The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

Education in the US before that time wasn't all that good at all. Sure some areas had superb schools, but a lot of places didn't provide valuable education beyond reading, writing, "feelings", and math no higher than pre-algebra. Teaching strategies also were no good and outdated, and a wide portion of the American population didn't have access to proper schooling facilities. They went to school in what amounted to school houses with too little of everything.

My experience shows otherwise. The schools I attended were quite good when I went through them, mostly local control back then. They have definitely gone downhill since then, with the increasing federal influence.

That didn't work out well for African Americans under Jim Crow south. It was the government that was closest that oppressed them, it was DC that sent troops to protect them in Little Rock. It was the federal government that enforced voting rights. It was the federal government that sent US Marshals to protect the freedom riders. The problem with that little axiom is that in practice it doesn't always hold to be true.

If it was the local govt. that oppressed them, it was because the local attitudes were such that that happened. It's the attitudes that must be changed, not the govt. I'm quite sure that a lot of the same crap happened in those areas, it was just behind closed doors after the feds stepped in. In fact, it's still ongoing today. I've read about some of the crap in regards to voting; closing registration locations in minority regions, for example. You got to change the hearts and minds if you want real change.

And another point...what was that thing you like to say about liberals? Oh yeah, you have to work with the world you have not the one you want. Is that how it goes? It's your words so you'll have to correct me.

I say a lot of things about liberals. Mostly unpleasant.

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[aretood2]

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That is a very well made point.

My experience shows otherwise. The schools I attended were quite good when I went through them, mostly local control back then. They have definitely gone downhill since then, with the increasing federal influence.

Sure, maybe in New York, you had a better chance at having a good school. But that doesn't change the facts. Take these pictures of schools in west Virginia. Some of them look okay, others not so much.

Don't forget, Jim Crow made it so millions didn't have actual schools...Local control huh?

If it was the local govt. that oppressed them, it was because the local attitudes were such that that happened. It's the attitudes that must be changed, not the govt. I'm quite sure that a lot of the same crap happened in those areas, it was just behind closed doors after the feds stepped in. In fact, it's still ongoing today. I've read about some of the crap in regards to voting; closing registration locations in minority regions, for example. You got to change the hearts and minds if you want real change.

So it's not the government but its the government? Huh? Yeah, its attitudes, not the government. Don't get me wrong, I am all about federalism, but this idea that local governments are a solid protection against tyranny and corruption and the most effective is hogwash, total nonsense not supported by history. In some ways, the national government is best. In other ways, the state government is best. And in other ways, your local government is best.

I say a lot of things about liberals. Mostly unpleasant.

Two words. Horseshoe theory.

[Coco Pops]

I recently saw an awesome youtube vlog (Linked here) on Charlottesville regarding the last time the neo-Nazis did their thing (Let's agree to call a spade a spade, shall we?). So his video shows how and why the violence took place, uses neo-nazi videos and clips and reports about the police response to put it all together. And here are some of the things he saw:

1. The Police messed up and didn't communicate well enough for protestors and counter protesters to organize correctly.
2. Guest speakers purposefully abandoned their secure routes and police escorts to create conflicts with the counter protesters
3. Neo-Nazis purposefully sought out to provoke and block the path of counter protestors trying to find their correct location (once again police mess ups).
4. Some organizers have records of assault (I don't remember if it is during this or before but at least one of them assaulted people with pepper spray and got charged for it).
5. Many of the chants would have made hitler blush and the conversations they had amongst each other were clearly Nazi conversations involving mocking and impersonating stereotypical Jews and no one objected...other than counter protesters of course.
6. Several of them expressed admiration for David Duke and Dylan Roof, the terrorist (remember, calling a spade a spade) who shot up a church.

And how after that rally many Neo-Nazi apologists claimed that they were peaceful, and victims and totally not Nazis.


Also chants that were done included saying things like "White lives matter" and then right after that "Black lives splatter". As well as "The Jews will not replace us" all while also saying "Proud to be white".

Trump's response last year was in defense of that trying to show that they too were victims...

Edit: Read some of the youtube video comments. A bunch of people posting how they changed from that. I figure it's important to remember that many who get swept up in that insanity can come back and do come back. They can be reasoned with and outgrow that crap.

I just wish this sort of thing wouldn't exist in this day and age, but alas it does.

[mad_gater]

Except the rise of Nazis had nothing to do with education, as in who controlled it...kinda ruins that point huh?



Education in the US before that time wasn't all that good at all. Sure some areas had superb schools, but a lot of places didn't provide valuable education beyond reading, writing, "feelings", and math no higher than pre-algebra. Teaching strategies also were no good and outdated, and a wide portion of the American population didn't have access to proper schooling facilities. They went to school in what amounted to school houses with too little of everything.



That didn't work out well for African Americans under Jim Crow south. It was the government that was closest that oppressed them, it was DC that sent troops to protect them in Little Rock. It was the federal government that enforced voting rights. It was the federal government that sent US Marshals to protect the freedom riders. The problem with that little axiom is that in practice it doesn't always hold to be true.

And another point...what was that thing you like to say about liberals? Oh yeah, you have to work with the world you have not the one you want. Is that how it goes? It's your words so you'll have to correct me.

Actually yes it did....ever heard of the Hitler Youth? That was the result of the Nazi Party's totalitarian control over the education German children received. German schools became centers of brainwashing and indoctrination, a state that is starting to become rather alarmingly familiar within US borders.

[Gatefan1976]

That is a very well made point.

Sure, maybe in New York, you had a better chance at having a good school. But that doesn't change the facts. Take these pictures of schools in west Virginia. Some of them look okay, others not so much.

Are you asking him to consider what happens outside the "liberal hellhole" in which he lives, and that the liberal hellhole made sure he had a good education instead of having a crap education in a "fantastic red state"?

Don't forget, Jim Crow made it so millions didn't have actual schools...Local control huh?

But they were not Americans, they CHOSE to get on ships and pick cotton, it's their fault!!

[Gatefan1976]

to borrow and modify a meme I've seen in my feed: "I saw a movie where the government assumed responsibility for education. It was called 'Schindler's List'"

Allowing the government to control what education children receive generally does not lead to anything good.

The "gubbinment" is NOT in charge of the nuts and bolts of education in democratic "socialist" systems, they just pick up the bill you simple minded tool. They can provide direction on outcomes such as mathematical ability, reading level and such but it still falls to the states (even here) to meet those broad criteria, hell it even falls to the schools to tailor make them for students based on class ability. This is not supposition, this is FACT.

[Gatefan1976]

I'll just leave this here, fake news I am sure...…………

[Gatefan1976]

Actually yes it did....ever heard of the Hitler Youth? That was the result of the Nazi Party's totalitarian control over the education German children received. German schools became centers of brainwashing and indoctrination, a state that is starting to become rather alarmingly familiar within US borders.

The Hitler Youth program was not in school, it was after school in the evenings.
But hey, why let facts get in the way now.

[Coco Pops]

The Hitler Youth program was not in school, it was after school in the evenings.
But hey, why let facts get in the way now.

Only it will be called the Trump Youth .......

Oh and leaky leaky

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8495316.html

[Womble]

The Hitler Youth program was not in school, it was after school in the evenings.
But hey, why let facts get in the way now.

Yes and no. Hitler Youth was formally separate from the school system, but - much like the Soviet Komsomol - it was compulsory for students to join and it was the schools who enforced universal membership.

[Womble]

that is a very well made point.

Indeed well put.

[Annoyed]

That is a very well made point.

Was required to post; I didn't want to take the time to deal with your colored text tags, so I had to put something outside the quote tags

[Chaka-Z0]

I'll just leave this here, fake news I am sure...…………

I wonder what the impact of this will be, considering there are many military families that tend to vote for Republicans? Not good for his electoral base that's for sure!

[Chaka-Z0]

Are you asking him to consider what happens outside the "liberal hellhole" in which he lives, and that the liberal hellhole made sure he had a good education instead of having a crap education in a "fantastic red state"?

Bu...But... He must've missed on so many useful abilities

The education system is flawed in oh so many ways, that much is true. But teaching the basic seeds of rational thinking by proving what is true and what is not using science, learning the language and mastering the art of writing and speech are all elements that are crucial and precursor to enable kids to think by themselves, not by what they are arbitrarily told is true. As a teacher, I'm sure Tood would agree.

Annoyed, we might not see eye-to-eye, ever, but you're at least able to formulate somehow informed opinions, something that can only be done by rational thinking. Reading Jesus' recent blog entries at school won't teach you these skills and sadly that's what some of these *red states* would have us do.

[Annoyed]

Bu...But... He must've missed on so many useful abilities

The education system is flawed in oh so many ways, that much is true. But teaching the basic seeds of rational thinking by proving what is true and what is not using science, learning the language and mastering the art of writing and speech are all elements that are crucial and precursor to enable kids to think by themselves, not by what they are arbitrarily told is true. As a teacher, I'm sure Tood would agree.

Annoyed, we might not see eye-to-eye, ever, but you're at least able to formulate somehow informed opinions, something that can only be done by rational thinking. Reading Jesus' recent blog entries at school won't teach you these skills and sadly that's what some of these *red states* would have us do.

The part you've bolded is one of the biggest problems of "big state" education. They don't teach the kids to look and evaluate the information for themselves, aka "thinking". There is a strong tendancy in education today to tell the kids WHAT to think, and in many cases, if you don't go along with the opinions and views of the ediucators, you're not going to pass.

Honestly, if I had to go through the public schools today, I doubt I could graduate for that very reason.