The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

Ummm.. Since TOS was the original, wouldn't the later series be retconns?

[Skydiver]

With any sort of international and interstellar trade there will need to be some sort of currency. In TOS Dyithium Crystals had extreme value, in later shows it was latinum and other things.

There just wasn't an extreme focus on money and profit. currency was needed and used (cyrano jones selling the tribbles for example) it just wasn't the overriding factor in decisions.

[garhkal]

How about taking a break on the topic of Transgendered individuals and moving onto something else.

Perhaps the hypocrisy of the fact that 45 doesn't seem to care about supposed Russian meddling....since he won. However, and this is probably a really easy question, how do you think he'd be responding to the supposed meddling if he'd lost?

Funny i remember the left bashing trump BEFORE the election, when Hillary asked hiim in iirc the 2nd debate "Will you accept the results" and he said no. BUT aren't the left the ones who are continually showing they are not accepting them??
By making those recount efforts in Mi and PA? By bringing up this fake russia meddling.

What kind of an example is that setting for people as a whole and society with the attitude that the rules only matter if someone wants them to matter?

Again, i see THIS more from the left. As in all those sanctuary cities RUN BY Dems, to where THEY seem to pick and choose what laws will be enforced and what ones are not..
Add to that, how many politicians in general, have been done for 'corruption/bribery', but not gotten jail time? YET had we joe schmoe average done the same we WOULD be in jail?

Which incarnation of Trek? TOS era or TNG era? There is a world of difference between the political outlook of the two eras.
Not having money and such was more of a TNG era deal, while back in the days of TOS, personal money was still very much a thing, as shown by the TOS crew buying the Tribbles off Cyrano Jones, for example, while Picard's speech to Lily in FC clearly said they had no money and lived a more collective lifestyle.

And diversity / multi-culturalism doesn't work , when one side doesn't adapt into the other..

He would be going absolutely feral, well, more than he is being now.

If anything it seems the DEMS are the ones (To my pov) going feral over all the russia stuff, with no evidence to show for it..

He, however ran as republican, with the republican party so scared of it that they enforced a loyalty oath on all the candidates.

And how many of those SAME republicans also signed that loyalty oath, BUT ARE NOT honoring it??
Jeb Bush, Kasich, Mccain all from my PoV.. What about the others?

Look at the speech he gave to the cops. In a time where police violence and culture is a flashpoint, he blithely says "don't be gentle with them" WTF!!!

And i lambast him for that.. IMO it was very insensitive..
Even for a joke.

[Annoyed]

If anything it seems the DEMS are the ones (To my pov) going feral over all the russia stuff, with no evidence to show for it..

The Dems have been as crazy as a stepped-on cockroach for quite some time now. As far as I can tell, they can't accept reality.
The lost the House in 2010, the Senate in 2014, and the didn't learn anything. Like the lesson that their agenda isn't popular with mainstream America. They think the country is to be ruled only by the liberal elites on the coasts. Even today, after losing the White House last year, Shrillary is still whining about every reason besides HERSELF about the loss. They just can't accept that their agenda isn't the one most people in this country want.

Their only saving grace is that Trump has such a horrible case of foot-in-mouth disease, they are likely to benefit from a backlash vote in 2018 & 2020.

[Gatefan1976]

Funny i remember the left bashing trump BEFORE the election, when Hillary asked hiim in iirc the 2nd debate "Will you accept the results" and he said no. BUT aren't the left the ones who are continually showing they are not accepting them??
By making those recount efforts in Mi and PA? By bringing up this fake russia meddling.

The margins that trump won by in those states all but triggered state law mandated recounts, and IIRC, the dems did not call for them. Trump is president, even if he gets impeached, the caretaker position does not suddenly fall to a dem, it goes to Pence, someone more than a few people have their own problems with. As for Russia, you really think that's fake new? Juniors email exchange shows it, Kushner has admitted he wanted to set up backdoor communications with them, and Snr dictated the response to the questions about Jr's meeting being about Adoption himself.

Again, i see THIS more from the left. As in all those sanctuary cities RUN BY Dems, to where THEY seem to pick and choose what laws will be enforced and what ones are not..

Yeah, they should do the right thing and make laws so they can legally discriminate.......

Add to that, how many politicians in general, have been done for 'corruption/bribery', but not gotten jail time? YET had we joe schmoe average done the same we WOULD be in jail?

Sure, that is BS and happens all the time.

And diversity / multi-culturalism doesn't work , when one side doesn't adapt into the other..

It can be a problem, yes.

If anything it seems the DEMS are the ones (To my pov) going feral over all the russia stuff, with no evidence to show for it..

There is plenty mounting, and who knows what Muller is sitting on right now.

And how many of those SAME republicans also signed that loyalty oath, BUT ARE NOT honoring it??
Jeb Bush, Kasich, Mccain all from my PoV.. What about the others?

The loyalty pledge was to honour whoever got the nomination, not a blanket blind loyalty to party.

And i lambast him for that.. IMO it was very insensitive..
Even for a joke.

I have not seen it, did I miss you bringing up independently anything that trump has done?

[Skydiver]

I do think it's disingenuous to declare 'this is what most americans want' simply becuse there's no real way to know. A majority opinion varies from one side of town to another, one block to another and a truly representative view is difficult to impossible to get simply because the result of a poll is determined by the sample you use.

a flawed sample gives you a flawed result.

So any 'majority of people think' comments....well they're only as accurate as the poll quoted and that poll can be rigged from the get go to give the result wanted.

[Annoyed]

I think the national election results of 2010,2014 & 2016 show something of a trend.

2016 in particular when you consider that Trump had so many people so strongly against him and his own foot-in-mouth disease. Yet the R's now own Congress & the White House, and will likely get another shot at SCOTUS.

[Gatefan1976]

I think the national election results of 2010,2014 & 2016 show something of a trend.

2016 in particular when you consider that Trump had so many people so strongly against him and his own foot-in-mouth disease. Yet the R's now own Congress & the White House, and will likely get another shot at SCOTUS.

I think what Malcolm is describing would be the trend you are looking for.

[Gatefan1976]

This one even made the news out here:
http://time.com/4884923/white-house-donald-trump-dump/

How patriotic of him............

[Gatefan1976]

I suppose this guy is a RINO or a non republican now?
http://time.com/4884407/jeff-flake-d...conservatives/

[garhkal]

The margins that trump won by in those states all but triggered state law mandated recounts, and IIRC, the dems did not call for them. Trump is president, even if he gets impeached, the caretaker position does not suddenly fall to a dem, it goes to Pence, someone more than a few people have their own problems with. As for Russia, you really think that's fake new? Juniors email exchange shows it, Kushner has admitted he wanted to set up backdoor communications with them, and Snr dictated the response to the questions about Jr's meeting being about Adoption himself.

But didn't clinton and Mccain use a UK intermediary to get dirt on Trump, FROM THE russians??
So why is it ok for them to have done it, but not Trump?

There is plenty mounting, and who knows what Muller is sitting on right now.

Then why have we not seen/heard any of it?

The loyalty pledge was to honour whoever got the nomination, not a blanket blind loyalty to party.

True, but where has their honoring it been when it comes to just supporting trump??

I do think it's disingenuous to declare 'this is what most americans want' simply becuse there's no real way to know. A majority opinion varies from one side of town to another, one block to another and a truly representative view is difficult to impossible to get simply because the result of a poll is determined by the sample you use.

a flawed sample gives you a flawed result.

So any 'majority of people think' comments....well they're only as accurate as the poll quoted and that poll can be rigged from the get go to give the result wanted.

And when you generally only get 1-2000 people in many of those polls, how can they say that comes anywhere close to a majority of people? ITS Not even 1% of 1%? The Us has what, 400 Million people? So 4 mil would be 1%, 4K would be .01%..

[Gatefan1976]

But didn't clinton and Mccain use a UK intermediary to get dirt on Trump, FROM THE russians??
So why is it ok for them to have done it, but not Trump?

Err, because they did not? If I go poking around your house, and I find your stash of porn and release what I found to a 3rd party who paid me to do it, Am I getting that information -from you-?
Of course not. Republican never trumpers paid Fusion (an AMERICAN company) to investigate trump, they did not ASK the RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT. Fusion and Steele used Russian contacts to get information, sure, but these are not the same thing!!

Then why have we not seen/heard any of it?

Because it's an ongoing investigation? Also, I dunno what you are reading or watching, but the stuff about Donnie Junior has been -everywhere- It even makes our local news networks, so I don't even have to go looking for it. The stuff about Kushner -everywhere-.

True, but where has their honoring it been when it comes to just supporting trump??

Why do they have to?
Plenty of Dems did not support Obama in 8 years, and you a free to look that up, cause it's true.

And when you generally only get 1-2000 people in many of those polls, how can they say that comes anywhere close to a majority of people? ITS Not even 1% of 1%? The Us has what, 400 Million people? So 4 mil would be 1%, 4K would be .01%..

350 million, but why quibble
As for polling, they have targets they need to hit. they don't just talk to anyone they cold call, there are screening questions where if they have their quota of X person, they have to end the interview. I've done this kind of research before man and it's frustrating as hell when you get someone willing to talk, but you don't need what they say because of XYZ.

[Gatefan1976]

Well, trump signed the sanctions, not that it mattered:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ns-bill-241242

[Skydiver]

I think the national election results of 2010,2014 & 2016 show something of a trend.

2016 in particular when you consider that Trump had so many people so strongly against him and his own foot-in-mouth disease. Yet the R's now own Congress & the White House, and will likely get another shot at SCOTUS.

IT can also be argued that the election results are flawed and will continue to be so as those in power 'creatively' redraw district lines to gerrymander....basically rig the election by using statistics to make it impossible for some to ever be seen as a majority.

Even at the most basic, minor things like reducing the number of polling places in certain neighborhoods.
I personally witnessed election officials trying to turn a person away because they had the 'wrong' ID.....they had a passport and the volunteers had only been trained to handle local drivers licenses and tried to tell the person to leave. What they should have done was given him a provisional ballot....really what they should have done was let him vote because a passport is a better ID than a local drivers license.
SO poorly trained workers. ANd while the line was bogged down with this issue, 3-4 other people left because they had to get to work and couldn't be late.

Which is another way to discourage voters, understaff certain polling places to make it harder for people to vote.

In the last election there were also multiple instances of people being in line at 7pm when polls closed, being told to go away....which is wrong. If you're in line by 7 you get to vote, doesn't matter if being at the end of that line means you wait another hour to get in, you still get to vote.

I think as members of hte public get more and more frustrated with decisions being made in washington, there will be more and more of a push to 'tweak' the system to give certain candidates or members of a certain party an advantage.

[Gatefan1976]

IT can also be argued that the election results are flawed and will continue to be so as those in power 'creatively' redraw district lines to gerrymander....basically rig the election by using statistics to make it impossible for some to ever be seen as a majority.

Here is the problem, re-districting -actually- serves a function, it is supposed to ensure that districts have equal numbers of potential voters in each district. This is completely fair, and a needed function of voting districts. Gerrymandering however only serves the will of whatever political party happens to be in power, or historically in power.
So, what you have is a perfectly sane and needed system being gimped by the parties. Of course, even judging it by -potential- voters is a flawed notion in the US as there is no requirement to actually vote.

Even at the most basic, minor things like reducing the number of polling places in certain neighborhoods.
I personally witnessed election officials trying to turn a person away because they had the 'wrong' ID.....they had a passport and the volunteers had only been trained to handle local drivers licenses and tried to tell the person to leave. What they should have done was given him a provisional ballot....really what they should have done was let him vote because a passport is a better ID than a local drivers license.
SO poorly trained workers. ANd while the line was bogged down with this issue, 3-4 other people left because they had to get to work and couldn't be late.

The easiest fix to -some- of that is to change the voting days to Saturday, and I don't think even our republican friends would argue that being a logical move. As for polling places and close times, I can only go off the reported "horror stories" that actually make it out here, or I have to dig -specifically- to find them, our system is so different to the US one that by and large it's intricacies hardly rate a mention in the news.

Which is another way to discourage voters, understaff certain polling places to make it harder for people to vote.

Understaff, or close. "Not enough people come to vote, so spending money on a polling station is not worth it" As for the staff, they are basically burger flippers.

In the last election there were also multiple instances of people being in line at 7pm when polls closed, being told to go away....which is wrong. If you're in line by 7 you get to vote, doesn't matter if being at the end of that line means you wait another hour to get in, you still get to vote.

While I understand the notion that all citizens of voting age -MUST- at least turn up to vote seems incredibly onerous to many in the US, if you tried to pull that here where there are penalties for not voting, the workers at the polling station would get screwed. The turned away voters would pass along the fine to the polling station and its workers and say "have fun with that"

I think as members of hte public get more and more frustrated with decisions being made in washington, there will be more and more of a push to 'tweak' the system to give certain candidates or members of a certain party an advantage.

That's where it is right now Sky, it's been "tweaked" beyond recognition. What I would -love- to see is it getting "un-tweaked" back to where voting districts were based entirely on population -ONLY-. That's what the districts are actually for, not to be used as a data mine on who is white, who is black, who goes to church, who watches FOX or CNN, who is male, who is female, who is straight, who is part of the Alphabet etc, etc. Districts are designed around the notion of pure population, nothing else. If you use other determinative factors to make them, you are by definition rigging the system.