The Political Discussion Thread

[aretood2]

Venezuela's an odd case (is it possible to have a dictatorship without capital punishment? (historical examples?))
in theory Chile's also supposed to be going democratic...since 1990 :/

Latin American populists came up with an excellent solution to that issue. It's called "disappearances". You simply get disappeared. how many disappearances have occurred in Chile recently? It's a far cry from Chile back in the 80's. A lot of claims to the contrary are very technical. I mean...remember the student protests? How the government tried to negotiate with them multiple times instead of declaring them terrorists and shooting or something (like Trump does, well not shooting but Garhkal and Annoyed certainly wouldn't mind that part as long as Trump tells them they were "looting").

[Gatefan1976]

But until then, it's better for them if they let us pay for it, right?

It's not a one sided deal. You pay a bit for Europe's defence, you don't give away all of the -continent- to Russia, and you get allies, spies, and extra military you can call on for coalitions. You also get to claim the title of leader of the free world and look good doing it, and we will forgive your MANY mistakes.

There's a lot of truth in that article Womble posted about the working stiffs in the US feeling like they've been getting the shaft from our international dealings such as NAFTA and other Free trade crap, the Paris deal, which would have cost US energy consumers a fair bit, depending upon whom you listen to.

I don't doubt that the working stiff in the US believes that stuff.

How do you think Trump got elected? No one else was listening to those concerns, which affect a large # of voters.

Err, because you -thought- he was listening to you.

[SoulReaver]

Latin American populists came up with an excellent solution to that issue. It's called "disappearances". You simply get disappeared. how many disappearances have occurred in Chile recently? It's a far cry from Chile back in the 80's. A lot of claims to the contrary are very technical. I mean...remember the student protests? How the government tried to negotiate with them multiple times instead of declaring them terrorists and shooting or something (like Trump does, well not shooting but Garhkal and Annoyed certainly wouldn't mind that part as long as Trump tells them they were "looting").

but then it's still de facto capital punishment isn't it? the state doesn't respect its own laws

[SoulReaver]

Err, because you -thought- he was listening to you.

ah but he does listen to the commonfolk (and he LOLs)

[Gatefan1976]

It's why he loves the stupid and ill-informed. Hell, in his own book he says makes friends with the stupid, that way you will always be the smartest person in the room.

[jelgate]

What if you're the stupidest person in the room?

[aretood2]

But until then, it's better for them if they let us pay for it, right?

There's a lot of truth in that article Womble posted about the working stiffs in the US feeling like they've been getting the shaft from our international dealings such as NAFTA and other Free trade crap, the Paris deal, which would have cost US energy consumers a fair bit, depending upon whom you listen to.

How do you think Trump got elected? No one else was listening to those concerns, which affect a large # of voters.

You should really look up what average Mexicans think about NAFTA. I'll give you the cliftnotes. They hate it. It did everything from taking agricultural jobs to poisoning the water, burning the villages and raping the women. No really, that is honestly the view of NAFTA down there. Sure, just like up here, you have people down there who say it did good and Mexico's economy improved because of it (just like it did here). Down there it's the same complaints and praises as you'll find here. What does that tell you?

[aretood2]

but then it's still de facto capital punishment isn't it? the state doesn't respect its own laws

Pretty much. It's associated with populist regimes in Latin America. Of course the communist ones just go for hard labor style prisons (another thing that our resident populists are in favor of). I mean, you really need to watch videos about Maduro (Current populist leader of Venezuela) the similarities with Trump are just uncanny. Maduro is basically Chavez 2.0.

[garhkal]

G-man YOU DO understand that there are a series of interlocking laws that sit on top of the Constitution, right? I am not subject to your constitution because I am neither in your country, nor am I seeking to move, or request refugee status to your country.

Actually, no you are NOT.
A) you are not in the us
B) you are not a citizen, non-citizen or resident
Even if you ARE trying to get refugee status, that doesn't automatically mean you count under our constitution..

No, you were right the first time. Article 1/10 does not apply IF they do not make a treaty. All the states have to do is create standardised laws and use powers granted to them such as zoning and ordinance laws to avoid it. you are right in saying that they cannot "officially" negotiate with the rest of the world, but that's it.

True, they can just make laws locally, but those states were saying "Well, fine if Trump doesn't want to be in that accord, WE will be", which is them making a treaty.

That suggests that U.S. costs are high due to general inefficiency -- inefficient project management, an inefficient government contracting process, and inefficient regulation. It suggests that construction, like health care or asset management or education, is an area where Americans have simply ponied up more and more cash over the years while ignoring the fact that they were getting less and less for their money. To fix the problems choking U.S. construction, reformers are going to have to go through the system and rip out the inefficiencies root and branch.

The sheer # of times i have seen the local road works people RIP UP THE SAME stretch of road to 'repair/replace' it, some times 3 times a bloody year, while dozens of other areas go untouched, just goes to PROVE the level of inefficiency and ineptitude..

Unfortunately, this is going to be hard, given all the vested interests and institutional inertia blocking deep reform of the construction sector. As Yglesias ruefully notes, a study by the Government Accountability Office looking into the problem of high train-construction costs was recently killed by Congress, with no explanation given

Plus all those in power who get kick backs from the various groups funding them to get those contracts will get 'told to stop any' cleaning up of those rules..

Howcome there was no outcry when Ted Nugent said all those awful things about Obama?

IIRC he did get some outcry from us conservatives here. Though personally i can't remember if i even heard about it/let alone comment on it..

And FOX NEWS

Well they really do chase down the big issues.

Wonder woman isn't American enough.......

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7770726.html

Better not tell them that Superman is basically an illegal immigrant too.... And he was created by two immigrants.... Ssssshhhhhhh

Some people complain about the littlest things..

Says who???

China has managed to create an apparently successful hybrid model- it managed to largely liberalize its economy without liberalizing its society. Their model is arguably the most attractive one right now for transitioning societies - it promises all the economic benefits of modernized economy with none of the burdens and weaknesses of democracy. It is also far less traumatic than transitioning to a full-on free society.

Nobody bets on a weak horse, and free societies are in decline. Examples of democratic states inching towards authoritarian rule are plentiful these days, but when was the last time you've heard of an authoritarian state transitioning into democracy?

Very true womble. IIRC the last country that went from authoritarian to democracy was iraq. Since then iirc we have had at least 3 countries go the other way around..

[Annoyed]

You should really look up what average Mexicans think about NAFTA. I'll give you the cliftnotes. They hate it. It did everything from taking agricultural jobs to poisoning the water, burning the villages and raping the women. No really, that is honestly the view of NAFTA down there. Sure, just like up here, you have people down there who say it did good and Mexico's economy improved because of it (just like it did here). Down there it's the same complaints and praises as you'll find here. What does that tell you?

That the people who benefit are the wealthy; corporate boardroom types, stock churners, and so forth.
Didn't know we were supposed to be running the country(s?) for their benefit.

[jelgate]

Could of fooled me based on who you voted for

[Gatefan1976]

Global warming is not real, Paris accords are wrong, right trump?
Oh, except when it affects you directly, right?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-course-223436

[Annoyed]

Could of fooled me based on who you voted for

I said before the election that Trump was a roll of the dice. But he was and still is the only one making the proper noises on things like trade and treaties.

[Gatefan1976]

like these ones:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7771386.html

[jelgate]

I said before the election that Trump was a roll of the dice. But he was and still is the only one making the proper noises on things like trade and treaties.

Only when it helps him not the country