity in terms of seeing whats going on since a lot of them are grassroots - eyes and ears on the ground. It's why they exist. Anyways, it'll be interesting to see what Erdogan says, we can get more insight into it from there, right now he wants that US cleric arrested.

And because they added a lot of points it makes it invalid? OK.. But on your main point, I don't see how it's any more nonsensical than what the mainstream media is spewing.. Even Breitbart (which I usually enjoy reading) ran with the headline "anti-Islamist coup" which sounds ridiculous. The only funny part in this letter was how they claimed the perpetrators of the coup were also responsible for shooting down that Russian plane earlier, other than that I get the gist of what they're trying to say.

Globalist empire? Who would that be?

The usual suspects, US and EU. Obama more or less admitted it in his most recent speech. Here's a heavily annotated version: http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ronic-problem/

This coup only adds to the hilarious irony that I've enjoyed for some time. Turkey's Erdogan decided it was time to become a 21 century sultan and make the Ottoman Empire great again, so he began undermining Turkey's relationship with Israel and ingratiating himself to Syria and Iran under the slogan of "zero problems with neighbors". Just a few years ago the Turkish army trained with the Syrians. Now there isn't a country that shares a border with Turkey with whom Turkey doesn't have a boatload of problems.

Hmm, I think things tend to change quickly once the real enemy is unveiled. Like Lord of the Rings. But again, just my opinion.

[Annoyed]

The folks at Huff-n-Puff really don't have a clue, do they?

Watch The Conventions

With Donald Trump's victory assured, traditional conservatives have, as one leader recently observed, "lost control" of their party. For this, they have only themselves to blame. During the past eight years, they fed the beasts of xenophobia and hatred of "all things Obama". The monster they created has turned and has now devoured them.

Trump's incredible popularity level has nothing to do with "hating all things Obama" or Xenophobia and everything to do with the establishment Republican's thumbing their noses at the lower and middle working classes in favor of the well to do.

Oh, and Sanders' popularity on the Democrats' side is based on the exact same concerns, because both the Democrats AND the Republicans have been giving the finger to the working stiffs of this country for a very long time now.

It's long past time the working stiffs had voices to speak for them. It's just too bad that Sanders' bad judgement led him to choose a year when the nomination had already been reserved for Hillary way back in 2008. He should have waited till 2020, hoping that the R's won this time around so he might have actually had a shot at getting the Dem's nod.

[Falcon Horus]

I don't know how similar EU Law is to UK...

There is no such thing as EU law, except where the economy is concerned. Please, the European Union is not a country, nor is Europe, nor is it a United States of Europe. Criminal law is not EU law, it's country-bound.

Well, our nation was supposedly founded on religious principles...

And yet your constitution states:

"The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices. It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. It also guarantees the right of citizens to assemble peaceably and to petition their government. "

Woops... I guess, Amendments are only convenient when they suit the needs of the people.

But if you are going to light up the WH for something, you should realistically do it for all things.. Otherwise it shows a willful bias imo.

In that case, I hope you are okay with your tax-dollars going to the electrical bill cause the WH will be lit 24h, 7 days a week.

Then earlier this week, Cleveland brown football player, Isaiah Crowell, posts a pic on his Instagram account of a cop getting his throat slashed by a black clad figure (much like ISIS or a Ninja), and so far all he has had happen, is a forced public apology, and a 'penance fine, of donating ONE game's worth of his earnings to some cop foundation..

So we get someone saying his mind on how HE sees the whole transgender bathroom issue, and he gets canned immediately. Yet another person does something imo far worse (glorifying cop killing), and he not only still has his job (as of now) but still gets paid millions, and gets effectively a slap on the wrist...
How is that NOT showing there is a double standard???

That would lead to an immediate termination of the contract.
And very likely the end of their carreer.

We've had several sportsmen who were suspended after homophobic remarks, though nothing like that image posting.

He should have waited till 2020...

Bernie Sanders might not be alive in 2020.

[Annoyed]

Gotta agree with FH on the religion issue, garhkal. While many of the founding fathers were deeply religious men, the right to freedom of or from religion has been part of the US since the outset.
While the phrase "In God We Trust" is on money and such, and there are other references to God, nowhere is it specified which God or Gods are involved. It is the individual's discretion which particular God to worship, if any.

[dipsofjazz]

There is no such thing as EU law, except where the economy is concerned. Please, the European Union is not a country, nor is Europe, nor is it a United States of Europe. Criminal law is not EU law, it's country-bound.

Can you also inform Ian-S that there isn't a 'UK law'. Scotland, Northern Ireland and England all have different law systems, therefore any law added from Europe has to be added to each country's laws.

[Gatefan1976]

Gotta agree with FH on the religion issue, garhkal. While many of the founding fathers were deeply religious men, the right to freedom of or from religion has been part of the US since the outset.
While the phrase "In God We Trust" is on money and such, and there are other references to God, nowhere is it specified which God or Gods are involved. It is the individual's discretion which particular God to worship, if any.

But you are willing to have your laws informed by religion, and I assume you read more of the platform, teaching religion in schools to have a well educated citizenry??

Both things are antithetical to America, yet the "party of god" are making them political planks.

[Falcon Horus]

Can you also inform Ian-S that there isn't a 'UK law'. Scotland, Northern Ireland and England all have different law systems, therefore any law added from Europe has to be added to each country's laws.

Ian-S, please take note.

That's also news to me.

[Annoyed]

But you are willing to have your laws informed by religion, and I assume you read more of the platform, teaching religion in schools to have a well educated citizenry??

Both things are antithetical to America, yet the "party of god" are making them political planks.

Relax. That probably made it to plank status to pacify the religious right. I'd be very surprised if anything actually gets done. The "Religious Right" isn't a big factor this time around. So I'm not surprised they're being thrown a bone. But I don't expect there is much meat on it.

[Gatefan1976]

Relax. That probably made it to plank status to pacify the religious right. I'd be very surprised if anything actually gets done. The "Religious Right" isn't a big factor this time around. So I'm not surprised they're being thrown a bone. But I don't expect there is much meat on it.

And picking a VP who is a creationist is a bone as well I assume?

[Annoyed]

And picking a VP who is a creationist is a bone as well I assume?

I'll take your word for it. I hadn't bothered to see what his religious beliefs are. Many on the right do believe in creation. That doesn't disqualify him, or mean that he will act solely per his own views. If in the unlikely event he actually has to do something. Unless POTUS dies or is incapacitated/impeached/etc. VP is pretty much window dressing anyway.

[Gatefan1976]

I'll take your word for it. I hadn't bothered to see what his religious beliefs are. Many on the right do believe in creation. That doesn't disqualify him, or mean that he will act solely per his own views. If in the unlikely event he actually has to do something. Unless POTUS dies or is incapacitated/impeached/etc. VP is pretty much window dressing anyway.

Creationist
Wanted to create a state run media organization
Was for the Iraq war (Trump claims he was against it)
Is for the TTP (Trump claims he is against it)
Is a Republican Establishment insider (which the Trump supporters claim they are rebelling against)
Wanted to pass laws giving companies the right to fire LGBT employee's

There is more, but, you get the drift I hope.

[Annoyed]

In that case, he's insurance. Nobody will be likely to assassinate Trump.