The Political Discussion Thread

[Womble]

1 - I can't believe I even need to explain it, but Corbyn is as bad a lefty extremist as Britain has ever produced, starting with his consistently pro-IRA record and opposition to Britain-Northern Ireland peace process through the 80-s and 90-s. He used to be the general secretary of the editorial board of the journal Labour Briefing, which openly supported IRA terrorism. Corbyn surrounds himself with like-minded extremists like John McDonnell, an opponent of diplomatic peace process as recently as 1998. Corbyn is rather openly pro-Iran and pro-Putin (he used to be paid to appear on Iranian state TV with anti-Western opinion pieces), he has a record of endorsing anti-Semites and Islamic extremists like the head of the Islamic Movement in Israel Raed Sallah. Corbyn invited Hamas and Hezbollah representatives as guests to the British parliament and referred to them as his friends. He is a long-time backer of Holocaust denier Paul Eisen, not in the distant past but as recently as 2013.

One thing to watch for if you want to know where things are headed is the surge of abusive and violent Labor activism and the number of attacks and intimidation displays, which coincided with Corbyn's rise in the Labour. The reason is simple: Corbyn's rise is a hostile takeover of the Labour by the extreme Left, which joined the Labour party in order to consume it from within. The left-wing brownshirts are on the rise in Britain and Corbyn is their leader.

2- Why people voted Corbyn? Many didn't. They voted against the Tories, and for whichever party was not-Tories. Brexit and economic recession have people in Britain worried, the Tories are the sitting government so they get the blame for whatever happens under their rule, and Corbyn sits pretty promising to fight Brexit (which he was in favor of for many years) and resist austerity (but never quite explaining where he plans to get the money). People don't like being promises pain, sweat and tears and many fall for promises of free lunch and magic that makes the bad stuff go away.

3 - Second most powerful country of the West falling to left-wing extremism - does it really require explanation why it's bad for the West?

4 - Corbynista? I need to explain (let alone help you spell)? I do believe you are better informed than that. I will only explain that one as a last resort.

5- I've spent the last many years explaining why Obama was so bad. Need I repeat myself?

6- Same regarding Trump.

[Gatefan1976]

1 - I can't believe I even need to explain it, but Corbyn is as bad a lefty extremist as Britain has ever produced, starting with his consistently pro-IRA record and opposition to Britain-Northern Ireland peace process through the 80-s and 90-s. He used to be the general secretary of the editorial board of the journal Labour Briefing, which openly supported IRA terrorism. Corbyn surrounds himself with like-minded extremists like John McDonnell, an opponent of diplomatic peace process as recently as 1998. Corbyn is rather openly pro-Iran and pro-Putin (he used to be paid to appear on Iranian state TV with anti-Western opinion pieces), he has a record of endorsing anti-Semites and Islamic extremists like the head of the Islamic Movement in Israel Raed Sallah. Corbyn invited Hamas and Hezbollah representatives as guests to the British parliament and referred to them as his friends. He is a long-time backer of Holocaust denier Paul Eisen, not in the distant past but as recently as 2013.

So, your problem with him is, he is an extremist?
Oh hey, I don't like extremists, no matter their stripe.

One thing to watch for if you want to know where things are headed is the surge of abusive and violent Labor activism and the number of attacks and intimidation displays, which coincided with Corbyn's rise in the Labour. The reason is simple: Corbyn's rise is a hostile takeover of the Labour by the extreme Left, which joined the Labour party in order to consume it from within. The left-wing brownshirts are on the rise in Britain and Corbyn is their leader.

So, you are afraid of the left acting like the way the right has for years?
That's a fair concern, if the left acted like the right, you would be screwed. I'm sorry, but I have watched the "right" be the brown shirt bully boys for -years-, and while they are accepted as a political norm, the left responding in kind is seen as a catastrophic threat.
Quite frankly, the last thing the right wants is the left to -ACT LIKE THEM-

2- Why people voted Corbyn? Many didn't. They voted against the Tories, and for whichever party was not-Tories. Brexit and economic recession have people in Britain worried, the Tories are the sitting government so they get the blame for whatever happens under their rule, and Corbyn sits pretty promising to fight Brexit (which he was in favor of for many years) and resist austerity (but never quite explaining where he plans to get the money). People don't like being promises pain, sweat and tears and many fall for promises of free lunch and magic that makes the bad stuff go away.

All you are doing is proving my point, people did not vote for Corbyn, they voted against May.

3 - Second most powerful country of the West falling to left-wing extremism - does it really require explanation why it's bad for the West?

What, as opposed THE most powerful, by magnitudes higher, falling to right wing extremism? Let me guess, they are not extreme, they are "responsible"??

4 - Corbynista? I need to explain (let alone help you spell)? I do believe you are better informed than that. I will only explain that one as a last resort.

I assume you mean something akin to the Trumpeistia, or the Hillaryiesta.

5- I've spent the last many years explaining why Obama was so bad. Need I repeat myself?

You have explained, at length, why Obama was bad for Israel, not so much the rest of the world. Europe was pretty happy with him, Australasia was pretty cool with him as well. Africa had no major issues either, but sure, you tell me how the majority of the world has no issue, but yours is hyper important, go for it.

6- Same regarding Trump.

Really?
Was Israel ever concerned with Obama leaking highly classified intel to Israel's political opponents?

[Womble]

So, you are afraid of the left acting like the way the right has for years?

That's a fair concern, if the left acted like the right, you would be screwed. I'm sorry, but I have watched the "right" be the brown shirt bully boys for -years-, and while they are accepted as a political norm, the left responding in kind is seen as a catastrophic threat.
Quite frankly, the last thing the right wants is the left to -ACT LIKE THEM-[/quote]
Leftist brownshirts have been around for as long as the left-right divide was, since the French revolution and associated bloodshed. They are nothing new on the scene.

For a time - a fairly short time - pacifism of various degrees of aggressiveness (not a typo) was something of a hallmark of the Left. They had plenty of bully boys on the fringe (if we look at the second half of the 20th century, there have been far more left-wing terrorist groups in the Western world than there have been right-wing ones), but in general, the mainstream Left positioned itself as anti-war and anti-violence. Cry-bullying and demands for safe spaces was their way to suppress the opponents' speech. In Britain, this is changing with Corbyn's takeover of the Labor just as in the USA, it began to change with Obama ("Black Lives Matter" is an obvious attempt to mainstream race riots). The last time a Western country saw this level of street clashes between thugs from both sides of the spectrum was back in the Weimar republic. I find that worrying.

All you are doing is proving my point, people did not vote for Corbyn, they voted against May.

Hit the owl with the log, hit the log with the owl, either way the owl dies. My problem is with the end result of the vote; the process is fast becoming irrelevant.

What, as opposed THE most powerful, by magnitudes higher, falling to right wing extremism? Let me guess, they are not extreme, they are "responsible"??

I am not sure which rock you've been living under. I've been the first to criticize anything Trump and even in this post, I've ranked his election as a greater disaster than Corbyn's de-facto victory.

I assume you mean something akin to the Trumpeistia, or the Hillaryiesta.

Okay, so I do need to explain, since you don't seem to realize why no one uses that particular suffix for supporters of Trump or Clinton.

The -ista suffix comes from the Spanish language, and in political context it's a reference to one of the former leftist cause celebre - the National Liberation Front of Nicaragua, headed by Augusto César Sandino. They were commonly referred to as the Sandinistas, meaning followers of Sandino. Support for the Sandinistas was a widespread leftist fashion at the time. The -ista suffix, therefore, mockingly invokes the image of a small gang of ferociously dedicated followers of a trendy left-wing populist and/or trendy populist left-wing cause. (Outside of political context it's a mocking reference to blind followers of various social trends; example- "fashionista").

References to followers of non-leftist causes or leaders usually draw on a different context and therefore use a different suffix. Compare: Marxist, Thatcherite, Luddite, Orwellian, Churchillian.

On a side note, I can't believe I need to give an Engllish lesson to a native speaker.

You have explained, at length, why Obama was bad for Israel, not so much the rest of the world. Europe was pretty happy with him, Australasia was pretty cool with him as well. Africa had no major issues either, but sure, you tell me how the majority of the world has no issue, but yours is hyper important, go for it.

Obama was bad for the world for all the same reasons why he was bad for Israel. His foreign policy was a disaster across the board. Eastern Europe was not happy with his acquiescence to every possible Russian demand for the sake of his attempt at "reset", and it was under Obama and because of his policies that Russia felt confident to engage in power plays like the annexation of Crimea, engineering a pseudo-civil war in eastern Ukraine and direct intervention in Syria (and, increasingly, Libya and everywhere else where Obama's feckless policies created a power vacuum). Western Europe loved him mainly for who he was and for how he spoke; the things that he did are hardly remembered fondly. The "effectiveness" of his lobbying against Brexit is a fine example. For the Arab states, Obama was an unmitigated disaster because he misread and mishandled the living daylights out of the Arab spring, especially in Syria and Egypt. His Iran deal essentially engineered the rise of Iran as the dominant power in Central Asia. Premature USA withdrawal from Iraq left the country vulnerable to ISIS. Obama's "Pacific shift" never materialized but his refusal to back allies like Taiwan and the Philippines against China was noted. Africa probably doesn't hate Obama, but that is mainly because Obama's foreign policy barely had Africa on the radar.

Really?
Was Israel ever concerned with Obama leaking highly classified intel to Israel's political opponents?

Uh, yes. And yes. And with deliberate intent to cause Israel harm, unlike Trump.

[Annoyed]

What of lynch or holder? And yes he might have only met with obama twice, but why didn't he note take on those 2 meetings? Why only start with Trump?

I'm not sure I believe his claim that he didn't take notes w/ Obama. Several months back, when it became public knowledge that he had taken notes, I recall reading at least one possibly more news articles where someone who was familiar with Comey's habits was interviewed and that person stated that Comey habitually took notes, regardless of whom he was meeting with.
I know, a minor point, but it is an inconsistency in his testimony. Or perhaps the interviewee in the prior article had it wrong. I certainly can't recall the details of where the article was at this late date.

[Ian-S]

One thing to watch for if you want to know where things are headed is the surge of abusive and violent Labor activism and the number of attacks and intimidation displays, which coincided with Corbyn's rise in the Labour.

There hasn't been much, if anything it's the SNP and the Tories that operate a far more prolific style of rule by the stick, SNP will expell anybody who questions upper management, Tories will just shout louder than you, or roll out the "now is not the time" bulldozer and walk/drive off.

[SoulReaver]

Corbyn is as bad a lefty extremist as Britain has ever produced

and pro-Putin

would that make trump also a lefty extremist?

[garhkal]

He was being a good republican soldier, muddying the waters on an investigation about Russia with an investigation about Hillary. In essence, what you are saying is that republicans should seriously STFU about "but Hillary". I was watching the little toad tucker Carlson today, and all it was, was "But Hillary". Perhaps the republicans still bringing her up should listen to you................. Oh hey, don't you and Annoyed often say "but Hillary"?

From my watching of John in the past 5 years he seems to spend more time fighting against republicans than 'being a good republican' solider. In fact i feel he is a good DEM..

The big take-away was the total collapse of the UKIP party, and the fact that more of them went Labour than Tory than expected. A bit of buyers remorse perhaps?

This afternoon's outnumbered had the same thought. Was this vote a 2nd referendum on brexit..

I'm not sure I believe his claim that he didn't take notes w/ Obama. Several months back, when it became public knowledge that he had taken notes, I recall reading at least one possibly more news articles where someone who was familiar with Comey's habits was interviewed and that person stated that Comey habitually took notes, regardless of whom he was meeting with.
I know, a minor point, but it is an inconsistency in his testimony. Or perhaps the interviewee in the prior article had it wrong. I certainly can't recall the details of where the article was at this late date.

So was he lying back then, or did he lie yesterday?

[Annoyed]

So was he lying back then, or did he lie yesterday?

I think the real question is was the interviewee a while back, who said he takes notes on everything wrong or lying, or is Comey lying now.

[jelgate]

Or did you take it out of context?

[Womble]

would that make trump also a lefty extremist?

No. It just means that he shares a single trait with lefty extremists.

An elephant and a wild boar both have tusks; that doesn't make a wild boar a species of elephant.

[SoulReaver]

No. It just means that he shares a single trait with lefty extremists.

An elephant and a wild boar both have tusks; that doesn't make a wild boar a species of elephant.

Putin's a lot more than a pair of tusks though

[Womble]

Putin's a lot more than a pair of tusks though

Putin is admired by figures from both left and right - anyone with a taste for authoritarianism, basically. The right-wing extremists marvel at him as an example of a strong leader that they would like to install in their country; the left-wing extremists marvel at him because he positions himself as the prime opponent of their favorite enemy- their own country. But convergence of sympathies for Putin does not mean convergence of ideologies on a deeper level.

[Gatefan1976]

https://theintercept.com/2017/06/10/...ll-unleash-it/

[SoulReaver]

Putin is admired by figures from both left and right - anyone with a taste for authoritarianism, basically. The right-wing extremists marvel at him as an example of a strong leader that they would like to install in their country; the left-wing extremists marvel at him because he positions himself as the prime opponent of their favorite enemy- their own country. But convergence of sympathies for Putin does not mean convergence of ideologies on a deeper level.

but that's precisely the interesting part both camps don't just like him they marvel at him. that level of worship implies you approve of virtually everything about the man not just some aspects. which means 1 of 2 things, either 1) both camps have a lot in common (ideologically), or 2) 1 of the camps seriously misunderstands him and if so, which one?

[Gatefan1976]

I'm special, I get two scoops of ice cream

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