The Political Discussion Thread

[aretood2]

this attention paid by so many from other places only feeds into the notion of 'america exceptionalism'. a myth that has been built and maintained by all of those foreign nations who do not seem to be able to do anything on their own

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

war? wait for america to come settle it

There hasn't been an international war that matches this in my life beyond desert storm/shield. And that involved American interests. Maybe Kosovo? But that was a NATO op. North Korea...A UN Op and pretty strong American interests too. I'm actually struggling to figure out a war the US got involved that fits this description this side of WWII that didn't have compelling American interests involved.

famine? call america

You sure this is true?

plague? wait for america to send aid and medical personnel

Compelling American interests. A global pandemic does no one any favors. Also, not entirely true either. Just because you don't know about European interventions, doesn't mean they don't exist.

emigrate from corruption? go to america, illegally if you think you must

Also untrue. the US is far from being the only destination for immigrants. It is the most popular, but that's what happens when you call the US "The greatest country ever"....people end up believing it.

even prices on nearly all commodities. the rest of the world reflexes based on what some asinine stock broker in NYC is bidding and selling at

Not quite how it works.

this is also connected to why globalism is bad in its current form...but thats another topic

Define globalism.

[Chaka-Z0]

I think Magi should look a little more into the contribution the US does to humanitarian missions, which is very little for the size of their army.

Canada, France, UK, etc. Those are the countries that drop into warzone to get shipment of supplies through. Don't pretend Americans are actually helping anyone outside of their immediate interests.

[magi877]

I think Magi should look a little more into the contribution the US does to humanitarian missions, which is very little for the size of their army.

Canada, France, UK, etc. Those are the countries that drop into warzone to get shipment of supplies through. Don't pretend Americans are actually helping anyone outside of their immediate interests.

we should be doing less, like nothing.

this is why I like candidates like Tulsi Gabbard. A soldier, who, like me, knows what it means to be in a war zone for absolutely no frakking reason

you want everyone to have safety and food and force democracy down everyone's throats? YOU DO IT

[magi877]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.



There hasn't been an international war that matches this in my life beyond desert storm/shield. And that involved American interests. Maybe Kosovo? But that was a NATO op. North Korea...A UN Op and pretty strong American interests too. I'm actually struggling to figure out a war the US got involved that fits this description this side of WWII that didn't have compelling American interests involved.



You sure this is true?



Compelling American interests. A global pandemic does no one any favors. Also, not entirely true either. Just because you don't know about European interventions, doesn't mean they don't exist.




Also untrue. the US is far from being the only destination for immigrants. It is the most popular, but that's what happens when you call the US "The greatest country ever"....people end up believing it.




Not quite how it works.



Define globalism.

the phrase, american exceptionalism is an idea that involves more than one party.

the party that perpetuates this lie, and the parties who believe or become dependent on it

some idiot came up with the notion and fed it to the world; the world feeds back into this loop of misinformation and comes to say and believe things like "it will be alright, the americans are coming"

the notion is a myth. every nation should be-SHOULD WANT TO BE, exceptional in its own right and be able to stand on its own without being entangled in globalism and complex trade and defense treaties

yes, i am saying we are too connected. all this type of globalism does is feed the bank acct's of huge corporations and does little to nothing for actual citizens

also, this notion that in this current iteration of globalism, that america needs to be the leader of some unipolar bloc of nations is misguided as well. the world has been anything but peaceful since we had a bi polar world. yes, the cold war prevented wars of regime change and the like by the threat of the cold going hot with the two major world powers= the US bloc and the Soviet bloc

--------------------
in the wars you mentioned you naively bring up that some were "UN" or "NATO" operations. that is true, on paper, but in reality the UN is America and NATO is America.

only 5 nations- the first being the US,contributes (by way of national budgets)at or more than the 2% guideline all members have agreed to. Greece (greece, the economic basket case of europe!!) is in second place

now, consider how the rest would act if the US dropped down to about say 1% or less?

this article, by CNN, states that NATO has its own budget. implying that NATO somehow generates money for this budget. but where does this money come from? does nato levy a tax on europeans?

as for the UN and its missions? lets just get it over already and allow the UN to form its own standing army that is capable of rapid deployment and, as a NGO, would not have a side in any conflict other then the interest of the world. staff it with professional former soldiers, airmen and sailors of other nation's armies. save on trng money that way

and, lets get rid of the permanent members o f the security council. make their business the business of the general assembly, now it is a dictatorship of what, 5 nations?

pay for this by breaking up the treaties and mutual defense org's like NATO, and have the UN military handle these tasks
use national armies for national defense, not for projecting power or for regime change operations

have the UN strongly enforce that no nation can 'invite' in an allies army without a majority gen assembly vote. that should throw a wrench into neo imperialism

sorry for the long post

[Annoyed]

the phrase, american exceptionalism is an idea that involves more than one party.

the party that perpetuates this lie, and the parties who believe or become dependent on it

some idiot came up with the notion and fed it to the world; the world feeds back into this loop of misinformation and comes to say and believe things like "it will be alright, the americans are coming"

the notion is a myth. every nation should be-SHOULD WANT TO BE, exceptional in its own right and be able to stand on its own without being entangled in globalism and complex trade and defense treaties

yes, i am saying we are too connected. all this type of globalism does is feed the bank acct's of huge corporations and does little to nothing for actual citizens

also, this notion that in this current iteration of globalism, that america needs to be the leader of some unipolar bloc of nations is misguided as well. the world has been anything but peaceful since we had a bi polar world. yes, the cold war prevented wars of regime change and the like by the threat of the cold going hot with the two major world powers= the US bloc and the Soviet bloc

--------------------
in the wars you mentioned you naively bring up that some were "UN" or "NATO" operations. that is true, on paper, but in reality the UN is America and NATO is America.

only 5 nations- the first being the US,contributes (by way of national budgets)at or more than the 2% guideline all members have agreed to. Greece (greece, the economic basket case of europe!!) is in second place

now, consider how the rest would act if the US dropped down to about say 1% or less?

this article, by CNN, states that NATO has its own budget. implying that NATO somehow generates money for this budget. but where does this money come from? does nato levy a tax on europeans?

as for the UN and its missions? lets just get it over already and allow the UN to form its own standing army that is capable of rapid deployment and, as a NGO, would not have a side in any conflict other then the interest of the world. staff it with professional former soldiers, airmen and sailors of other nation's armies. save on trng money that way

and, lets get rid of the permanent members o f the security council. make their business the business of the general assembly, now it is a dictatorship of what, 5 nations?

pay for this by breaking up the treaties and mutual defense org's like NATO, and have the UN military handle these tasks
use national armies for national defense, not for projecting power or for regime change operations

have the UN strongly enforce that no nation can 'invite' in an allies army without a majority gen assembly vote. that should throw a wrench into neo imperialism

sorry for the long post

Just a few thoughts. The term "American Exceptionalism" has more than one meaning, depending upon context. It can be talking abouit how we are different, having come into existence in a unique manner, and as experiment in freedom that hadn't been tried before. It can also mean that we tend to be successful at what we put our minds to doing, such as putting a man on the moon and other achievements like that.

The reason you're hearing so much about the term today is that one of the political left's hallmarks is a self-loathing of what the US is; many people of that stripe are actually apologetic for the US's history of success. I do concede that in this day and age, at this time, we can't seem to tie our shoes without screwing something up; we've been on a downhill slide since the 1970's.

I've been saying much the same about globalism for as long as I can remember; it doesn't benefit the average Joe or Josephine, it benefits the wealthy wall street wizards and casino operators a great deal, however. Which is why so many of the politicians favor it.

The UN is NOT the US, not by a long shot. In fact, these days it's more of a US haters club, unless they want us to pay for something. In my opinion, we ought to withdraw from the UN and tell them to move their headquarters 12.1 miles due east. ASAP. The UN does NOT have the best interests of the US in mind.

As far as the UN having it's own army... Ok, how do you do that? Allow it to "draft" young men of member nations? Gotta have the cannon fodder, don't you know. Just as I'm against giving the UN the authority to levy taxes on member states(and I don't care if it's called a fee, tax or chopped liver. If they are taking money, it's a tax.

The security council has to be limited. Power in the UN should roughly be equal to that of the relative power of the member nations in the real world. Lower Dark Transylvania or some other tiny nation should not have an equal voice with the US for example.

[Chaka-Z0]

we should be doing less, like nothing.

Why did you sign up in the first place? Defend civilians, fighting abroad so we may live peacefully here? I've been working around high graded officers for years now and some of them completely lost their faith in humanity and despise civilians, are you one of those?

this is why I like candidates like Tulsi Gabbard. A soldier, who, like me, knows what it means to be in a war zone for absolutely no frakking reason

Sorry to be blunt but as a soldier that's exactly your job, it's never going to be your reason.

you want everyone to have safety and food and force democracy down everyone's throats? YOU DO IT

That's the US army and not even what I was talking about. UN casques bleus is one of those peacekeeping corps.

[Gatefan1976]

I would repeat magi877's suggestion that you educate yourself regarding our systems if you are going to criticize them.

https://www.fec.gov/about/mission-and-history/

I know what the FEC does.

As both I and magi877 have told you, elections are the purview of local, county and to a lesser extent state govt. in the US.

Guess what?
So are ours, it's a holdover of the palimantarian system.
Learn your damn history, the pair of you.

Haven't I said that I don't comment a lot about events in other countries because I know I don't know all the details of how things work there?

Maybe you don't care?
We are now being asked to look at Iran, the people you broke a deal with, and you want us to fix your ****. Also China, because your leader is too incompetent to negotiate trade deals.
Trade wars are easy, right?
Australia is not in massive debt to China, but the USA is, and you want our "pisssant little country" to fix YOUR mistake?
Sorry, Australia first, right?

Maybe you don't learn enough simply watching media reports, and in our case, that would be even more likely, due to the extreme bias of the media itself.

You are just ignorant.
The media is a whore, it sells itself out, and you are just as much likely to find a right wing source as a left wing one.
How are your dead folks doing BTW?
Hopes and prayers again?
So useful

[magi877]

Why did you sign up in the first place? Defend civilians, fighting abroad so we may live peacefully here? I've been working around high graded officers for years now and some of them completely lost their faith in humanity and despise civilians, are you one of those?



Sorry to be blunt but as a soldier that's exactly your job, it's never going to be your reason.



That's the US army and not even what I was talking about. UN casques bleus is one of those peacekeeping corps.

point..over..your...head

not even going to bother answering your offensive questions. "despise civilians"? frak off

[magi877]

i think i am done with this one sided sounding board here. an echo chamber of chambers.

nothing but over flowing cups of confirmation bias all around

[Annoyed]

i think i am done with this one sided sounding board here. an echo chamber of chambers.

nothing but over flowing cups of confirmation bias all around

I urge you to reconsider. Even if we disagree, and have no chance of changing each other's minds, it's fun to have a discussion.

[Annoyed]

How are your dead folks doing BTW?
Hopes and prayers again?
So useful

Yes, we've had two mass shootings over the weekend.

The Texas case appears to be a far-right nut job who went on a shooting spree as his means of expression. He's gonna be charged as a capital offense(s) as well as a domestic terrorist, which will get him the death penalty, which is all good and proper. The only downside is how many years will we pay for his existence in the prison system, lawyers for appeals, etc. He earned his DP, let him enjoy it.

And of course, the Democrats are trying to politicize this one, blaming Trump and calling for ever more gun control measures.

The Ohio situation is quite different.
https://fox8.com/2019/08/05/dayton-g...lassmates-say/

The shooter here is apparently a social outcast male who couldn't get dates and such in school. Seems he had a list of males he wanted to kill and females he wanted to rape. From what I've read, many of the women on his hit list were women who had turned him down for dates. For some reason his own sister was on the list?

I wonder how long it will take the left to figure out a way to politicize this one to their advantage. After all, it's gotta be Trump's fault somehow.

Maybe we ought to make it illegal for a female to turn down a date? Maybe we ought to require that anyone be admitted into the "cool kids" clique in schools?

Of course, there is already an outcry demanding the rights of gun owners be curtailed. How about curtailing the rights of others instead, such as the suggestions above?

Of course not. People have the right of free association, just as they have the right to own firearms. Curtailing these or other rights is NOT the answer to stopping mass shootings.

[Gatefan1976]

Yes, we've had two mass shootings over the weekend.

The Texas case appears to be a far-right nut job who went on a shooting spree as his means of expression. He's gonna be charged as a capital offense(s) as well as a domestic terrorist, which will get him the death penalty, which is all good and proper. The only downside is how many years will we pay for his existence in the prison system, lawyers for appeals, etc. He earned his DP, let him enjoy it.

And of course, the Democrats are trying to politicize this one, blaming Trump and calling for ever more gun control measures.

The shooter made it political.
He wanted to make a statement.

The Ohio situation is quite different.
https://fox8.com/2019/08/05/dayton-g...lassmates-say/

The shooter here is apparently a social outcast male who couldn't get dates and such in school. Seems he had a list of males he wanted to kill and females he wanted to rape. From what I've read, many of the women on his hit list were women who had turned him down for dates. For some reason his own sister was on the list?
[/quote]
Seems you trust "your" media.

I wonder how long it will take the left to figure out a way to politicize this one to their advantage. After all, it's gotta be Trump's fault somehow.

Like "Obamacare"??
**** off dip****.

Maybe we ought to make it illegal for a female to turn down a date? Maybe we ought to require that anyone be admitted into the "cool kids" clique in schools?

Or they could have a ****ing choice over their own bodies.
Perhaps we should neuter men instead?
Not fair?

Of course, there is already an outcry demanding the rights of gun owners be curtailed. How about curtailing the rights of others instead, such as the suggestions above?

Bull****

Of course not. People have the right of free association, just as they have the right to own firearms. Curtailing these or other rights is NOT the answer to stopping mass shootings.

Kill yourselves, it's funny at this point. ( you have more mass shooting killings than terrorism, you know, the thing you spent billions on)
An idiot gets a gun, gets an attitude, kills innocent people, but you leave it up to the cops to "fix it", and you demean them every day.

God you are sad.

[Gatefan1976]

i think i am done with this one sided sounding board here. an echo chamber of chambers.

nothing but over flowing cups of confirmation bias all around

Good.
go back "home", and personally, forget my number. I have no time for you.

[mad_gater]

Yes, we've had two mass shootings over the weekend.

The Texas case appears to be a far-right nut job who went on a shooting spree as his means of expression. He's gonna be charged as a capital offense(s) as well as a domestic terrorist, which will get him the death penalty, which is all good and proper. The only downside is how many years will we pay for his existence in the prison system, lawyers for appeals, etc. He earned his DP, let him enjoy it.

And of course, the Democrats are trying to politicize this one, blaming Trump and calling for ever more gun control measures.

The Ohio situation is quite different.
https://fox8.com/2019/08/05/dayton-g...lassmates-say/

The shooter here is apparently a social outcast male who couldn't get dates and such in school. Seems he had a list of males he wanted to kill and females he wanted to rape. From what I've read, many of the women on his hit list were women who had turned him down for dates. For some reason his own sister was on the list?

I wonder how long it will take the left to figure out a way to politicize this one to their advantage. After all, it's gotta be Trump's fault somehow.

Maybe we ought to make it illegal for a female to turn down a date? Maybe we ought to require that anyone be admitted into the "cool kids" clique in schools?

Of course, there is already an outcry demanding the rights of gun owners be curtailed. How about curtailing the rights of others instead, such as the suggestions above?

Of course not. People have the right of free association, just as they have the right to own firearms. Curtailing these or other rights is NOT the answer to stopping mass shootings.

re: bolded

SoulReaver might support that one....would require FH to date him

[Chaka-Z0]

point..over..your...head

not even going to bother answering your offensive questions. "despise civilians"? frak off

Read your posts again dude lol it's not my fault if they led me to this question. Peace