The Political Discussion Thread

[The Flyattractor]

*exchanges the word "influential" for the word "feared"...*

That I agree with!

[Coco Pops]

Here's a link to a recording of a leaked phone call.....

[KEK]

Russia has amassed 50,000 troops on the Eastern Ukrainian border. Seems likely they will invade, and Belarus or Estonia could be next.

[Womble]

Russia has amassed 50,000 troops on the Eastern Ukrainian border. Seems likely they will invade, and Belarus or Estonia could be next.

There's little point in invading Belarus, which they pretty much own already.

Estonia is a NATO member so it's too great a risk at this point. He will do it when he is reasonably sure that NATO has become completely toothless.

But invasion of eastern Ukraine is not out of the question.

[KEK]

Estonia is a NATO member so it's too great a risk at this point.

I think that would be the point. If he attacks and we don't defend Estonia, then NATO is done for.

[P-90_177]

Putin isn't so stupid as to attack outright or invade former territories. Particularly if the support isn't there. He's a very sly at playing the game but he plays it well.

[Coco Pops]

Putin isn't so stupid as to attack outright or invade former territories. Particularly if the support isn't there. He's a very sly at playing the game but he plays it well.

That's about it.

If they do invade and nothing happens well then NATO is on the same level as the UN and pretty much a toothless tiger. The worst thing the UN ever does is send a harshly worded letter to people it wants to sanction..........

I am wondering what Putin's end game is. Does he want all out war?

[jelgate]

That's about it.

If they do invade and nothing happens well then NATO is on the same level as the UN and pretty much a toothless tiger. The worst thing the UN ever does is send a harshly worded letter to people it wants to sanction..........

I am wondering what Putin's end game is. Does he want all out war?

isn't it obvious. Putin wants revenge that the Russian hockey team did poorly at the Olympics

[KEK]

Putin isn't so stupid as to attack outright or invade former territories. Particularly if the support isn't there. He's a very sly at playing the game but he plays it well.

The support is there. There have already been pro-Russian protests in Eastern Ukraine, and Estonia has a large ethnic Russian population that the government over there has a history of discriminating against. This is a cycle that Russia has been repeating for 100s of years. It'll happen.

[pookey]

isn't it obvious. Putin wants revenge that the Russian hockey team did poorly at the Olympics

No truer word has been spoken

[Womble]

I think that would be the point. If he attacks and we don't defend Estonia, then NATO is done for.

I don't think he is feeling THAT lucky yet. Even with Obama as the US President, triggering the NATO mutual defense treaty would be a hell of a risk.

[SGalisa]

That's about it.

If they do invade and nothing happens well then NATO is on the same level as the UN and pretty much a toothless tiger. The worst thing the UN ever does is send a harshly worded letter to people it wants to sanction..........

I am wondering what Putin's end game is. Does he want all out war?

What is Vladimir Putin's end game? Don't know. Depends on if/when and how far into Bible prophesy this new restoration of Russia becomes (dynamic duet Gog and Magog teaming up with other nations in the region with movements heading southwards towards Israel--see Ezekiel 38 for further info).

As for current details, the BBC printed this news blurb in their BBC News Magazine.
It's a lengthy article, but some highlights are mentioned in the spoiler quote below.

Spoiler:

(Link below is broken. --it was cycling too much (bandwidth?) being not broken. Sooooooooo...
Please remove B L A N K spaces in beginning of web address to access article/link for complete details)

http : // www .bbc. com/news/magazine-26769481
"Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia"

by Oliver Bullough
BBC News Magazine,
27 March 2014 Last updated at 20:12 ET

Quote--
"The world was stunned when Russia invaded Crimea, but should it have been? Author and journalist Oliver Bullough says President Vladimir Putin never kept secret his intention to restore Russian power - what's less clear, he says, is how long the country's rise can continue.
...

"When Putin spoke to the Duma, his homeland was a different, and less respected place. He spoke the language of a man who yearned for the lost certainties, who longed for a time when Moscow was to be reckoned with. He did not say it explicitly, but he was clearly stung by Russia's failure to stop Nato driving the forces of its ally, Serbia, out of Kosovo just months previously.

Russia has been a great power for centuries, and remains so. It has always had and still has legitimate zones of interest ... We should not drop our guard in this respect, neither should we allow our opinion to be ignored," he said.

His domestic policy was to restore stability, to end what he called the "revolutions", that had brought Russia low. His foreign policy was to regain Russia's place in world affairs.

Those two core aims have driven everything he has done since. If only people had been listening, none of his actions would have come as a surprise to them.

Since then, he has seized every opportunity history has offered him, from the attacks of 11 September 2001 to the Ukrainian Revolution of 2013, in his bid to secure his aims. He has been tactically astute and ruthlessly opportunistic. At home and abroad, he wants Russia to regain the prestige it held when he was growing up.
...

Extract{s} from Putin speech, March 2014
* There was not a single armed confrontation in Crimea and no casualties. Why do you think this was so? The answer is simple: because it is very difficult, practically impossible to fight against the will of the people.
...

According to Vladimir Bukovsky, a dissident who spent a decade in Soviet prisons before his exile to the West in 1976, Putin is totally genuine when he says the disintegration of the Soviet Union was a "geopolitical catastrophe".
...
As a middle-ranking KGB officer who loved the Soviet Union, Putin lacked the perspective of senior officers, who knew full well the Soviet Union collapsed under the weight of its own inefficiency rather than because of Western plotting, Bukovsky says.

"It leads him exactly to… repeat the same mistakes. He wants this whole country to be controlled by one person from the Kremlin, which will lead to disaster," he says.

Putin's decision to invade Crimea was taken quickly and impulsively, by a small group of his favoured top officials. That means Putin has no one to warn him of the long-term consequences of his actions, and until he finds out for himself, he will maintain his course. That means relations with the West will remain uncomfortable, especially in areas he considers to be his "zone of legitimate interests".

But we can't say we weren't warned." (end of quote)

Next, about China...

I have been wondering this..........

If the West does nothing will China then act and fully take over Taiwan?

If Russia and China choose to act in concert, then that a good possibility.

The Kings of the East (China?) are mentioned in heading down towards Israel in Bible prophecy as well -- that's going westward for them, not south into the Pacific.

In 1981 (thereabouts), the Daily News of New York (NYC) published an article which I have since lost and cannot find the archives on it -- where it was mentioned in the article that China was boasting about having an army back then of 200 million. The below verses fit the description of this 200 million strong army from one nation, including the colors of their clothing, which is exactly what the Chinese army appears as. (creepy!)

Spoiler:

from the New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Revelation 9:16-17

"16) The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.
17) And this is how I saw in the vision the horses and those who sat on them: the riders had breastplates the color of fire and of hyacinth and of brimstone; and the heads of the horses are like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths proceed fire and smoke and brimstone."

Rev. 9:17 from the NIV
"17) The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur." (emphasis on color, in case the NASB wasn't clear enough)

hmmm... the armies dressed in their standard uniforms from parade routes, but on the field -- "and the heads of the horses are like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths proceed fire and smoke and brimstone" ... army tanks anyone??

I've often wondered tho, apart from the above (Bible) prophecy, on the secular worldly, manufacturing end of life----If China could restore its product quality over to the valuable levels of the impressive treasures of the Ming Dynasty (or Ming dynasties), and get along peacefully and harmonically with the rest of the world, would it actually make a significant difference in the future of our little earth planet...?

Seems that if anyone any where on earth becomes successful (especially lately), whatever they've built up gets brought down or destroyed and thus they are unable to help others out universally.

Of course there is that fine line of where to draw success and wasting excess (e.g., such as folks who are sooooooooo wealthy that if their expensive car breaks down, they just abandon it and buy a new one, and keep doing that like most of the rest of the world tosses out its paper plates! --that's an example of waste, not success. Or spending wasteful wealth on toilets made of pure gold.. when I saw the gold toilets -- that one just floored my brain -- like *why* in the world, other than just because they could do so..??).

Not sure if this is worded properly -- True success is having the ability and doing so to helping less fortunate folks than the generic rich person; and without forcing "spreading the wealth" just to accomplish that goal, too.

[Falcon Horus]

*sigh*

[Coco Pops]

You guys do know bible prophecy isn't factual

[SGalisa]

You guys do know bible prophecy isn't factual

Tell that to the more devout in Israel.
Folks in high government Israeli positions are starting to discuss in some news articles and (people in general on) blogs about taking it quite seriously, especially since the entire bible is basically about the sheer existence of Israel from beginning to end (Genesis to Revelation). (World) Politics included.

(I saw the news about this next item around March 24-ish?)
Israel just pulled out all of their staff from their embassies world-wide, claiming it was due to a (diplomatic / political?) strike. Bloggers on various discussion sites and in news articles are claiming that the timing is suspicious on all sides. Toss into that same mix, Passover occurring April 15, which is the first holiday blood moon for 2014 (next one come on Feast of Tabernacles, October 8, 2014). Maybe most people (including more devout Christians) don't believe in the blood moon stuff, but apparently some middle east folks take it very seriously based on past Jewish holy days in history with significant events occurring that directly affected the Jewish community. Iran has been instigating threats of annihilating (Jewish) Israel off the map. Just the other day, President Obama made a comment about targeting Russia's wealthy oligarchy, which I just read one of the more famous names was coincidentally Jewish. Really. No connection?? So, if there is no connection to Jewish people in general, Why target that one group of (ethnic?) people, if that is truly not the situation? Putin made a comment about the oligarchy, and claimed he wasn't too bothered about it. (And I forget what article and where I read that from, but it was within this last week.)


Anyway, prior to Israel pulling out all of its embassies around the entire globe-- about 3 weeks ago, Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappears, and apparently the now searched for debris fields are just that -- debris from somewhere (not from the plane, so the plane is still missing or in hiding somewhere). China is investigating the so-called debris field(s). I trust China will do a better job at the investigation of the debris than any other country involved...just my gut instincts.

Within that same week the Malaysian plane disappeared, Russia was involved in some sort of communication with Iran over military or economic issues... don't know. Again, I don't know where the articles are or were, I just read the headlines of the involvement taking place. Iran threatened in other news within that same week and before to remove (Jewish) Israel off the planet. Not related news?

Anywho...
The article did not say Putin wants to control the world or even invade or head down towards Israel (tho Syria is right next door...!). The BBC article basically said Putin wants to restore Russia to its former (glory) empire.

Anything that occurs between now and say 50 years that involves teaming up with other countries to venture elsewhere may come from someone else in Russia (thus Moscow/Magog). That's all that means.

Also, currently, there are just rumors circulating the internet about Russia teaming up with Iran and being up to no good either about the USA or Israel, which both countries seem to be in the proverbial doghouse at the moment from the Middle East's POV. Both the USA and Israel are treading on delicate eggshells at the moment and the USA doesn't know who its real enemies are. Why don't the execs doing the politics go fight these things out on some distant island or different planet. The rest of us are nobodies, but seemingly caught in the middle of such world events.