The Political Discussion Thread

[KEK]

That is a myth.

No it's not, her views were extreme. She believed in a dog-eat-dog society where the strong rose to the top and the weak were left to die, that selflessness was immoral and that "money is the barometer of a society's virtue.". She was small minded, and believed that applying the brutal mechanism of survival of the fittest was not only applicable to society, but desirable too.

What she and libertarians refuse to accept is that as beautifully simplistic and intuitively correct the system is, it simply isn't efficient, which their whole argument (from an economic/developmental standpoint) tends to hinge upon. By forcing everyone to pull themselves up from their bootstraps, you're sacrificing massive quantities of untapped potential in the form of countless people who's only route to opportunity is via state help.

You could have the next Einstein living in a dive in Baltimore, but oops, he's poor, so no schooling for him and no Earth-shattering scientific breakthroughs for you!

[Seastallion]

Well, it is not my job to defend Ayn Rand, so I'm not going to bother to continue. If someone doesn't like her or agree with her, then that is their problem. So, whatever.

[Goose]

I think she's an idiot, and that's not a problem!

[aretood2]

Very well explained and put forward.Yes,i cannot argue against what you say and if im honest i agree with your sentiments and thoughts here. Its not i think "we" need to solve the worlds mess and "sell" democracy. Its more that i see the UN as a useless function at times when i see things like this going on.Even going back to pre Kosovo,etc.They dithered so much and it took Clinton and Blair with NATO to get involved and sadly i think this will boil down to the same result but not for morals sake but more because Iran is circling like a vulture.If Syria falls and Iran scavenges the spoils then there may be troubles ahead as the song goes.It is a worrying situation.Some of my American or UK mates say "why do you care" but i just think its not so much as caring.... more a responsibility. We,the UK among others,tore up the middle east after WW2 and whether we like or admit it,"WE" are duty bound to show an interest.

The fact Russia will block any UN resolution with a veto says all thats needs said about the UN. I know their primary function isnt as an army or to help with war but sometimes they just come across as impotent and therein lies my frustration. Im not hawk or dove but i dont agree with ostrich 'head in the sand' isolationist or appeasement type attitudes either from certain members of Govt. Be nice to put 'boots on the ground' for a worthy cause for once,i guess thats sums up my sentiment really.Enjoyed your post BTW.Cheers

It's interesting that that's what you got from my post. My point was that people will do only what they know, because we fear what we don't know. Therefore we shouldn't be surprised about certain outcomes, and that those outcomes are not a result of some underground conspiracy, but a result of humans being humans.

[Womble]

Maybe so but today the Syrian army shells the Golan Heights for 1st time since 70's and Isreal fire back a warning shot warning that if a 3rd attack comes from Syria they will be forced to take "very real" action. This is what i mean about Syria having the possibility to be a worse quagmire than Iraq if we just stand by. Its delicate but the "wait and see" approach wont win us any friends or favours in that region.Especially with Iran backing Syria up and Isreal now preparing for 'real life' military excursions :-S

Rebels warn Israel against Syria interference

The Free Syria Army warned Israel on Sunday against interfering in the civil war which has been ravaging Syria since March 2011.

A report by Turkey's Anadolu news Agency quoted a statement issued by the FSA saying that Israel's rocket fire at Syria on Sunday afternoon was aimed to help the Assad regime in his war against opposition forces.

Clashed between Damascus forces and the rebels have been edging closer to the Israeli border for weeks. Several mortar shell fired as part of the clashes have landed on Israeli soil as a result.

Sunday morning saw a 120mm mortar shell hit the eastern Golan Heights, prompting the IDF to return fire for first time since the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

The missile fired by the IDF was an advanced Tammuz missile, an advanced electro-optic missile, based on Spike long-range missile technology.

"Israel assisted Assad's criminal regime by firing at FSA forces that were closing in on Damascus forces and negotiating their surrender," the Free Syria Army statement said.

"The Israeli forces interfered with the intent of saving Assad's force by delivering a direct hit to the rebels and breaking their siege over Assad's criminal forces."

The statement repeatedly warned "the Israeli enemy against any interference in the Syrian conflict in favor of Assad's regime.

"Any artificial tension created by Israel in the occupied Golan Heights is an attempt to assist Assad's regime by distracting the Syrian people from their revolution," the statement said.

Last week, three Syrian tanks entered the demilitarized zone in the Golan Heights, while pursing rebel forces.

A senior member of the Syrian opposition told one of the resistance's media outlets that Israel not only allowed the tank to enter the restricted buffer zone, but also assisted them by sending up flares to illuminate the area and ease their mission.

He further claimed the UNIFIL forces stationed in the demilitarized zone were assisting Assad's forces.

These claims have not been corroborated or reiterated by any other source

I don't think helping Syrian rebels is going to win anyone any favors either.

But anyone firing at my country is going to get their rear ends kicked. They better move their squabble away from our border if they know what's good for them.

[DigiFluid]

Syrian rebels recognized as legitimate government by coalition consisting of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar and Kuwait.

[SoulReaver]

Syrian rebels recognized as legitimate government by coalition consisting of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar and Kuwait.

somehow I'm not sure that's such a good sign :/

[mad_gater]

No it's not, her views were extreme. She believed in a dog-eat-dog society where the strong rose to the top and the weak were left to die, that selflessness was immoral and that "money is the barometer of a society's virtue.". She was small minded, and believed that applying the brutal mechanism of survival of the fittest was not only applicable to society, but desirable too.

What she and libertarians refuse to accept is that as beautifully simplistic and intuitively correct the system is, it simply isn't efficient, which their whole argument (from an economic/developmental standpoint) tends to hinge upon. By forcing everyone to pull themselves up from their bootstraps, you're sacrificing massive quantities of untapped potential in the form of countless people who's only route to opportunity is via state help.

You could have the next Einstein living in a dive in Baltimore, but oops, he's poor, so no schooling for him and no Earth-shattering scientific breakthroughs for you!

therein lies the problem.....welfare has become less of a safety net for those putting forth the effort at bettering their own lives and more of a lifetime hammock for people who simply refuse to put forth any effort at all to improve themselves

[Rudy Pena]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1200854

Should the Empire State form its own empire?
A petition calling on the Obama administration to allow New York to secede from the United States is one of many flooding the White House since last week’s election. It has won nearly 5,000 signatures.

The New York petition – like most of the others – quotes from the Declaration of Independence to make its case.

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government," it reads.

EXPERT ANALYSIS: READ OUR WRITERS' OBSERVATIONS IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE ELECTION

But unlike those behind most of the other petitions, its creator doesn’t appear to be a local. Instead, it comes from a person going by the name “C R” in Grand Forks, N.D.

New Jersey also has a petition – created by Joe R. from Sewell – as do Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Colorado, Arkansas, Oklahoma, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Missouri, Tennessee, Michigan, Oregon, North Dakota, Montana, Indiana, Mississippi, Kentucky, Florida and Arizona.

PHOTOS: THE DRAMA ON ELECTION NIGHT

The petitions don’t give Obama’s re-election as a reason for cutting ties to the U.S., but they have all been created since last week’s vote.

While most of the petitions use similar language, one of two Georgia petitions evokes the Civil War: “just like in 1860 the south secede from the union. 2012 the state of georgia would like to withdraw from the USA.”

Another petition demands a recount of the presidential election votes, saying that it “has become blatantly obvious the voter fraud that was committed.”

The “We the People” petition site was created by the Obama administration to give Americans a formal method to exercise their First Amendment right to petition the government.

A petition has to get 25,000 signatures to get a response from the White House. The administration, however, said it may not respond to petitions that fall outside the “limited purpose of the We the People platform” or otherwise violate its participation rules.

The Texas petition has already cleared the signature threshold, with more than 27,000 signing on by Monday evening. That petition cites the size of its economy as one reason for breaking away from the union.

“Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government,” it says.

A Louisiana petition is also nearing the goal, with more than 16,000 signatures.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...#ixzz2C4404nAa

[lordofseas]

I still maintain that the Northern states would be better off to cut the Southern ones loose.

[jelgate]

I still maintain that the Northern states would be better off to cut the Southern ones loose.

[Gatefan1976]

Yay!!
Lets make the US its own seperate states again!
(as long as we can remove the military power of each states provided by the federal government)

[lordofseas]

Yay!!
Lets make the US its own seperate states again!
(as long as we can remove the military power of each states provided by the federal government)

Depriving Americans of their guns is rather inadvisable.

[Gatefan1976]

Depriving Americans of their guns is rather inadvisable.

They can keep thier guns, I'm not worried about them, I'm worried about thier nukes.

[KEK]

therein lies the problem.....welfare has become less of a safety net for those putting forth the effort at bettering their own lives and more of a lifetime hammock for people who simply refuse to put forth any effort at all to improve themselves

Has it though, or is that just propaganda? Countries with more robust social safely nets traditionally have lower unemployment than the US does, certainly in Western and Northern Europe.