The Political Discussion Thread

[garhkal]

I'm so used to you disagreeing with me I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not But yes, I never would agree with that one-child policy or population control - its against humanity and the human spirit.

In other news - kind of shocked by how bad it is getting for the left all across the board: Guardian media group hit with record £173M loss.. considering that's the UK's flagship leftist newspaper it just shows people are leaving it in droves https://next.ft.com/content/f5be593a...4-e0bdc13c3bef

If you consider it's centre-right rival the Daily Mail is worth 2 billion and growing (and was considering acquiring Yahoo before Verizon did recently), it shows people no longer trust leftist media. After the US election is settled, I think we should expect to see massive changes in reporting.

Wow.. A leftists news paper falling out, while a somewhat right wing one does well.. Whoda thunk.

So say we all.

So say we all!

Saw something earlier in my twitter feed about minimum wage, something 7 dollar 95 per hour... but that's probably not what the immigrants get since that's an official number.

And if it comes to jobs, a lot of it can be "beneath" someone depending on what level they are.

True. At one job fair i went to, one of the firms at the fair, was a recycling firm looking to get 200 or so workers, so they could expand into 3 new facilities.. 12.50 an hr pay starting. And a LOT of people just flat out passed them by/ignored them..

My sister always likes to wait until managers or paralegals stop talking about her being just the secretary which is work that is beneath them, and then she drops the "Point in fact, I have two master degrees, Assyriology and Management." -- BOOM Y'ALL!!

And what did she get that first degree for??

Also, as we were talking about Japan earlier:

Japan knife attack: 15 reportedly dead

Saw that on the ticker. Strange, cause they had that, but i didn't see anything about a supposed machette attack by a Syrian refugee (who supposedly got denied asylum earlier this year), or a bombing in a separate german town, again by another refugee.. Damn near EVERY news channel was dominated by the DNC. Heck even BBC world news was practically nothing but the DNC this evening...

Good Idea.
How are you going to do it?

Do what, enforce the laws we have that are often being ignored??
For one, start forcing E-verify. For another, snap checks by the INS on companies known to have hired illegals in the past.. Compare ID's shown to whats in the bloody data bases..

But technology, alongside education, is one of the reasons behind falling birth rate!

The reason people used to have many children was to secure their future. The family needed to have working men in order to sustain itself, especially in agricultural village life. Large families were a survival necessity. Plus children died often from diseases and malnutrition. If you look back as recently as the 19th century, at the biographies of famous writers, politicians etc., almost all of them had one or more children die. And they were rich people with the best life conditions for their time. The poor people's children died by the dozen. There is a graveyard in the north of Israel, in the Hula valley, where a single family buried 13 children who died from malaria.

Technology and social development reduced the need for children. The wealthier a society is, the safer it is, the more developed its technology, the less need people feel for a large family, or for a family at all. When having children is no longer the sole means of securing your future when you grow old, when you have social security and retirement funds etc., having children becomes a luxury that many decide they do not need anymore. People want to "live for themselves", or delay childbearing to years when they are no longer very likely to conceive, or have one child and that's it.

And yet, which demographic of society seems to keep having babies like burgers at a tailgate party.. The poor (which are also often the less educated).. Idiocracy here we come...

[Womble]

And yet, which demographic of society seems to keep having babies like burgers at a tailgate party.. The poor (which are also often the less educated).. Idiocracy here we come...

It's not "yet", it's "that's why". Poorer, less educated people always have more children, in every society. In part because in the absence of wealth, family is the social safety net that keeps them afloat and gives a chance, however slim, of upwards mobility. One person in the family getting out of poverty is likely to help others, too. In part because poor people don't feel the need to delay childbirth until they've completed education and established themselves in their career because they don't feel like either is in the cards for them at all.

[Gatefan1976]

Do what, enforce the laws we have that are often being ignored??
For one, start forcing E-verify. For another, snap checks by the INS on companies known to have hired illegals in the past.. Compare ID's shown to whats in the bloody data bases..

Ummm...............
Are you asking for big government to step on states rights?

[thekillman]

Also, as we were talking about Japan earlier:

Japan knife attack: 15 reportedly dead

If only everyone had a knife

[Gatefan1976]

*Snort*

[Coco Pops]

If only everyone had a knife

Don't we have to ban them first?

[Annoyed]

In part because poor people don't feel the need to delay childbirth until they've completed education and established themselves in their career because they don't feel like either is in the cards for them at all.

Maybe that has something to do with their having a difficult time climbing out of poverty?

[Falcon Horus]

So you would not want Clinton to drop out? Why? Trump is ahead even on CNN polls. Just trying to understand your thinking here.

See below.

This isn't the primaries anymore, she is, like it or not, the duly appointed democratic candidate, she will not just "drop out".

Lumpy, is that you?

It also shows you don't need a gun to do damage, that's for sure.

It's every day news, or almost every day news in Israel, although it's been a while now.

Bernie just smashed a home run at the DNC.

He did indeed.
Though, got the Cruz-treatment from his more avid supporters.

Did he tell how his voters were going to join Trump?

Sorry I couldn't resist.

[Falcon Horus]

And what did she get that first degree for??

Interested in the history and archaeology of Mesopotamia.
And what's not to love about learning Cuneiform and Arameic.

Hey, I started out with archaeology too.

Saw that on the ticker. Strange, cause they had that, but i didn't see anything about a supposed machette attack by a Syrian refugee (who supposedly got denied asylum earlier this year), or a bombing in a separate german town, again by another refugee.. Damn near EVERY news channel was dominated by the DNC. Heck even BBC world news was practically nothing but the DNC this evening...

The machete attack was a crime of passion, and the other was a depressed refugee who's asylum had been declined and was asked to leave the country. He blew himself up outside of a winebar, killing himself and injuring a dozen people.

[Nirude]

If only everyone had a knife

Well of course some on the right have already said "if only they had guns". But for this situation, a gun or knife wouldn't have helped as he killed disabled people while they were sleeping - what would of stopped him is someone triggering a security alarm upon him entering the facility.

Anyways, I'm glad it didn't happen in a school - as those tend to bring out the crazies for awhile. But still, this is all very rare, I can count most knife incidents like this on my fingers down to about year 2000.

Saw that on the ticker. Strange, cause they had that, but i didn't see anything about a supposed machette attack by a Syrian refugee (who supposedly got denied asylum earlier this year), or a bombing in a separate german town, again by another refugee..

Don't expect suicide bombers (the new normal in Europe) to be covered unless they actually kill someone other than themselves

And just now an attack on a church in France where a priest was beheaded by islamists. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-church.html

But technology, alongside education, is one of the reasons behind falling birth rate!

Disagree, I know what you're saying, and it's right in some respects, but to me birthrate is mainly affected by the social-political climate. Technology will only help birthrate in the future.

It will get better first with an improved stimulus, and then stabilize and gradually just improve naturally as Japanese society changes and becomes itself again. Maybe difficult to see from your view point.

The reason people used to have many children was to secure their future. The family needed to have working men in order to sustain itself, especially in agricultural village life. Large families were a survival necessity. Plus children died often from diseases and malnutrition. If you look back as recently as the 19th century, at the biographies of famous writers, politicians etc., almost all of them had one or more children die. And they were rich people with the best life conditions for their time. The poor people's children died by the dozen. There is a graveyard in the north of Israel, in the Hula valley, where a single family buried 13 children who died from malaria.

Yes I am aware of this, but it will have little relevance in the future IMO.

People want to "live for themselves"

I don't think you can say everyone thinks like this. To some people, living for themselves is also bringing up something new.

Russia is an exceedingly scary regime these days.

No, not really Womble. It doesn't compare to what Clinton is doing/has done, sure we'll hear about that more over the campaign.

That's not integrity. It's something else. It's a demonstration that Sanders wasn't popular because he is Sanders but because he was expected to become the hard left's battering ram into mainstream.

I see too many parallels between Sanders and the UK's Corbyn, as well as the democrats and labour - we all know how that turned out. The Palestine flag I spotted in the DNC crowd was so cringy.

I don't think DNC will be as united as the RNC, seeing a lot of reports of discontent..

[Annoyed]

RNC ? United? Same sentence? Not this year.

[aretood2]

It's quite common in first world countries for native women to have a low birthrate - even more so in Japan as they rarely have kids outside of marriage. But that's not an excuse to import untold amounts of unknown foreign people though.

They rarely have kids inside of marriage...Low birthrates is one thing. Suicidal birthrates is an entirely different thing.

Yeah and I think that last sexism study (by the UN I think?) said something like it's better to be a woman in Saudi Arabia or some place instead of South Korea - its a complete fraud. I know where I want my kids that's for sure! The birthrate and sexism issues brought up in the foreign press are ultimately part of the globalist agenda to make countries more liberal and undermine national sovereignty - don't believe everything you read. Do you really think you can define sexism with some number using a formula chosen by the very people working for globalists? Also just saying "equal rights" doesn't necessarily mean that's what you get, I think even womble would agree with me on that Just like how the democrats are hardly democrats after I saw those leaked emails.. People do nasty things in the name of good.

You're going to have to slow down and think about who you are talking with before you randomly rant on your soapbox. As far as Womble agreeing with you, you are new so you may not realize what you are saying. As you may have already seen, its not gonna happen on this topic. In fact he has argued a similar point in the past regarding European birthrates.

As for your NWO conspiracy of the left, I'm not a liberal. Just ask FH. Several of my view points come from classical liberalism (You know, from the philosophes of the 17th century). Free Trade and migration of peoples is concept routed in that philosophy of the free market. We call that ideology Libertarianism here in the US. It's central tenant is that if there is true competition in a market, the free market will balance things out requiring little to no government involvement, and that combined with a small government leads to the highest amount of personal liberty for the people. Now, grant it, I am not ideologically pure, I am very much a moderate with Center views (in the Left/Right spectrum of American politics) with an outlier position or two.

It's not a coincidence Japan's birthrate started dropping as soon as they started working more closely with the Americans - starting with the Japanese constitution written by foreigners like Beate Sirota Gordon (women's rights advocate thought to actually be a communist). These values were foreign to the Japanese people and have ultimately harmed their spirit - which is why they're now planning to rewrite chunks of it to focus it more on the Japanese people. Good for them, if successful, with their national spirit regained, I predict the birthrate will actually go up in the future.

No, that's actually a result of Japans prosperity and success. Advance and rich civilizations accompany low birth rates and high incidence of suicides and social malaise. Mostly because of materialism. Just look at all developed nations and you can see it. From South Korea to France. Everything comes with a price and failure to acknowledge that price and deal with mitigating it, can only lead to a downward spiral a la Roman Empire (Both of them).

Do you know why Japanese women aren't getting married and having kids? It's not because of feminism. It's because of carriers and culture. Women being working moms is a very western ideology not adopted in Japan. Women are expected (and under intense social pressure) to drop their jobs and care for their kids for at least the first 3 years. Japanese women also are loosing interest in Japanese men...once again, the Hikikomori issue. Add that to the usual suspects of low birthrates in developed nations and that's you're cause. It's not poverty or lack of technology causing this. It's the opposite, in fact.

I'm not saying low birthrate isn't a bad thing, I'm just saying there are other ways to deal with it other than mass-immigration. But hey, if we suffer a rapture-like event I'll let you know..

There's only one solution. More people. And right now there are only two ways of having more people. Okay, I lied. Killing the old before they reach retirement age also works to solve the problem.

And NEET exist in all countries, not just Japan.

No one is saying Japan is unique, just used as an example.

I already read it before it was posted here actually.. when was the last time any leftys here read Breitbart? I read all sources.. even The Guardian *shivers*

A lot of the points are smear tactics.. A Trump supporter did something bad so it means Trump did it.. It's unconstitutional to deport those people they say, I say its unconstitutional to bring them here in the first place. Leftists like to create a huge mess and then complain and take the higher ground when someone wants to actually deal with the issue. And they said Trump says torturing someone is OK because they probably deserve it - that's hardly fascism, it's just a non-PC comment. I'd say they do deserve it if they're locked up on existing terrorism charges.

Do you know that torture is unconstitutional? You're not American, right? I can forgive you for not knowing some of these things. Forbidding entire groups of people from entering the US is also illegal here. Threatening to invade allies and neutral countries for resources is also, problematic. Desiring to curb the 1st amendment, also problematic. Forcing Christians who don't celebrate Christmas to say "merry Christmas" is also problematic (Of course Trump wouldn't have any idea such Christians exist being a secret Atheist and all). Leaving out military allies to dry and allying with oppressive regimes like Russia is also problematic. Not knowing who our enemies are, also problematic. The list of things you failed to deal with just goes on.

No, the population will stabilize then begin to grow again. By your logic, the human race would be at risk of dying out once the refugees dry up. And the future is different, as liberals like to remind me, it's 2016 (the current year!)


If you think forward a little.. Robots. And higher living standards due to technology and so on. I think we will see larger families in the future due to those, if you follow the tech start up scene in Asia there's so much cool stuff coming out that will completely change society for the better. Also the modernization of politics and the rejection of corrupt dangerous left-wingers.

People have been saying that society's ills will be miraculously solved by technological advancements since the 1800's. While things have improved, they have only bread other problems and failed to deal with existing problems to the extent predicted by technologists and futurists. Furthermore, their technological predictions have often come out flat. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Anyways this discussion is pointless as Japan has already rejected mass immigration, the people in the know are very up to date on the situation in Europe.

No, you just proved my point that Japan is closed to immigration...Okay. Well then, as I said, Japan is in a dire situation with its abysmal and still declining birth rates with no solution in sight.

"The Russians!"
The West, 1946-2016
[/QUOTE]

You'll find that Russians don't enjoy the same level of personal independence as Americans or most westerners do.

Yet even with that strictness, they still welcome expats...

What country doesn't welcome expats? The question is, do they want to go back in high enough numbers to make a difference?

Nirude did..

Yeah, that's weird. You should know that I don't consider immigrants and refugees to be in the same camp (pun, deal with it).

I guess i was taught wrong then...

All I know are the words Reagan said and wrote down himself.

Heck, imo even if they paid a competitive wage, a lot of Citizens would see those jobs as "Beneath' them...

Like I have said in the past. There are plenty of farmers in my area who pay decent wages for the work. Yet I have seen zero natural born citizens apply much less work for them, with the exception of some first generation Americans. I myself have made healthy amounts of money working the fields during the summers as I went to school. I made loads more than anyone working in retail. It doesn't compete with jobs that require college education or skilled labor, but as far as unskilled labor goes it pays well.


Not all farmers set out to hire illegal work and pay them scrap. That's...I don't know what word to use, but you get the point.

I've been calling for that fora while. Fine the crap out of those who hire ilegals to work.. Make the fine so costly, that no one wants to do it.

Employer laws historically get little traction no matter what they are.

Pretty much the same as I said to MG. We tried the soft approach in 1986. It failed, and miserably.
Now it's time to apply the sledgehammer.

Reagan would never agree on deporting so many people and breaking families. When he said that he believed in family values, he meant it. You don't seem to understand. It wasn't about immigration, it was a humanitarian stance. He was gun ho for tough border security measures and so on. He was in favor of deporting types of illegals and was in favor of strict immigration rules (such as deporting those who commit certain felonies, or felonies in general). He was, however, first and foremost a good man. And good men make choices based on morality, not just necessity. Though I am still confounded on his stance regarding South Africa.

RNC ? United? Same sentence? Not this year.

He says a lot of weird things like that.

[Nirude]

RNC ? United? Same sentence? Not this year.

I said RNC was more united than the DNC, as in the people generally seem happy with Trump, not that they were 100% united. I don't get the same feeling at all for Clinton at DNC. Wouldn't you agree?

Although I am starting to think democrats loyal to Clinton would vote for a corpse if it said it supported equal rights.

[Falcon Horus]

Don't expect suicide bombers (the new normal in Europe) to be covered unless they actually kill someone other than themselves

Funny you should say -- cause both the machete attack and bombing in Germany made the news.

And just now an attack on a church in France where a priest was beheaded by islamists. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-church.html

The priest's throat was cut, his head still attached I assume. And even that is still unconfirmed.
Police won't say anything.

Daesh already claimed it though -- they are claiming everything these days. Are they aware the dude in Nice drunk alcohol, had sex with both men and women -- who knew they were so tolerant.

No, not really Womble.

You'd think someone from a Russian decent would know. *points at Womble*

It doesn't compare to what Clinton is doing/has done, sure we'll hear about that more over the campaign.

The Palestine flag I spotted in the DNC crowd was so cringy.

What's that supposed to mean?

RNC ? United? Same sentence? Not this year.

What he said.

[aretood2]

What's that supposed to mean?

Oh Lord, not again. Nirude, your newness is not cool right now.