The Political Discussion Thread

[Seastallion]

I've posted a starting point post into the
"Tracking Earth's Future Prophecies with Current Events"
for "Atlas Shrugged" series over there. I'd like to go more into the economic and social collapse with details from the movie // against our real world in that topic, if I get some time. especially the entire Gas rationing aspect!!

What is an Orc(s)?
If that is referring to something in "Atlas Shrugged," I saw what seemed a cold fusion energy theory at work, and also something that looked like a Stargate Event Horizon -- thus the sci-fi, fantasy aspect to the entire storyline. It was impressive. Especially the part I noted in spoiler quotes.
More people should try to venture out to see this movie, regardless of what the critics and bloggers were complaining about.
I'll be posting more about it on the other topic.

Gatefan1976 was being sarcastic. The description he was quoting was meant to be misleading, making one think that the quote meant precisely the opposite of its point, right up until you read the last part.

Orcs are a race of beings from the Lord of the Rings.

Knowing that, you can then understand that the quote was designed to poke fun at Atlas Shrugged fans. I think Gatefan1976 was just being silly.

[Gatefan1976]

Gatefan1976 was being sarcastic. The description he was quoting was meant to be misleading, making one think that the quote meant precisely the opposite of its point, right up until you read the last part.

You got it Bud

Orcs are a race of beings from the Lord of the Rings.

Indeed, you got it right again

Knowing that, you can then understand that the quote was designed to poke fun at Atlas Shrugged fans. I think Gatefan1976 was just being silly.

Yes and no.
LOTR can be seen as the ultimate triumph of the "little guy" over the "big guy" as well, so a sorta "David and Goliath" analogy as well. Ayn Rand is interesting insofar as some parts of her philosophy can be seen as leaning left at times, and leaning right sometimes as well. Perhaps that is why all these years later her works have resonance with both sides of the political devide?

[SGalisa]

Gatefan1976 was being sarcastic. The description he was quoting was meant to be misleading, making one think that the quote meant precisely the opposite of its point, right up until you read the last part.

Orcs are a race of beings from the Lord of the Rings.

Oh, thanks for the Orc clarification. I haven't watched LOTR yet.

Gatefan1976 was being sarcastic...

Knowing that, you can then understand that the quote was designed to poke fun at Atlas Shrugged fans. I think Gatefan1976 was just being silly.

Seriously?
Well, there's nothing humorous about sitting in 4 mile gas lines/or 3 to 5 HOUR lines waiting for your turn at the gas pump. And that's only IF you get there, that there STILL IS ANY gas left. People in NJ/NYC/Long Island(NY) regions, and maybe a few other states also affected by Sandy, found that out the difficult way thruout the last 2 weeks! And what about the poor soul who has to go to the bathroom in the meantime? They drop out of line or lose their spot, because they need to relieve their innards? There were reports of people "exposing" themselves right out in public! No privacy and no shame. Just dumped *it* right out in the open, or wherever they ventured into.

I'm also not really an "Atlas Shrugged" fan. I just found the movie amazingly intriguing, especially after the USA elections were over and President Obama won re-election. People on various internet discussion sites were saying, "Yesterday, our country died." How uncanny is that in contrast with what is in the spoiler quote?

Spoiler:

In Atlas Shrugged, There was a scene where some guy was etching out a sign. It read the following, or something along this line--
"Here lies my country,
BORN -- 1776
DIED -- YESTERDAY."

Back into our real world... Before the elections, Obama said that if he won re-election, he would have "MORE FLEXIBILITY" during his 2nd term..

Lots of speculations went on over what he meant by that (declare himself "King" via executive order.. start a dictatorship, etc; drop us USA folks into a war zone right on our own USA soil), including causing a more intense social and economic destruction of the USA, than what already exists. Various discussion sites were warning that President Obama was going to pull an "October Surprise" near the end of October..
No one expected the super-storm Sandy to beat him ahead of such an idea, and actually create a more divine (beyond this world's political power grip) version of an "October Surprise!"

Well, after Sandy came and went, Prez. Obama also got blamed for creating hurricane Sandy, which BTW, wrecked havoc directly into the DC area (they were in the "RED" severe weather zone for at least 6 hours). Obama is now *god* since he could accomplish destroying most of the power/electric grid out of NJ and Staten Island/NY/ NYC, etc. (by merely thinking about it?!). Prime density populations and businesses all became crippled, because of a merging storm that just happened at the same time high tide and a FULL MOON occurred. That's quite an amazing feat for a human to accomplish.
(now, *that* is sarcasm..)

[Gatefan1976]

Oh, thanks for the Orc clarification. I haven't watched LOTR yet. \

I know you had a "sheltered upbringing" SGalisa, but just how sheltered was it?

Seriously?
Well, there's nothing humorous about sitting in 4 mile gas lines/or 3 to 5 HOUR lines waiting for your turn at the gas pump. And that's only IF you get there, that there STILL IS ANY gas left. People in NJ/NYC/Long Island(NY) regions, and maybe a few other states also affected by Sandy, found that out the difficult way thruout the last 2 weeks!

Exceptional circumstances provide exceptional results, it that really so odd?

And what about the poor soul who has to go to the bathroom in the meantime? They drop out of line or lose their spot, because they need to relieve their innards? There were reports of people "exposing" themselves right out in public! No privacy and no shame. Just dumped *it* right out in the open, or wherever they ventured into.

OH NO!!!

(I assume you have watched Trek at least)

I'm also not really an "Atlas Shrugged" fan. I just found the movie amazingly intriguing, especially after the USA elections were over and President Obama won re-election. People on various internet discussion sites were saying, "Yesterday, our country died." How uncanny is that in contrast with what is in the spoiler quote?

Would it suprise you to know that many outside of the US thought that when G Dubbalya Bush got voted in that people were expecting a resurgance of war in the middle east?

Spoiler:

In Atlas Shrugged, There was a scene where some guy was etching out a sign. It read the following, or something along this line--
"Here lies my country,
BORN -- 1776
DIED -- YESTERDAY."

Back into our real world... Before the elections, Obama said that if he won re-election, he would have "MORE FLEXIBILITY" during his 2nd term..

4 years of beating your head against a wall may do that to you.

Lots of speculations went on over what he meant by that (declare himself "King" via executive order.. start a dictatorship, etc; drop us USA folks into a war zone right on our own USA soil), including causing a more intense social and economic destruction of the USA, than what already exists. Various discussion sites were warning that President Obama was going to pull an "October Surprise" near the end of October..
No one expected the super-storm Sandy to beat him ahead of such an idea, and actually create a more divine (beyond this world's political power grip) version of an "October Surprise!"

Declare himself king??
ROFL!!
I'm sure both sides of politics would just roll over for that

Well, after Sandy came and went, Prez. Obama also got blamed for creating hurricane Sandy, which BTW, wrecked havoc directly into the DC area (they were in the "RED" severe weather zone for at least 6 hours). Obama is now *god* since he could accomplish destroying most of the power/electric grid out of NJ and Staten Island/NY/ NYC, etc. (by merely thinking about it?!). Prime density populations and businesses all became crippled, because of a merging storm that just happened at the same time high tide and a FULL MOON occurred. That's quite an amazing feat for a human to accomplish.
(now, *that* is sarcasm..)

No, it's a bunch of out of touch with reality junk. Sarcasm would be "yeah, your right, Obama has to hide his cloven hoofs and wear foot protection when going to church............

[Naonak]

In all the "pro-life" retoric, you guys always miss the point that the "other side" is not called "anti-life".

As the old Russian joke goes, under Communism there will be no KGB. People will learn to self-arrest, self-jail and, when necessary, execute themselves.

The naivety of some people never ceases to astound me.

I wasn't saying that the USSR (or, well, any socialist/communist state so far) was a good example of it, or that it's even a viable philosophy in the first place.

[Seastallion]

I don't think Obama would crown himself King of America. Quite simply, because he COULDN'T. He'd get killed for sure. On the other hand, it is quite possible that some of the changes he is trying to introduce into this country could potentially lead SOMEONE in the future to try and do something like that. That is part of what Benjamin Franklin warned about in his 'prophecy'. He said the people would rather have only one tyrant, rather than thousands of them. If we come to that, THEN a King could potentially rise up.

Still, we have a ways to go yet, before we run into that wall.

[Ukko]

If these posts get any more ridiculous you'll have to start calling yourselves Ukko.

[The Mist]

To hell with freedom, we want Islamic Caliphate

The Syrian fight is between two different gangs of scumbags. From where I stand, I want them both to win.

Maybe so but today the Syrian army shells the Golan Heights for 1st time since 70's and Isreal fire back a warning shot warning that if a 3rd attack comes from Syria they will be forced to take "very real" action. This is what i mean about Syria having the possibility to be a worse quagmire than Iraq if we just stand by. Its delicate but the "wait and see" approach wont win us any friends or favours in that region.Especially with Iran backing Syria up and Isreal now preparing for 'real life' military excursions :-S

[KEK]

I don't know how anyone could defend Ayn Rand. This is the women who believed the poor and the weak and the disabled deserved to die of they couldn't pull themselves up from their bootstraps.

[Seastallion]

I don't know how anyone could defend Ayn Rand. This is the women who believed the poor and the weak and the disabled deserved to die of they couldn't pull themselves up from their bootstraps.

That is a myth. She just believed that people who COULD help themselves, should. Those that couldn't help or prevent their situations were deserving of help. She believed that rational self interests were a virtue. She wasn't against charity, she just felt that people should do for themselves what they could.

[SGalisa]

Declare himself king??
ROFL!!
I'm sure both sides of politics would just roll over for that

I don't think Obama would crown himself King of America. Quite simply, because he COULDN'T. He'd get killed for sure. On the other hand, it is quite possible that some of the changes he is trying to introduce into this country could potentially lead SOMEONE in the future to try and do something like that. That is part of what Benjamin Franklin warned about in his 'prophecy'. He said the people would rather have only one tyrant, rather than thousands of them. If we come to that, THEN a King could potentially rise up.

Still, we have a ways to go yet, before we run into that wall.

#1-- Never say "never"...
there's been too many "never happen(s)" that HAVE happened...
#2-- The bible records that some day in the future, such a person will establish him/herself up as leader over the entire earth (this is not a prophecy about Jesus of Nazareth).
Revelation 13 states so.. that can be further discussed in the other tracking prophecy topic instead of going into any greater details here.
#3-- "God forbid" such an event should cause Obama to fall under a mortal wound, Revelation 13:3-4 records of such a mortal wound... but it might be referring to a nation, not a person???

Spoiler:

(from the NIV bible)
Revelation 13:3) One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.
4) People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?"

#4-- Given current (world) events, we are NOT very far from that prophecy being fulfilled. Multiple agencies around the globe are working on finding a working cashless society system, but they need to fool-proof it against hackers first before it can be 100% implemented.
#5-- Europe is considering being federalized, and the UN has already created TEN continental zoned regions, thus possibly fulfilling the "kings" (kingdoms) with the TEN Horns of Revelation imagery.

more of that in the other tracking topic, instead.. later..

[SoulReaver]

Electric cars don't work when there is no POWER to plug them in.. October 2012's Hurricane Sandy proved that little demonstration to the hilt.

I've mentioned that little problem (on deaf ears!) when Al Gore tried to sell ALL of the USA and the whole world onto his little GREEN *idea* invention. In fact, I said the same thing wouldn't work if the solar energy resources became unable to plug into. Well, my theory got proven again when Hurricane Sandy hit our region and some neighbors invested tons of money into solar energy and IF their solar cells didn't get damaged or blown away from the storm, the SUN (solar thingy that powers these ingenious cells) didn't shine for 4 days. That's 4 days NO electricity. I don't know how long solar generators last for, but without power to run the fridge it took our fridge just 12 hours to warm up to 60 degrees from 40 degrees prior. No generator back-up power, means no fridge, NO freezer either.

Limit one's use of going into the fridge also, because that just warms up the temps that much faster.
The sad part is that many people were advised to STOCK up for storm preparations (LONG TERM), and they did, and then LOST everything in their fridges/freezers. Many people are STILL without electricity, heat, and water, and either living elsewhere or camping out at their frigid homes.

Even the doctors along the Jersey shoreline are STILL without power in both their offices and homes. People in their area (and others) also affected by massive power outages have been getting sick with bad respiratory colds and flu symptoms, from lack of heat and poorer health conditions. Outside temperatures have dropped into the 20's a few nights, too.

I had relatives in a downed tree/wire zone that lost power for 11 days (almost 2 weeks), who have a working fireplace and heatilator (fireplace vents to heat other rooms nearby), but they never used it because they both have back problems, are both frail, in their 80's and have a hyper dog; and they just decided to pile on the layers and blankets instead. My sister was going ballistic trying to contact them, and was unable to, until I was able to finally contact someone in our relatives' area who sent a security officer over to their home to find out if they were still alive and okay. Prior to that, we tried his cell phone and got someone else. Thought something awful happened. Finally found out the number I had was off by one number, which was weird because I've dialed it before. Never got anyone, but now I know why.

well yeah that's the problem, these folks placed all their eggs in 1 basket
solar energy ain't supposed to be a polyvalent energy. usually those who can afford it, and with some foresight, also invest in wind power to ensure a quasi-permanent energy supply

[SoulReaver]

I don't know how anyone could defend Ayn Rand. This is the women who believed the poor and the weak and the disabled deserved to die of they couldn't pull themselves up from their bootstraps.

yup - she even referred to the poor & the working class as "oppressors". lol
and if being a social-darwinist wasn't bad enough, she was also one of those fascists who masquerade as libertarians

[SGalisa]

Oh, thanks for the Orc clarification. I haven't watched LOTR yet.

I know you had a "sheltered upbringing" SGalisa, but just how sheltered was it?

I have access to LOTR (got it with some Christmas money a few years ago), but I just haven't gotten into watching it yet. Other priorities keep coming up which limit my Tv/movie viewing, or I simply get overly tired and need to sleep, instead. I actually did start to watch it, but got 20 minutes into the intro, got interrupted and haven't gotten back into it since. *sigh*

Getting older here.. was hoping I could hang onto it and enjoy it when I retire (supposedly less than 15 years from now), but it seems like the world won't allow that to happen. I have to work at least another 20 or 30 (or more!) years, because I do NOT have enough retirement funds to live on, and still won't--based on current calculations. Due to job layoffs and other emergencies, my entire family is in the same financial *distressed* bracket and figures they may have to work, until they literally drop dead on the job.
That would be the Fast way to permanent retirement.

Other family members who already ARE retired, cannot understand what the rest of us "work til you drop into the grave" (syndrome) are experiencing.


So, I had a brilliant idea to enjoy every vacation day I get as a HAPPY retirement day, because I most likely will never be able to enjoy a genuine retirement in this life, as my grandparents did. My sisters agreed with me, and thought that was a great idea. Still, I have to prioritize my schedule and use common sense as to what is more important in life-- such as going off traveling to places I can't afford, or sitting in front of a marathon movie session. Even when I am sick, I have found myself NOT interested in Tv/dvds, but working on resting and recuperating AND sleeping (because healing comes when we sleep), and doing things around the home that have been begging for my attention (like laundry/cleaning, etc.).

Due to many circumstances from external forces beyond my family's control, I've been doing STAY-vacations longer than the term ever existed.

So, what few *pseudo* retirement days I can enjoy *now* -- that's what I'm doing. I'm sure the gov't system will change to stop that someday, too.
Might as well join the ranks of those living on welfare and get some freebies, since that is basically what the majority of the USA voted for.. It won't surprise me if more people get disgusted with the *system* and do exactly that. If that day ever comes where more people do join the welfare and section 8 systems, hello... who's gonna pay the bills?
Where do the people already in those systems *think* their freebies come from? magic trees?

No, it's a bunch of out of touch with reality junk.

I think too many "tin-foil hat" folks came out in droves and went overboard, when some discussion sites / various blogs were blaming President Obama for causing super-storm SANDY to wipe out much of the east coast. Obama is now a "god" to be able to cause such a storm of that magnitude to occur. That IS quite amazing.

The storm hovered over DC for many hours, but even with that, comments were flying about that the President was no where near the worst of the storm damaging area. Thus, he could afford to fly away from the disaster zones, and be in a safer haven, like some tropical paradise playing golf..
True, but.. that sounds like tin-foil logic..

I don't know. I wasn't there, and didn't have access to his schedule, so anything else, until (100%) proven otherwise,
is pure speculation based on over-active imaginations. I thought he was in DC at the time (between campaigning), but (evacuated) in a sheltered zone along with the rest of his family and security team. Grant it, if he was evacuated, he had better surroundings and comforts than the rest of us who endured the high winds and flooding rains, and lack of heat, etc, for hours and hours afterward. I do know, after the storm passed, he did visit NJ within 2 days after portions of Atlantic City and Seaside Heights got wiped out and sunk into the ocean.

[Rudy Pena]

http://news.yahoo.com/allen-west-not...221125815.html

Math says Allen West lost his Florida congressional seat to Democratic challenger Patrick Murphy. West begs to differ.

RELATED: Trayvon Martin's Supporters Score a Point in the 'War of Leaks'

The state released unofficial vote counts on Saturday showing Murphy up by 2,500 votes. The results are made official on November 20. Murphy declared his victory over West in a statement. West, unfortunately, isn't ready to give up the spotlight that congress brings. His campaign manager is raising questions over the votes in St. Lucie county, alleging that some votes were counted twice. They've even gone so far as to ask to review voter sign-in books to make sure the numbers of votes count.


West is labeled as a "firebrand" Republican because he routinely says crazy things. Remember this is the same guy who thinks there are Communists in Congress and who stopped just short of challenging Debbie Wasserman-Schultz to a fight after she criticized him.