The Political Discussion Thread

[Chaka-Z0]

American soldiers DO NOT SERVE A PERSON-- i know, i know you wouldn't know that since Australians and others in the Commonwealth serve "the Queen"--we swear our oath to the Constitution

the pride is from the service with our fellow soldiers and in the memory of our accomplishments we achieved alongside them

Here's your post in case you didn't read it. You're saying those soldiers go in for the queen whereas you get your brotherhood. Do you realize how big of an insult that is?

I dare you to repeat those exact words in front of vets and see what happens.

[Gatefan1976]

Oh god, he did not!

You are clueless my friend. Here's a tip, go back to school you failed history hard. Do some research on the US performance in WW1 and the impact of the UK "colonies" and rather, the casualties involves for non-conscripted troops. Yea that's right, Australians and Canadians side by side, which were not even conscripted, giving their lives for a fkn war on another continent and getting our collective asses out of it. What did the US do? They broke line and ensued heavy crossfire casualties on the allied because of their amateurism.

Go fk yourself you know nothing about the "colonies" if you believe anybody here ever gave a **** about the Queen pre-1900s.

Let's talk Vietnam, and their collective FKups there, and how it was there war, but both Canadians, and Australians (and many other commonwealth nations) died for the stupid notion of "what America wants"
How about SK?
Iraq?
Afganistan?
Iran?

You know, all those non European wars the US started.

[magi877]

oh, and again, I offer evidence, as did Annoyed, of even more ignorance on the part of the non US members here,so hell bent on attacking american political and social institutions.

first it was a misunderstanding off our elections system. now it is a misunderstanding of the manner in how our military serves. as in- the us military serves a person

again, please learn about a system before you criticize.

[Gatefan1976]

Here's your post in case you didn't read it. You're saying those soldiers go in for the queen whereas you get your brotherhood. Do you realize how big of an insult that is?

I dare you to repeat those exact words in front of vets and see what happens.

Magi IS a vet, he served his nation in S.K., and I respect him for that.
I just don't get where he is going here.

[Gatefan1976]

oh, and again, I offer evidence, as did Annoyed, of even more ignorance on the part of the non US members here,so hell bent on attacking american political and social institutions.

first it was a misunderstanding off our elections system. now it is a misunderstanding of the manner in how our military serves. as in- the us military serves a person

again, please learn about a system before you criticize.

Did you know, We hicks in Australia ALSO have state, local and federal elections?
It's not unique to the USA.

[magi877]

Then fight for "it should never have happened"
I disagree it the Aussie political position on refugee's, I disagree with ALOT of what we do, but I am not afraid to say it.
WE F"KD UP!!
Why are Americans so afraid of saying that?

As to your wars, you never do them alone, and Australia is the only nation to go along with you in every war or police action you declare.
Don't WE have a right of opinion, or do you just want what you can get, you know, what you are arguing you should not have to do.

i have never claimed nor supported any of these statements or actions'

i have never cast aspersions on the service record of australians, new zealanders or canadians in their war service-any war

it was the british who looked down on anzacs and used them as bullet catchers in places like Gallipoli, not the US

in fact, when the first us troops arrived in france, british generals wanted to sue them as individuals replacements for british units

america has never asked this of any of the above nations. when commonwealth troops have served, they have served under their own command and only under the unified command of the theater commanding general. same as all american units do

--------------------
i am not afraid of saying america f'd up. i have been saying this using other words and method. like, "we should have never gotten involved in regime change wars and we should never do it again"

that certaintly does not sound like i am giving an endorsement for US action

[SGalisa]

Wow... sorry, coming into this conversation a bit late, but been having lots of stress and fatigue from edema issues (too much or too little salt intake related).

Anywho...

I want America to STOP advancing our so called interests. You and others complain that America is too interfering in other nations' affairs, yet when I say, 'i agree, we need to disengage" then its "oh no, you can't leave!! we have a treaty (in Neville Chamberlain voice)"

so which do you want? the US as world cop or not?

I say not.

I want you to get out, and don't ask for our help to fix the mess you make doing it.
Thing is, you have been making a mess since WW2, and that mess is on you.
You screwed the M-E, you screwed China, and you basically screw anywhere you go.
THAT IS ON YOU.
Fix your errors, and don't claim you are doing anything good for the people you screwed.
Or is that too flipping hard?

No one but America put it in the position of "world cop", it did it for the same reason England and Spain did it, for power and wealth.

England held the "commonwealth" for centuries, a few decades is too hard for America. It's everyone else's fault you went to war.

me , me personally? if so, what did it "do for me?"

American soldiers do not start wars, failed politicians start wars

Okay... trying to stay out of the *other* colony issues... so I am voicing an opinion of many people I personally know, and sort of side with magi877 as far as the USA being blamed for BIG BULLY, etc. This is more of a generic, general statement, because it seems to be everywhere on the internet... "bash the USA"... seems to be more of a propaganda technique than anything else. So, in the meantime, for some of us who have lived in the USA for many decades, here is a summary of what I have grown up with, and understand from those who didn't *want* to join the military and "rescue the world" -- even tho, our hearts yearned for those less fortunate would be able to share in some of the freedoms and joys some of us USA folks have grown up with (despite some of the other "political" frustrations that have come with it over the decades, as well)...


Well, we (in the USA) can *blame* coming to the rescue of the other countries who were "at war" against their neighbors or whoever, because those nosy TV, radio, and magazine news reporters went over to those particular WAR-TORN zones (by their bosses or PTB) and "they" helped make the world aware of what was happening... (Whether those efforts were caused by some "Bleeding heart syndrome" or from *genuine compassion*...) So, since the USA and Russia were in the top tier of the world's popularity contest (China might have been up there, too, but not as prominent) --- who had more money to come to the aid of those suffering elsewhere on the planet? Russia supplied the Communist agenda countries, while the USA sent support for the underling...

Eventually, after so many years of this same *war* thing with external aid requested occurring, the USA took the lead role in helping *underlings* nearly everywhere. Now, our USA is being considered the BIG BULLY...? When the other countries who had financially wealthy individuals who could have come to the aid of many suffering souls, only sent "pennies on the dollar" while the USA sent huge amounts of financial aid/support AND man-power??? We, the USA, are the BIG BULLY?

Sorry, but this world's *impressions* of the past and present are VERY warped and in serious ERROR. Maybe some folks in the USA military ended up becoming bullies while out on the field, but it isn't *fair* to LUMP the entire USA nation into this category. There were some people who joined up because they were promised a wonderful future -- IF they joined the military -- and so they joined as if not really having any better options of a financially secured future, and now they are being treated as the world's worst *trashy* people on this planet?

Hey "world"... maybe this "world" needs to get its priorities straight before accusing the USA of playing police-cop, when it basically got coerced into the job, because NO ONE else would take up on that role, as a "major world player". That's just pure BS to blame the USA for most of this world's war-mongering problems. People in the USA are tired of hearing this same old / same old tune... So, if the rest of the "world" hates the USA that much, then STEP up to the proverbial "plate" and pick up the slack and pitch in with stronger efforts and man-power and financial whatever to stop the "wars" happening in the dangerous pockets around this world's *war-torn* and impoverished communities.

(generic, to the "world") STOP complaining about this stuff, and what or where the USA has been or done, and go to work on more action on (generic) *your* end, than *reaction*. If the world does this, then we may be seeing a global governing system set into place in less than the next five to ten years.

[Gatefan1976]

Moving on....

left wing media, here MSNBC, attacks Tulsi Gabbard over her visit to Assad in her attempts to forestall US military action and further overseas follies in the mid east

since when did the liberals become so war hungry?

Sorry, was the media doing it's job rather than being the supposed arm of the left dimwits like annoyed subscribe to?

Go back to fox where they can excuse anything, and have no accountability.

[magi877]

Yes, you see yourselves as unquestioned leaders, with no responsibility to anyone but the USA.
Oh, was I supposed to see the UK, Canada and Australia giving up political authority to the queen?
Yeah, hasn't worked that way for centuries mate, I suggest you catch up.

international 'leadership" and who is or is not doing it has nothing to do with oaths of enlistment

if your nations do not want to serve the queen, then why not change your oath?

the US oath is current and relevant to the current political situation in america. so yes, i know that most commonwealth nations do not see themselves as serving the queen so why not make some updates (oath, money, road names)?

soldiers take oaths seriously. if i took an oath to the queen, i would take it seriously; words have meaning

[magi877]

Sorry, was the media doing it's job rather than being the supposed arm of the left dimwits like annoyed subscribe to?

Go back to fox where they can excuse anything, and have no accountability.

again, you are being contrary just for the hell of it. you do know Gabbard is a democrat, right?

do you not see where the media is building a narrative against any potential success by any, non anointed candidate that could beat one of their chosen (warren, harris, sanders)?

they lost control over the Obama nomination when he neat out Hillary, they were embarrassed when trump won the presidency after saying over and over it was not possible. they will do everything they can to reamin in control of the narrative and outcome this time around.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
but to the point: so you are ok with the fact that HArris,as state attorney general of california, sought the maximum penalty for people with marijuana convictions-many of them african american?

And, i guess who support the fact that she tried to block new evidence submitted on behalf of inmates on death row. inmates who were later found to be innocent?

the media does not care about facts or what is best for the nation, they just want someone to avenge them (aka- someone to beat trump) for their past embarrassments by their getting this election right-***as broadcasted by them***

they are going to help lead to a trump re-election. something we do not need

[Gatefan1976]

Wow... sorry, coming into this conversation a bit late, but been having lots of stress and fatigue from edema issues (too much or too little salt intake related).

Anywho...



Okay... trying to stay out of the *other* colony issues... so I am voicing an opinion of many people I personally know, and sort of side with magi877 as far as the USA being blamed for BIG BULLY, etc. This is more of a generic, general statement, because it seems to be everywhere on the internet... "bash the USA"... seems to be more of a propaganda technique than anything else. So, in the meantime, for some of us who have lived in the USA for many decades, here is a summary of what I have grown up with, and understand from those who didn't *want* to join the military and "rescue the world" -- even tho, our hearts yearned for those less fortunate would be able to share in some of the freedoms and joys some of us USA folks have grown up with (despite some of the other "political" frustrations that have come with it over the decades, as well)...


Well, we (in the USA) can *blame* coming to the rescue of the other countries who were "at war" against their neighbors or whoever, because those nosy TV, radio, and magazine news reporters went over to those particular WAR-TORN zones (by their bosses or PTB) and "they" helped make the world aware of what was happening... (Whether those efforts were caused by some "Bleeding heart syndrome" or from *genuine compassion*...) So, since the USA and Russia were in the top tier of the world's popularity contest (China might have been up there, too, but not as prominent) --- who had more money to come to the aid of those suffering elsewhere on the planet? Russia supplied the Communist agenda countries, while the USA sent support for the underling...

Eventually, after so many years of this same *war* thing with external aid requested occurring, the USA took the lead role in helping *underlings* nearly everywhere. Now, our USA is being considered the BIG BULLY...? When the other countries who had financially wealthy individuals who could have come to the aid of many suffering souls, only sent "pennies on the dollar" while the USA sent huge amounts of financial aid/support AND man-power??? We, the USA, are the BIG BULLY?

Sorry, but this world's *impressions* of the past and present are VERY warped and in serious ERROR. Maybe some folks in the USA military ended up becoming bullies while out on the field, but it isn't *fair* to LUMP the entire USA nation into this category. There were some people who joined up because they were promised a wonderful future -- IF they joined the military -- and so they joined as if not really having any better options of a financially secured future, and now they are being treated as the world's worst *trashy* people on this planet?

Hey "world"... maybe this "world" needs to get its priorities straight before accusing the USA of playing police-cop, when it basically got coerced into the job, because NO ONE else would take up on that role, as a "major world player". That's just pure BS to blame the USA for most of this world's war-mongering problems. People in the USA are tired of hearing this same old / same old tune... So, if the rest of the "world" hates the USA that much, then STEP up to the proverbial "plate" and pick up the slack and pitch in with stronger efforts and man-power and financial whatever to stop the "wars" happening in the dangerous pockets around this world's *war-torn* and impoverished communities.

(generic, to the "world") STOP complaining about this stuff, and what or where the USA has been or done, and go to work on more action on (generic) *your* end, than *reaction*. If the world does this, then we may be seeing a global governing system set into place in less than the next five to ten years.

What a load of tripe.
You didn't get coerced into anything, you saw the benefits of being the "big man" (same as England, same as Spain, same as Rome) and you took them.
Just like England, Spain and Rome, you don't want to admit where you went wrong.

America was supposed to be our hope, the nation that "did it different" than the Europeans, but you haven't, you have just repeated the same mistakes as Rome.

I don't "hate" America, I don't want it to "fail".
I want it to be what it was supposed to be, the shining light of freedom, the place that as a kid I wanted to go to, the place MY kids want to go to.
That's not what it is anymore, and you are deluding yourself if you think it is.

[Gatefan1976]

again, you are being contrary just for the hell of it. you do know Gabbard is a democrat, right?

YES, yes I do.
That was the point you missed.

[magi877]

Wow... sorry, coming into this conversation a bit late, but been having lots of stress and fatigue from edema issues (too much or too little salt intake related).

Anywho...



Okay... trying to stay out of the *other* colony issues... so I am voicing an opinion of many people I personally know, and sort of side with magi877 as far as the USA being blamed for BIG BULLY, etc. This is more of a generic, general statement, because it seems to be everywhere on the internet... "bash the USA"... seems to be more of a propaganda technique than anything else. So, in the meantime, for some of us who have lived in the USA for many decades, here is a summary of what I have grown up with, and understand from those who didn't *want* to join the military and "rescue the world" -- even tho, our hearts yearned for those less fortunate would be able to share in some of the freedoms and joys some of us USA folks have grown up with (despite some of the other "political" frustrations that have come with it over the decades, as well)...


Well, we (in the USA) can *blame* coming to the rescue of the other countries who were "at war" against their neighbors or whoever, because those nosy TV, radio, and magazine news reporters went over to those particular WAR-TORN zones (by their bosses or PTB) and "they" helped make the world aware of what was happening... (Whether those efforts were caused by some "Bleeding heart syndrome" or from *genuine compassion*...) So, since the USA and Russia were in the top tier of the world's popularity contest (China might have been up there, too, but not as prominent) --- who had more money to come to the aid of those suffering elsewhere on the planet? Russia supplied the Communist agenda countries, while the USA sent support for the underling...

Eventually, after so many years of this same *war* thing with external aid requested occurring, the USA took the lead role in helping *underlings* nearly everywhere. Now, our USA is being considered the BIG BULLY...? When the other countries who had financially wealthy individuals who could have come to the aid of many suffering souls, only sent "pennies on the dollar" while the USA sent huge amounts of financial aid/support AND man-power??? We, the USA, are the BIG BULLY?

Sorry, but this world's *impressions* of the past and present are VERY warped and in serious ERROR. Maybe some folks in the USA military ended up becoming bullies while out on the field, but it isn't *fair* to LUMP the entire USA nation into this category. There were some people who joined up because they were promised a wonderful future -- IF they joined the military -- and so they joined as if not really having any better options of a financially secured future, and now they are being treated as the world's worst *trashy* people on this planet?

Hey "world"... maybe this "world" needs to get its priorities straight before accusing the USA of playing police-cop, when it basically got coerced into the job, because NO ONE else would take up on that role, as a "major world player". That's just pure BS to blame the USA for most of this world's war-mongering problems. People in the USA are tired of hearing this same old / same old tune... So, if the rest of the "world" hates the USA that much, then STEP up to the proverbial "plate" and pick up the slack and pitch in with stronger efforts and man-power and financial whatever to stop the "wars" happening in the dangerous pockets around this world's *war-torn* and impoverished communities.

(generic, to the "world") STOP complaining about this stuff, and what or where the USA has been or done, and go to work on more action on (generic) *your* end, than *reaction*. If the world does this, then we may be seeing a global governing system set into place in less than the next five to ten years.

yes! all this

i have one exception

the military. for at least the last 30 yrs or more, most people who do join do not join because they had "no other options"
why?

well, those with no options usually have no options due to bad or no education, poor health or criminal record

all of those are disqualifiers for the military

actually, the same things liberals complain about, and are correct on-the status and condition of inner city education and poverty/crime- are the same conditions that also makes them d'q for military service

no hs diploma? cant really join anything, sometime ged's are accepted, but then you have to score very high on the asvab and need no other waivers

and there is no "go to war or go to jail". any cort record of such is a permanent disqualifier


-----------------------
but to your post

the "world" will never accept a retraction of US power or financial aid because much of the 'world' either cannot or will not do it for themselves or, others in the world are not capable of filling the voids a US pull out would create

I say screw it, lets pull out. lets bring all our toys back to the western hemisphere. lets make the Monroe Doctrine our ONLY foreign policy.

Let the rest of the "world" sort things out for themselves since we have (and we have and are) been too involved in other's affairs.

[magi877]

America was supposed to be our hope, the nation that "did it different" than the Europeans, but you haven't, you have just repeated the same mistakes as Rome.

I don't "hate" America, I don't want it to "fail".
I want it to be what it was supposed to be, the shining light of freedom, the place that as a kid I wanted to go to, the place MY kids want to go to.
That's not what it is anymore, and you are deluding yourself if you think it is.

more reverse american exceptionalism here

why does america have to be 'your hope'?

why would you want to come here instead of staying in your nation and making it a place for 'your hope'?

[Gatefan1976]

i have never claimed nor supported any of these statements or actions'

i have never cast aspersions on the service record of australians, new zealanders or canadians in their war service-any war

it was the british who looked down on anzacs and used them as bullet catchers in places like Gallipoli, not the US

CORRECT.
But when Vietnam, S.K, Iraq and Afganistan came along for the USA, you ALSO had no issues with the ANZAC troops being bullet catchers.
Don't pretend to be better than the English, because history proves you are not.

america has never asked this of any of the above nations. when commonwealth troops have served, they have served under their own command and only under the unified command of the theater commanding general. same as all american units do

What a load of crap.
The "theatre commander" has 9 times out of ten, post WW2 been AMERICAN.
It's real easy to claim partisanship when you get all the cards.
--------------------

i am not afraid of saying america f'd up. i have been saying this using other words and method. like, "we should have never gotten involved in regime change wars and we should never do it again"

No, it's not "another way" or "another method"
YOU FK'ED UP.
Just say it.

I'll help you.
The white Australia policy was a collosal FK'UP
WE FK'ED UP
No hiding, no defence, no deflection.
No other means, method or distraction.

that certaintly does not sound like i am giving an endorsement for US action

Just excusing it.