The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

What if you are a student?
What if you do not drive?
The point I am making Annoyed is that "photo ID" is not all equal. The laws are being changed to specifically exclude the photo ID that most minorities may have already. Drivers licence is accepted photo ID, Student card (also mostly state photo ID is not).
It's not the requirement of a "form of Photo ID" that is the issue here, its the deliberate narrowing of what is "accepted photo ID" purely to vote.

Yes you did and that's great, but I was pointing out that it is the Republican party who are doing this.

Did you not see I wrote "State driver's license or non-driver ID"

As far as students go, since they aren't registered residents of their school towns, I don't think they should be voting there. They should be voting in their location of permanent residence, with the same requirements of any other resident.

[aretood2]

And more than you suspect. Look where he is today. Primary voter support put him on top of 16? Republicans in the sorting process, despite the active opposition of the "establishment" Republican leadership, setting primary turnout records along the way.
That level of voter support hasn't been seen since the Reagan days. Despite his never ending outbreaks of foot in mouth disease he just keeps going forward.

I said this about brexit back when it was the hot topic too. The motivations for brexit are the same for Trump's support. A very large number of people are pissed as hell, and they're not going to keep going the way we are.

Not quite. He energized the red blooded republicans, the base. He also was used as a way to punish the GOP by tea partiers who were less concerned about getting a viable candidate than they were about screaming at the "establishment". The moderates and more traditional republicans were spread out among 15 other options. That tends to dilute the numbers a bit. Then throw in the media circus that gave Trump amazing publicity and name recognition. If Gary Johnson had as much coverage he would have been in the debates and polling way closer to 20%, maybe even enough to come in second.

As for brexit...Gatefan mentioned the buyer's remorse. Why did they have that? Because they didn't really think their vote counted and were just using it as a way to voice their anger, not to make a logical choice for the better of their "united" kingdom. Like I said, when you offer Jill Stein and Gary Johnson to the polls, you see Trump's support go from 40's down to less than 37%.

What, do you suggest everyone that merely claims to be eligible be allowed to vote? No registration, no nothing?
All I want is the registration system we have and a simple mandatory photo ID. Hell, you need that to buy beer in this country

But that's not what is being put forth. There is no simple mandatory photo ID law anywhere in the Union. All of these laws are a series of complex rules and actions that do specifically target certain groups. That's what everyone has been trying to say. If it was a simple mandatory photo ID law, then I wouldn't have that much of a gripe against it. Not many people would. What you saw in that link is just the tip of the iceberg.

There have been jurisdictions that send sheriffs to knock on people's doors demanding that they confirm their ID and residence and so on at a court in order to vote. The intimidation factor, plus the cost to get out of work to go to the court, plus the weird reason that the cops expect to find the person in the address that the courts don't believe they live in...it all serves as a way to keep certain people from the polls. Open your eyes, America stopped being a republic a long time ago. Make America great again? How about make it a republic again.

[Gatefan1976]

Did you not see I wrote "State driver's license or non-driver ID"

No matter how much you bold it, you are still not seeing the point. Laws are being changed to specifically disenfranchise minority voters, and despite your personal opinion that it should not happen, it is the party you support that is creating these laws.
Voting is a -constitutional right- to all legal citizens (including them horrible Anchor babies who are protected by the constitution as well), and such laws violate that.
Remember, Coco asked why race gets brought into this all the time, G-man asked for examples, and several people have now shown why and backed that up with credible sources.

As far as students go, since they aren't registered residents of their school towns, I don't think they should be voting there. They should be voting in their location of permanent residence, with the same requirements of any other resident.

Which disenfranchises -them- when you cut pre-voting or mail voting.

[garhkal]

If it is required it should be free.

Having a passport and drivers license are also required. Are either of them free??

So why did they want to change the law to only accept specific types of ID?

Maybe cause some of those other IDs are not PHOTO ids?

What if you are a student?

Well, since to take the SAT (which is something needed to get into colleges) you need photo ID for, then they should already have one.
Additionally, since we DO have plenty of students at colleges who are NOT US CITIZENS, and thus not allowed to vote here, then allowing a student ID on it's own, is not sufficient to ensure they are "Eligible to vote"..

What if you do not drive?

Do they have a bank account? Library card? Get prescriptions issued? Then they have ID.
If not, then they should be able to get an ID from a DMV that is NOT a drivers license..

[Gatefan1976]

Having a passport and drivers license are also required. Are either of them free??

No they are not.
Passports are required if you want to leave the country, Drivers licences are only required if you want to drive a motor vehicle.

Maybe cause some of those other IDs are not PHOTO ids?

Then they don't matter, it is the exclusion of certain photo ID's that is the issue, not the use of photo ID's. I have no issue at all with requiring photo ID, I have an issue with excluding some because "reasons"

Well, since to take the SAT (which is something needed to get into colleges) you need photo ID for, then they should already have one.

Exactly, a Photo ID that is not accepted.

Additionally, since we DO have plenty of students at colleges who are NOT US CITIZENS, and thus not allowed to vote here, then allowing a student ID on it's own, is not sufficient to ensure they are "Eligible to vote"..

So, you are saying that Polling station personel are incapable of reading a photo ID?

Do they have a bank account? Library card? Get prescriptions issued? Then they have ID.

Which is not accepted, the entire problem.

If not, then they should be able to get an ID from a DMV that is NOT a drivers license..

See what both I and Annoyed have said about states closing DMV's in minority neighbourhoods.

[thekillman]

Why is Trump so popular among the voters? And why is he so unpopular among the "establishment" ?

Good opinion piece here.

What Trump has in common with the Brexit vote

Maybe because he's a buffoon who backtracks on everything he says all the time?

The message seems to be that Hillary is bought, but Trump is "bought" by his own company. The message seems to be that Hillary is bought by the Rich, but they don't have to buy trump, he's part of that group already.

On the other hand, Trump couldn’t care less about their resume, pedigree, title or wealth. He’ll throw them out the door on their butts. They’ll get rich under Hillary. They’ll starve under President Trump.

Trump has already backstabbed numerous people that helped him. Why would anyone extend a hand to a guy who bites back?

She is owned by foreign governments and foreign companies.

As compared to Trump with investments in say, russia? A nation that has absolutely no major interests going on right now? (*cough*)

Trump won’t promise them a thing. You can’t bribe a man worth billions. He doesn’t need their dirty money.

Trump promises things all the time. Then changes price or backtracks on what he said, then claims he never said it. Remember what the wall costs? four, no, eight, no, twelve, no, twenty billion. Remember when he was pro gay-marriage? Why would anyone with any kind of interest in anything support or donate money to a candidate who can't keep a promise or price?

Every one of them can get anything they want from President Hillary or they will blackmail her.

As opposed to trump, who changed his stances on a number of things (aforementioned gay marriage for instance) when he switched to Republican? Remember when he was friends with the Clintons?

Trump doesn’t need money. He campaigns only on the raw politically incorrect truth.

That's not what the facts say (and fact checkers). He campaigns on politically incorrect lies.

Every oddsmaker predicted Brexit would lose. Every poll showed Brexit losing.

No, and there were quite a few close polls. It was predicted to be a tight call. It was just predicted to be a tight call on the remain side. And in the end it was a tight call on the brexit side.

Just like Brexit, the American people have had enough. They no longer listen to the mainstream media or the establishment politicians.

Mainstream media in Britain were pro-Brexit. Owned by Rupert Murdoch. And quite a few British politicians were Eurosceptics(though not outright anti-EU) themselves. Which is why their remain campaign sounded so hollow.

Are you so blind for your hatred for Clinton that you completely fail to see that Trump's the same? People conveniently forget he's a billionaire with the same kind of interests as all these named people. At worst it cuts out the middle (wo)man. Don't you understand that that's what infuriates people about Trump? You're like "i won't walk into THAT ditch" and then stride prideful into a swamp. It's this "it's only lying if Clinton does it" all over again. You're only allowed to make mistakes if you're not Clinton. You only have competing interests if you're Clinton, because Trump may be a billionaire but he's different from all the other billionaires we hate and consider corrupt!


TLDR:
-Trump can't keep a promise.
-Trump can't keep a price
-Trump has little support from his party.
-Trump's a billionaire and shares interests with the "establishment"

How can any business owner (who, above all, desire stability) of any magnitude give that guy money? You don't know what he stands for. His only parade piece ( the wall) is a laughable solution to the wrong problem (Illegals overstay visas. they legally stride past that wall, no ladders needed). Why would you donate money to such a guy? Not everything's automatically a conspiracy theory.

To be honest, you're a bit of a special case Annoyed, you already think the government is best when it's doing nothing. Well in that case Trump IS your best choice, i don't see anyone being able to run a government with such a guy. He doesn't even have support from his own party. Remember his stance on allies? "if they don't pay, we won't help you!" (republican backline: yes we will, of course we will).


Although, in a way, the brexit comparison is a good one: Brexit was brought to you by lies, and everyone part of it bailed once it was voted through. And guess what? still no Brexit. Still no idea of what Brexit looks like.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

So.. While Trump is staying up all night to abuse a woman on Twitter because he claims she once made a sex tape (which he really wants you to watch ).

Lets not forget that Trump once appeared in a professionally produced porn film. Himself. The tiny handed tangerine appeared in porn.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...deo-unearthed/

America is so lucky to have such a mature, respectable, fine upstanding pillar of the community be the Presidential Candidate, who if he wins will be the representative of the United States to the rest of the world.

[Annoyed]

No matter how much you bold it, you are still not seeing the point. Laws are being changed to specifically disenfranchise minority voters, and despite your personal opinion that it should not happen, it is the party you support that is creating these laws.
Voting is a -constitutional right- to all legal citizens (including them horrible Anchor babies who are protected by the constitution as well), and such laws violate that.
Remember, Coco asked why race gets brought into this all the time, G-man asked for examples, and several people have now shown why and backed that up with credible sources.

Ok, so the Republican party is doing this, or at least tacitly approving it. I won't deny it, there are more than enough known instances of shenanigans and most of the the time, it is Republican politicians engaging in them. And I've stated that they are wrong. Such as the situation where DMV offices were closed in high minority population areas. That's wrong.

I'm sure the Democrats do something, perhaps many things that you think are wrong. Would you vote Republican because of those things? Throw out what you mostly like because of a few items you don't?

As far as students go, since they aren't registered residents of their school towns, I don't think they should be voting there. They should be voting in their location of permanent residence, with the same requirements of any other resident.

Which disenfranchises -them- when you cut pre-voting or mail voting.

I never said stop absentee balloting. There are many legitimate reasons for it. The college student can register in person in his town of residence, showing his driver's lic. or non-driver ID for identification, then go off to collegetown and mail his ballot in to his home jurisdiction. This doesn't disenfranchise anybody.

[Womble]

So.. While Trump is staying up all night to abuse a woman on Twitter because he claims she once made a sex tape (which he really wants you to watch ).

I am still profoundly surprised that something like that is still considered compromising in 2016.

[Annoyed]

You still don't get it either, do you.

Everything is bad on the left side, but the ride side doing the exact same thing is okay. The environment in play or not.

The left and right are NOT doing the exact same thing.
Didn't this discussion start with the hypocrisy of the Left? It is not the right that is telling everyone they should pay carbon taxes, reducing energy production and all the other crap, while they themselves use whatever they want, is it?

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

I am still profoundly surprised that something like that is still considered compromising in 2016.

You would think a Presidential candidate would have better things to do with his time..

[Annoyed]

I am still profoundly surprised that something like that is still considered compromising in 2016.

Well, it depends. In 1996, when Bill Clinton had Monica "speak into the microphone" in the oval office I think it was, and then lied about it, it should have been overlooked. Not really relevant. In fact, a whole left wing web presence sprang from that, "moveon.org"

[Annoyed]

You would think a Presidential candidate would have better things to do with his time..

I don't recall Trump being involved in politics in 2000. That year was Bush & Gore.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

I don't recall Trump being involved in politics in 2000. That year was Bush & Gore.

I meant the staying up all night to abuse women on the internet.. That's happening right now..

[Annoyed]

Are you so blind for your hatred for Clinton that you completely fail to see that Trump's the same? People conveniently forget he's a billionaire with the same kind of interests as all these named people. At worst it cuts out the middle (wo)man. Don't you understand that that's what infuriates people about Trump? You're like "i won't walk into THAT ditch" and then stride prideful into a swamp. It's this "it's only lying if Clinton does it" all over again. You're only allowed to make mistakes if you're not Clinton. You only have competing interests if you're Clinton, because Trump may be a billionaire but he's different from all the other billionaires we hate and consider corrupt!


TLDR:
-Trump can't keep a promise.
-Trump can't keep a price
-Trump has little support from his party.
-Trump's a billionaire and shares interests with the "establishment"

How can any business owner (who, above all, desire stability) of any magnitude give that guy money? You don't know what he stands for. His only parade piece ( the wall) is a laughable solution to the wrong problem (Illegals overstay visas. they legally stride past that wall, no ladders needed). Why would you donate money to such a guy? Not everything's automatically a conspiracy theory.

To be honest, you're a bit of a special case Annoyed, you already think the government is best when it's doing nothing. Well in that case Trump IS your best choice, i don't see anyone being able to run a government with such a guy. He doesn't even have support from his own party. Remember his stance on allies? "if they don't pay, we won't help you!" (republican backline: yes we will, of course we will).


Although, in a way, the brexit comparison is a good one: Brexit was brought to you by lies, and everyone part of it bailed once it was voted through. And guess what? still no Brexit. Still no idea of what Brexit looks like.

I can't speak for all his supporters, but I myself am not blind to Trump's flaws. He is an egotistical, opportunistic salesman who will say anything and quite often doesn't think before opening his mouth. I have no doubt he has been engaged in ethically questionable business practices. But even with all this, he is still the best choice available this year.

Hillary, or most anyone the Democrats would have run is completely unacceptable to me, and many other Republicans under any circumstances. Their liberal/socialist agenda is abhorrent to me.

But the fact is that for decades now, the Republican party has betrayed my interests and the interests of many other lower middle class working people in this country. The entire party leadership has been bought, lock stock and barrel by the big money interests and the multinational corporations, and their actions demonstrate that.

These lower/middle class working people have not been ignorant of what has been happening, on the contrary, many of them, like myself knew full well what was going on, but have had no voice or choice in the matter. There has been no one on the national stage since 1992 who even talked about the issues these voters are concerned with, mostly the economy and jobs and the lack of them in particular.

So, we have a sizable group of people who perceive themselves as being betrayed by the people that are supposed to be representing their interests, and they're pissed about it.

Sounds somewhat like what drove brexit support to me. A group of disaffected voters who want things changed, at any cost.