The Political Discussion Thread

[pscard]

obamacare

r.i.p.

[pscard]

I clearly remember Trump saying pre-existing conditions will NOT be a factor. Was I mistaken?

From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/05/health...ng-conditions/

[Annoyed]

I clearly remember Trump saying pre-existing conditions will NOT be a factor. Was I mistaken?

From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/05/health...ng-conditions/

No, you were not.
These waivers for the states to set up higher cost risk pools to charge people with pre-existing conditions more is one of the last minute add-ons that were added before the House voted on it this time. One reason among many that I don't support this mess that the House passed.

Here's a few dots I haven't seen connected yet...
We as a race are gaining the ability to see genetic markers for cancers and other hereditary diseases. IF the practice of charging people with pre-existing conditions is upheld, and it becomes "the standard", how long before insurers start demanding genetic screenings before quoting for a policy? And wasn't there just such an attempt to grant them (or somebody) that right in the news recently?

[SoulReaver]

obamacare

r.i.p.

americans

r.i.p

[Annoyed]

americans

r.i.p

Relax. This bill will not get senate approval as it stands now. But since the House passed it, next it falls to the Senate, which has already said they will rewrite it. And then what comes out of the Senate will have to be reviewed by a joint committee of both the House and the Senate, with either chamber being able to say no if they don't come to an agreement.

It is far too soon to have any idea what the finished legislation will contain.

[Gatecat]

According to this bill pregnancy is a pre-existing condition. So, effectively every woman not in her menopause yet, gets punished for the possibility of having children. What was that about pro-life? Ah, right as long as the kid is in the mother's belly, after that it's sink or swim...

Another one would be acne. Seriously? Acne? What's healthcare for if they are not going to pay for anything anyway?

[garhkal]

That law is to get rid of an undesirable costumer. If I have a grocery store and you come in upsetting costumers by shouting at them and making slurs of some kind, I shouldn't have to serve you. If you come in acting civilized but just spent the night insulting my mother online, I don't have to serve you. But I can't simply refuse to serve you because of your background, beliefs, or what you're attracted to or if you believe you are a toaster or some made up gender.

However, if i run a business and cause of my religious beliefs, i feel it would be dishonoring them to cater you cause of X, should i be forced to ignore those beliefs and cater to you?
Or should i have the ok to say "sorry but i can't do x for you sir. However i can sell you the stuff and you can do X on your own"..

Well one interpretation of "Take America Back" is "Take America back from the blacks and hispanics"...

And its not MY fault that they are making a wrong interpretation, and using that to label me a racist, pro KKK type white power nut job (PS Pharo cause of that is now on my ignore list)..

I don't know much about that. Do they tell them to support specific canidates like evangelicals do? Or is this just a way to get people voting who otherwise wouldn't vote? One is political in nature the other is just promoting civic virtue.

From the TV spots from local news, it did seem like a # of those churches doing those "Registration drives, bus people to the polling station" and the like, were very vocal about what candidate they were supporting.. SO it COULD be seen that "peer pressure" would thus make those who did partake in the offered bus ride/registration drive, would make them more likely to vote for that candidate..

[Annoyed]

According to this bill pregnancy is a pre-existing condition. So, effectively every woman not in her menopause yet, gets punished for the possibility of having children. What was that about pro-life? Ah, right as long as the kid is in the mother's belly, after that it's sink or swim...

Another one would be acne. Seriously? Acne? What's healthcare for if they are not going to pay for anything anyway?

Did you see what I posted earlier?

Here's a few dots I haven't seen connected yet...
We as a race are gaining the ability to see genetic markers for cancers and other hereditary diseases. IF the practice of charging people with pre-existing conditions is upheld, and it becomes "the standard", how long before insurers start demanding genetic screenings before quoting for a policy? And wasn't there just such an attempt to grant them (or somebody) that right in the news recently?

Give it 15-20 years and they will have your complete record, including genetic DNA data in a central database somewhere. If you try to get a job w/ healthcare benefits, the potential employer or his insurance carrier will consult that database and see if you have any genetic markers for cancer, diabetes or whatever.
The same if you want to buy insurance on the private marketplace. Got markers for something expensive? Sorry, bud, you're outta here.

[Coco Pops]

Oh boy you guys sure are winning.....

How does that feel?

[garhkal]

Heck, can you imagine if they get that sort of database up and running.

"Welcome to company X, please submit your approval for us to access your genetic code, before proceeding to filling out a job application"..

And in 2 new peeves..
First up comes a woman in San diego, who got busted for HOUSING (and getting paid by the human smugglers) 44 illegal aliens.. And after being busted, all she got was a measly 3 years 1 mo in jail??
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...504-story.html

And 2nd up, was yet ANOTHER faked hate crime. And all the faker may get is a paltry 1 year and 5k fine..
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/wir...1a5d549b3.html

[Womble]

That's the thing, these are the kinds of people that are being banned from universities. People who are believed to end up inciting violence. Sure, they may not be speaking (openly) about denial of the holocaust, but what they do basically amounts to similar situations. I am not a fan of just shutting people up, especially if invited by students. But a line must be drawn, something your country seems to agree with. The question is exactly where and at what cost.

That is true, of course.

Speaking of that, Nassim Nicholas Taleb, the mathematician who wrote "The Black Swan", has an important essay on the subject which shows how stubbornly intolerant minorities can gain enough leverage to transform a tolerant country in their image:

The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority.

I was at a large multi-table dinner party, the kind of situation where you have to choose between the vegetarian risotto and the non-vegetarian option when I noticed that my neighbor had his food catered (including silverware) on a tray reminiscent of airplane fare. The dishes were sealed with aluminum foil. He was evidently ultra-Kosher. It did not bother him to be seated with prosciutto eaters who, in addition, mix butter and meat in the same dishes. He just wanted to be left alone to follow his own preferences.

For Jews and Muslim minorities such as Shiites, Sufis, and associated religions such as Druze and Alawis, the aim is for people to leave them alone so they can satisfy their own dietary preferences –largely, with historical exceptions here and there. But had my neighbor been a Sunni Salafi, he would have required the entire room to be eating Halal. Perhaps the entire building. Perhaps the entire town. Hopefully the entire country. Hopefully the entire planet. Indeed, given the total lack of separation between church and state, and between the holy and the profane (Chapter x), to him Haram (the opposite of Halal) means literally illegal. The entire room was committing a legal violation.

As I am writing these lines, people are disputing whether the freedom of the enlightened West can be undermined by the intrusive policies that would be needed to fight fundamentalists.As I am writing these lines, people are disputing whether the freedom of the enlightened West can be undermined by the intrusive policies that would be needed to fight Salafi fundamentalists.

Clearly can democracy –by definition the majority?—?tolerate enemies? The question is as follows: “ Would you agree to deny the freedom of speech to every political party that has in its charter the banning the freedom of speech?” Let’s go one step further, “Should a society that has elected to be tolerant be intolerant about intolerance?”
...

So, we need to be more than intolerant with some intolerant minorities. It is not permissible to use “American values” or “Western principles” in treating intolerant Salafism (which denies other peoples’ right to have their own religion). The West is currently in the process of committing suicide.

[Coco Pops]

The FCC investigates Colbert.

Wow priorities there people. The real big issues. /s

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ump-putin-joke

[Annoyed]

Heck, can you imagine if they get that sort of database up and running.

"Welcome to company X, please submit your approval for us to access your genetic code, before proceeding to filling out a job application"..

It will be worse than that.
They'll already have access to the data, with or without your permission. HR will match you up to your record, and if your genetics show markers for anything expensive, your resume will be sent to /dev/null or otherwise discarded.
Same for the insurance industry if he tries to get coverage on his own. The insurance underwriters will consider it to be pre-existing, and if the laws of the land allow special treatment for pre-existings, there is their legally defensible reason for denying coverage.

I believe in the free market system, but this is over the line. The basic idea behind insurance is to spread the risk among a group of people so if any one person has a problem, he doesn't bear the cost alone. This applies to fire, flood, homeowners or any other kind of insurance.
This will just be the insurers cherry picking the most profitable customers and to hell with everyone else.

[SoulReaver]

Would you agree to deny the freedom of speech to every political party that has in its charter the banning the freedom of speech?

nope

[Annoyed]

From the TV spots from local news, it did seem like a # of those churches doing those "Registration drives, bus people to the polling station" and the like, were very vocal about what candidate they were supporting.. SO it COULD be seen that "peer pressure" would thus make those who did partake in the offered bus ride/registration drive, would make them more likely to vote for that candidate..

Succumbing to peer pressure is always the fault of the person who succumbs.

"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." --Robert A. Heinlein via his character Lazarus Long.