The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

Which makes me wonder why they even took IN refugees in the first place.. If you can't take care of your own people, cause you are in an Economic crisis, then WTF are you doing taking in 1000s of refugees?

How you gonna pay for them all?

No doubt they expect others to pay for it via loans that will never be repaid. Just as they have paid for all their other excesses.

[Falcon Horus]

Have to disagree with you here, PH. Greece is in trouble because they spent a long time living beyond their means by borrowing money to pay for luxuries they couldn't afford. Eventually, the bill had to come due. The last thing they should do is borrow more money. They had the party, and it's up to them to dig themselves out and suffer the hangover.

They should never have decline German's payment after the war. It might have helped their cause.

[Falcon Horus]

Found another article about Israeli's being quite proud of their IDF soldiers killing a "terrorist" - it's a Dutch article with the very appropriate title: Shoot first, ask questions later.

Can't share though, sadly... it's currently paid-only access. Perhaps, it will become available in the next few days.

[aretood2]

Except for the pillars, most of the Parthenon isn't in Greece at all, but currently residing in the British Museum in London. A large part of their archeological heritage has been in museums around the globe. And the artifacts that are still in their posession are left to wither.

I was in Crete in May, and their historical sites are all neglected to the point where no digging is being done. They don't have the money for it. If digging is going on, it's funded through foreign projects or universities so in that area they are already allowing foreign archaeologist to come play in their ground. None of the artifacts can be taken to the home country though. Left-over from when the Brits took everything they found.

*Hides pictures of Indiana Jones*

Mmm... I don't recall those 1000+ Palestinians in Gaza last year being anything else.

They cheered every time a rocket hit target, you tell me how I should interpret that?
Targets usually have people in the immediate surroundings so, I don't know, you tell me.

Do you know that they were celebrating the deaths of those civilians or that they were celebrating attacking Hamas and putting an end to the barrage of missile and mortar fire?

Were the targets not missile launch cites? I mean...yeah, cheering during a war is iffy. But then again...what can we call VE-Day? How many firebombings were required? Carpet bombings? Civilian casualties were astronomical. Yet no one is going to accuse the allies of wanting civilian blood for breakfast. How about the celebrations of Japan's surrender? I mean...they came after it was nuked. Is it really that hard to imagine that victory is celebrated, even if premature? Couldn't that be another interpretation?

Were they sitting atop a hilltop, watching the rockets hit targets? Was it a true spectacle? A sight for sore eyes?

I don't understand.

I most certainly don't qualify as a pacifist... I'm not averse to violence.
Like I mentioned in another thread, there was a time in my life where I wanted to join the military. I would never have made it passed the medical check, but the intent was there.

It would have certainly made it easier for me to understand you if you were. I'm still lost to your POV. I mean, it seems like you condemned the US for going after Ben Laden in Afghanistan about a month ago.

And yet, it's the innocent who die.

Show me a war where the innocent did not die.

Yes, but they weren't shot down, now were they?

What do you mean?

Now that I've read up on the political parties.... yes, I believe there will be a crowd gathering to cheer.

What part of their politics, exactly, makes you think that?

They don't have a choice - refugees keep landing on their shores. They're being swamped by them.

They'll keep doing that until Europe decides to act and not sit with their hands on their under their rear ends. Sorry, but the moment Europe took those refugees in, they became Europe's responsibility. They are not migrants, and I am sure many of them would love to go home. What exactly is Europe planning to do? Wait for the Russians to take out Assad's enemies and allow ISIS to get stronger? Ask for the US to step in? Wait for Chinese troops to show up and do the same as Russia? Allow Iran to set camp in Syria? Don't forget, Iran's biggest grief is with the French and the British and they have no calms about driving over other countries to get to them.

Get it through your head, no one is saying that they are innocent. This is the bog standard defense "but they hate us ", totally ignoring that perhaps, just perhaps there is a reason for it. It's like a Black person who has just -actually- committed a crime saying "yeah you are picking on me because I am Black"
Ethnicity is not always the cause of someone calling someone out.
They are not innocent, nor are Israel. the argument comes down to two 6 year olds pointing at each other saying "HE STARTED IT"

Only in this case the world is playing favorites and only shouting at one of the kids. It's interesting to note that the way America is behaving determines how Latin America reacts to Israel...

What there is, is judgement.
But if it is truth, then why should anyone have any empathy for a people they see as trying to hold themselves innocent while pursuing war?

Hang on, let me guess, you were defending yourselves......
Strangely, home defense does not tend to come with annexation of land, not even Florida would allow that kind of crap.

So...does the fact that if they didn't annex the borders there'd be mortar fire in the most densely populated regions of Israel and not to mention Airports mean anything? The only real mistake Israel made, is to win. If what you say is true and they are both equally in the wrong, then that is the case. Israel's crime is not loosing while it is Palestine's benefit that it is loosing. Face it, as a world we'd see Israelis in a whole lot better light if they were the "underdogs" in this conflict.

I am not speaking to your, Gatefan, comments. But to what I see in the media and everywhere in general. People would like Israelis a lot better if they were sheep heading to the slaughter. Just analyze the language that is used between stories where one or the other is a victim of an attack/crime. Actually, you rarely see anything on the knew about Israelis being attacked. No one really knew about the rocket fire in 2008 until Israel started launching its counter attack. And when I say no one, I mean the average person who glances at the news. But when Israel attacked, between the news coverage and social media...you'd have to purposefully avoid the news in order to not know about it.

[Coco Pops]

Found another article about Israeli's being quite proud of their IDF soldiers killing a "terrorist" - it's a Dutch article with the very appropriate title: Shoot first, ask questions later.

Can't share though, sadly... it's currently paid-only access. Perhaps, it will become available in the next few days.

You can if you can find the link in google the green text under the link is usually a cached copy..

[epg20]

Except for the pillars, most of the Parthenon isn't in Greece at all, but currently residing in the British Museum in London. A large part of their archeological heritage has been in museums around the globe. And the artifacts that are still in their posession are left to wither.

I was in Crete in May, and their historical sites are all neglected to the point where no digging is being done. They don't have the money for it. If digging is going on, it's funded through foreign projects or universities so in that area they are already allowing foreign archaeologist to come play in their ground. None of the artifacts can be taken to the home country though. Left-over from when the Brits took everything they found.

thanks, that was interesting reading, I didn't know about that. the scuffle over the marbles could easily be resolved by paying a lease fee, as long as it wasn't too much, this would give needed capitol to Greece and resolve the problem, the same could be done with the other archeological treasures that are dug up by collages and universities, the governments, of the countries that had the collages and universities could pay a lease fee and then they could be allowed to display the treasures of Greece, that is if the Greek government would change its position, yes, they were taken, but this way they will be GIVEN instead and be cared for in a more respectful way, and they get the needed cash to help repair their government.

[garhkal]

Thoughts on Mobility scooters/American's with Disability act...

Back on labor day last month, while on my security guard job at a Jo-Ann fabrics, i was asked by a female customer about our 'mobility scooter' that the store provides as a courtesy to customers. I informed her someone else had it, and had been in it for around 30 min so far if memory served me correctly.
She waited for around 20 min, then asked if i would inquire from the current user how much longer she would be.
I did just that, and reported back to the lady who asked me to inquire, that the current user cause they were having a lot of shopping to do, would just hold off and come back later.
This evening at work, the store manager showed me an Email from corporate, where that lady who gave UP the cart after my 'irritant questioning and hassling of her' had ranted to corporate and after getting no joy, supposedly took it to social media to rant about her 'abusive' treatment and feeling of being profiled (Cause though she only looked fat and not disabled, she supposedly is)..

No reprimands came my way, but the manager did inform me in future if something like that comes up, to refer it to one of the MODs (managers on duty), to handle it, rather than helping a customer directly. One of the 2 night MODs, also had to get ont he phone to chat to the lady in question (and her friend who was with her the night of the incident) to 'smooth things over'..
During that chat, the MOD mentioned the lady was inquiring about whether the store would be providing her with some sort of VIP coupon to 'compensate her for her suffering', which triggered the MODs' radar that something was hanky with the whole situation.

Now the lady who was 'supposedly offended by my act' has been in the store at least twice since that day, and has on both occasions spoken to me cordially. So if she was so offended, why didn't she bring it up to ME or the MOD? Was her attempt to take it to social media, an attempt to 'fleece' us?

Now in some of the convo's i have had with that lady since (on one of those 2 aforementioned days) as well as with a few other scooter users, it has been brought up that when someone IS physically disabled, they not only get a placard for their car, but in some states supposedly get a 'disability card'.. So should those scooters be held BY staff in stores and only issued to those who HAVE those cards (so the truly needy get them)??
Should stores HAVE them?
If someone is disabled enough to need one, shouldn't they have one of their own?

[garhkal]

They don't have a choice - refugees keep landing on their shores. They're being swamped by them.

Just cause they are 'landing on their shores' does not mean the Greeks are beholden to keep them.
Also why can't their navy/coast guard turn these boats around?

[Womble]

Found another article about Israeli's being quite proud of their IDF soldiers killing a "terrorist" - it's a Dutch article with the very appropriate title: Shoot first, ask questions later.

Can't share though, sadly... it's currently paid-only access. Perhaps, it will become available in the next few days.

I'll take your word for it. I'll believe a lot about the Dutch media.

When it comes to someone swinging a knife at civilians, "shoot first, ask questions later" works well for me. There's plenty of time to ask questions after no one is in danger.

Yesterday, two Palestinians went on another knifing rampage, critically wounding a 13 year old Jewish kid. The older "freedom fighter" was killed, the younger one - himself 13 year old - arrested.

That's basically the "Middle East conflict" in a nutshell - them sending one of their kids to kill one of ours.

There are reports that Israel may finally ban the Islamic Movement, local offshot of the Muslum Brotherhood.

The Palestinian media is speaking with a fantastically forked tongue, simultaneously saluting the stabbers as brave defenders of Palestine and claiming that Israel is faking the attacks to make the Palestinians look bad.



In other news, Japan has warned that it would stop financing UNESCO after the organization included Chinese documents related to the Nanking massacre into the list of "global documentary heritage".

Oh, and Russia became the first non-Western nation to successfully perform a long-range cruise missile strike, attacking 11 targets in Syria from ships based in the Caspian sea, 1500 km away from the targets.

[garhkal]

Oh, and Russia became the first non-Western nation to successfully perform a long-range cruise missile strike, attacking 11 targets in Syria from ships based in the Caspian sea, 1500 km away from the targets.

Didn't 4 of their missiles miss, landing in Iran??

[Womble]

Didn't 4 of their missiles miss, landing in Iran??

Maybe, maybe not. Russia and Iran both deny. But the point is, technical failures aside, they have the capability. Even if a single US missile destroyer can fire more Tomahawks at this point than the entire Russian Navy, it's still the beginning of the end of Western naval dominance.

It also means that Russia has gained the capability of striking targets in the Mediterranean from its ships without them leaving the Black Sea.

[Gatefan1976]

Only in this case the world is playing favorites and only shouting at one of the kids. It's interesting to note that the way America is behaving determines how Latin America reacts to Israel...

Are they really?
ARE people only yelling at Israel?
See, I don't think that is correct. I think people are holding Israel to a higher standard than they hold Palestine, and I believe there is a reason for that. Does Israel -really- want to be held to same low standard as Palestine?

So...does the fact that if they didn't annex the borders there'd be mortar fire in the most densely populated regions of Israel and not to mention Airports mean anything? The only real mistake Israel made, is to win. If what you say is true and they are both equally in the wrong, then that is the case.

No, that is not what I am saying.
Israel wins, takes some land, annexes some more that they did not "win" to protect what it did (which given the attitude of the Palestinians is understandable) and it just keeps keeps on rolling, just as FH said.

Israel's crime is not loosing while it is Palestine's benefit that it is loosing. Face it, as a world we'd see Israelis in a whole lot better light if they were the "underdogs" in this conflict.

Perhaps, but they are not, and have not been -ever- in this conflict, and everyone who may bother to comment on the situation -knows- that. Is it to Palestine's benefit? I am not so sure. It certainly is from a "victim" perception, but as a nation, I don't think anyone thinks Palestine is innocent. I think to most people it is just another "bunch of Arab Muslims that breed terrorists", and they are two different issues, but they are always mixed together.

I am not speaking to your, Gatefan, comments. But to what I see in the media and everywhere in general. People would like Israelis a lot better if they were sheep heading to the slaughter. Just analyze the language that is used between stories where one or the other is a victim of an attack/crime. Actually, you rarely see anything on the knew about Israelis being attacked. No one really knew about the rocket fire in 2008 until Israel started launching its counter attack. And when I say no one, I mean the average person who glances at the news. But when Israel attacked, between the news coverage and social media...you'd have to purposefully avoid the news in order to not know about it.

Oh, I don't think that is right. People who "pay attention" always knew what was happening, what you are more talking about is things being in the "common public eye". I don't know how it was reported in the US, but when those rocket attacks from Palestine were happening, a great deal of media coverage -here- was about Palestine being the aggressor, and how effective the Iron patriot system was in defending Israeli cities from the attack. Trust me, they were -not- painted as the aggressor in 2008, at least here. Where the issue lies is not in Israel defending itself, but what goes on -after-.

[Falcon Horus]

You can if you can find the link in google the green text under the link is usually a cached copy..

I tried but it didn't work... Tried it with the new article they have up about the conflict, which talks about a group of Israeli colonists, lead by Davidi Perl, who want Netanyahu to strike back even harder at the violence currently sweeping through the area. One of the things they want is that Palestinian children should be locked up.

Now in some of the convo's i have had with that lady since (on one of those 2 aforementioned days) as well as with a few other scooter users, it has been brought up that when someone IS physically disabled, they not only get a placard for their car, but in some states supposedly get a 'disability card'.. So should those scooters be held BY staff in stores and only issued to those who HAVE those cards (so the truly needy get them)??
Should stores HAVE them?
If someone is disabled enough to need one, shouldn't they have one of their own?

First of, I'm surprised that this store provides even one scooter. I've never heard that before.

Over here, you get a disability card to display in your car so that police know when your parked on a disability parking spot, you're legit. My grandmother had one, and my aunt has one.

These scooters cost a lot of money, I assume, so buying one could be too expensive so instead people get around by other means and when the opportunity presents itself to get one for free (in a manner of speaking) I guess they will jump at the opportunity.
But I do agree that one would have to show either the disability card, or perhaps a doctor's note to show they actually need it, and don't just want it for convenience of it being easy to get around.

Just cause they are 'landing on their shores' does not mean the Greeks are beholden to keep them.
Also why can't their navy/coast guard turn these boats around?

Most of these boats aren't made for a returntrip, and a lot either sink or are sinking when these refugees get picked up out of the water.

The Greeks don't "keep" them either. Most refugees go on by foot, and cross half of Europe to make it to other countries.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

Have to disagree with you here, PH. Greece is in trouble because they spent a long time living beyond their means by borrowing money to pay for luxuries they couldn't afford. Eventually, the bill had to come due. The last thing they should do is borrow more money. They had the party, and it's up to them to dig themselves out and suffer the hangover.

Isn't the US national debt now over $18 trillion dollars?

Greece owes billions but it's a fraction of the debt of the United States.. so if any country is "living beyond their means by borrowing money to pay for luxuries they can't afford"...

[Annoyed]

Isn't the US national debt now over $18 trillion dollars?

Greece owes billions but it's a fraction of the debt of the United States.. so if any country is "living beyond their means by borrowing money to pay for luxuries they can't afford"...

I have been saying that the US is living beyond its means for a very long time. I've said as much here many times.
How many times have I said we have to stop handing money that we don't have out? How many times have I said we can't afford such and such?

I fully expect the U.S. to go the way of Greece before too long, except that no one is big enough to bail us out.