The Political Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Get marked off the voter registration rolls?

Indeed.

But "the people" have done jack nothing since Brexit. Where are the hordes of pissed off people? Why are they not storming the UK parliament in disgust?

Plenty of protesting has happened to prevent the continuation, but the date has been set. March 2017, the EU says goodbye to the UK.

Although, in a way, the brexit comparison is a good one: Brexit was brought to you by lies, and everyone part of it bailed once it was voted through. And guess what? still no Brexit. Still no idea of what Brexit looks like.

March 2017 - and apparently the UK wants to keep some EU-laws. *snort*

[thekillman]

But "the people" have done jack nothing since Brexit. Where are the hordes of pissed off people? Why are they not storming the UK parliament in disgust?

Oh that's right they realized they all got conned.

There have been protests -big ones too-. I think most of them are currently busy weighing their options and figuring out what to do next. Nothing is certain right now, it's not even certain if Brexit will truly happen. Because Brexit requires a deal both sides can agree on and well, currently they couldn't be further apart.

A group of disaffected voters who want things changed, at any cost.

no cost too high huh. That's going to work so well.

[Annoyed]

There have been protests -big ones too-. I think most of them are currently busy weighing their options and figuring out what to do next. Nothing is certain right now, it's not even certain if Brexit will truly happen. Because Brexit requires a deal both sides can agree on and well, currently they couldn't be further apart.


no cost too high huh. That's going to work so well.

Well, you can thank BOTH parties for getting these people so riled up that they will take any deal, even a bad one instead continuing.

I've gone over the Republican party, but the Dems are just as bad. One after another, the Dems put in pie-in-the-sky pipe dreams, saying that they are trying to help the lower classes, but in reality, the majority of the folks they really help are the parasites; they don't work, don't want to work or support themselves and continually make stupid decisions such as having children when they have no business doing so, refusing to take advantage of what the are offered, such as free basic education as well as other things which doom them to their current status endlessly. But this is fine for Democrats; if a person is dependent upon them for their continued govt. benefits and such, that person will vote for Democrats.

But who pays for this? Of course, lip service is always paid to "Taxing the rich", and making sure "everyone pays their fair share", but at the end of the day, the well off can often find ways to avoid taxation (the tax writers always include loopholes for their own class, the well-off) the poor pay little or no taxes. So in the end it's the lower middle class working stiff who pays for all this.

And he is sick and damned tired of it.

Still sounds like Brexit to me.

[Falcon Horus]

Trump is having a bad week... not that any of his other weeks have been any better, but this one's a really bad one.

Though curious about the debate between the VP's next. And then another smack down next sunday...

[aretood2]

Having a passport and drivers license are also required. Are either of them free??

I wouldn't compare leaving the country and driving to voting. But that's just me.

Well, since to take the SAT (which is something needed to get into colleges) you need photo ID for, then they should already have one.
Additionally, since we DO have plenty of students at colleges who are NOT US CITIZENS, and thus not allowed to vote here, then allowing a student ID on it's own, is not sufficient to ensure they are "Eligible to vote"..

Was that changed recently? I only needed to show my student ID.

Do they have a bank account? Library card? Get prescriptions issued? Then they have ID.
If not, then they should be able to get an ID from a DMV that is NOT a drivers license..

Most of those things don't require a ID from a DMV. A school ID is enough for the Library, for example. Well, at least here in PA.

I can't speak for all his supporters, but I myself am not blind to Trump's flaws. He is an egotistical, opportunistic salesman who will say anything and quite often doesn't think before opening his mouth. I have no doubt he has been engaged in ethically questionable business practices. But even with all this, he is still the best choice available this year.

Better than Johnson? Heck, I'll even take Nixon. At least we know the things he would do. I mean, Trump is only slightly better than Buchanan...the guy that lost the Union...literally.

Hillary, or most anyone the Democrats would have run is completely unacceptable to me, and many other Republicans under any circumstances. Their liberal/socialist agenda is abhorrent to me.

That, I can understand. *Gary Johnson 2016*

But the fact is that for decades now, the Republican party has betrayed my interests and the interests of many other lower middle class working people in this country. The entire party leadership has been bought, lock stock and barrel by the big money interests and the multinational corporations, and their actions demonstrate that.

The fact is not even Reagan properly represented your interests.

These lower/middle class working people have not been ignorant of what has been happening, on the contrary, many of them, like myself knew full well what was going on, but have had no voice or choice in the matter. There has been no one on the national stage since 1992 who even talked about the issues these voters are concerned with, mostly the economy and jobs and the lack of them in particular.

Who did that in 1992? Oh yeah...Bill Clinton...Yay for operating the budget on a surplus and making workfare reforms. (Though he's not my favorite by a long shot, but I mean...talk about being blinded by partisan politics).

So, we have a sizable group of people who perceive themselves as being betrayed by the people that are supposed to be representing their interests, and they're pissed about it.

Sounds somewhat like what drove brexit support to me. A group of disaffected voters who want things changed, at any cost.

You're not listening to brexit regret then...

I've gone over the Republican party, but the Dems are just as bad. One after another, the Dems put in pie-in-the-sky pipe dreams, saying that they are trying to help the lower classes, but in reality, the majority of the folks they really help are the parasites; they don't work, don't want to work or support themselves and continually make stupid decisions such as having children when they have no business doing so, refusing to take advantage of what the are offered, such as free basic education as well as other things which doom them to their current status endlessly. But this is fine for Democrats; if a person is dependent upon them for their continued govt. benefits and such, that person will vote for Democrats.

A large portion of these moochers are white people. But I have to agree with one thing. Democrats have largely paid lip service until they get pressed up against the wall to act. But instead of capitalizing on that, republicans just continue to antagonize minorities instead of attracting them. Reagan is the only guy I can think of who understood this...other than the Bush's. I don't care what people say, the Bush's are good people. I may not agree with some of their politics (like the patriot act) but they meant well and I never got the vibe of being unwelcomed from Bush Jr. I would have voted for Jeb Bush if it was his name on the ballot.

But who pays for this? Of course, lip service is always paid to "Taxing the rich", and making sure "everyone pays their fair share", but at the end of the day, the well off can often find ways to avoid taxation (the tax writers always include loopholes for their own class, the well-off) the poor pay little or no taxes. So in the end it's the lower middle class working stiff who pays for all this.

Do you honestly think Trump is going to tax the rich? I mean...he bragged about how he didn't pay taxes. Do you honestly think he'll make it so that he'll have to pay taxes when his 4-8 years are up? Speaking of Trump...this is the guy who outsources everything and instead of hiring legal residents/citizens he does everything in his power to get work visas. Hypocrite much?

Still sounds like Brexit to me.

I'll say it again, Brexit regret. If you are aiming for that, vote Trump and republicans will go back to George W. Bush with a big "We're sorry, you weren't that bad" balloon. All of America will.

[garhkal]

So, you are saying that Polling station personel are incapable of reading a photo ID?.

No i am saying that no photo ID i know of has a line item on it anywhere, specifying if "This id is a legal voter/legal US resident" or the like.
And with the # of states now giving driver's licenses to Illegal immigrants one can't take a DL as mere proof someone's a US citizen, thus a legal voter.

I wouldn't compare leaving the country and driving to voting. But that's just me.

Read what i said to GF.

Most of those things don't require a ID from a DMV. A school ID is enough for the Library, for example. Well, at least here in PA.

Maybe its a state by state thing then. I know in MS when i got mine down in Gulfport, i had to show a DL..

[Annoyed]

Better than Johnson? Heck, I'll even take Nixon. At least we know the things he would do. I mean, Trump is only slightly better than Buchanan...the guy that lost the Union...literally.


That, I can understand. *Gary Johnson 2016*

Johnson isn't even in the running. 0 chance of winning.

Who did that in 1992? Oh yeah...Bill Clinton...Yay for operating the budget on a surplus and making workfare reforms. (Though he's not my favorite by a long shot, but I mean...talk about being blinded by partisan politics).

I was referring to Ross Perot. And he was right on the money with his "giant sucking sound" prediction.

A large portion of these moochers are white people. But I have to agree with one thing. Democrats have largely paid lip service until they get pressed up against the wall to act. But instead of capitalizing on that, republicans just continue to antagonize minorities instead of attracting them. Reagan is the only guy I can think of who understood this...other than the Bush's. I don't care what people say, the Bush's are good people. I may not agree with some of their politics (like the patriot act) but they meant well and I never got the vibe of being unwelcomed from Bush Jr. I would have voted for Jeb Bush if it was his name on the ballot.

I don't care what color a parasite is. I just care that it's a parasite. Why did you bring race into it?

Do you honestly think Trump is going to tax the rich? I mean...he bragged about how he didn't pay taxes. Do you honestly think he'll make it so that he'll have to pay taxes when his 4-8 years are up? Speaking of Trump...this is the guy who outsources everything and instead of hiring legal residents/citizens he does everything in his power to get work visas. Hypocrite much?

Nope. Still better than Hillary.

I'll say it again, Brexit regret. If you are aiming for that, vote Trump and republicans will go back to George W. Bush with a big "We're sorry, you weren't that bad" balloon. All of America will.

I rather doubt we will want Bush again. But if does turn out to be regret, At least there will have been a wake up call to the Republican leadership.

[Annoyed]

No i am saying that no photo ID i know of has a line item on it anywhere, specifying if "This id is a legal voter/legal US resident" or the like.
And with the # of states now giving driver's licenses to Illegal immigrants one can't take a DL as mere proof someone's a US citizen, thus a legal voter.

That is something that ought to be squashed, immediately. Withhold fed. highway funds from any state that does that.
After we get the current idiot out of the White House, that is.

[SGalisa]

One can only wonder what kind of backlash will fall upon the families doing the suing, or upon the rest of us (in the USA) merely observing this entire situation..

Saudi Arabia may not be so willing to depart with their moolah that easily. Saudi Arabia may be the (financially) intimidating *Goliath* giant-entity of modern times..

What kind do you think it might have?

You answered that question yourself with the following NY Times article link--

The Saudi Arabia issue was touched upon a couple posts ago, and I would like to add an addendum. Saw an article in The New York Times which states that Saudi Arabia might take another look at the alliance it has with the US and possibly withdraw, taking all their investments with them if the US allows 9/11 victims' families to come after SA for a never proven connection to the 9/11 terrorists.

Angered by 9/11 Victims Law, Saudis Rethink U.S. Alliance

And on twitter last night, someone commented on that situation how the US would feel if it were held responsible for the many civilians killed in drone strikes. Don't their families have a right to a compensation just the same?

basic partial NY Times quote

"Angered by 9/11 Victims Law, Saudis Rethink U.S. Alliance"
By BEN HUBBARD, SEPT. 29, 2016
(© 2016 The New York Times Company)

that
'Saudi Arabia has lots of money invested in the United States, and Mr. Jubeir, the Saudi foreign minister, warned that such investments could be withdrawn if Saudi Arabia feared that its assets were in jeopardy of seizure as part of American legal proceedings. It remains unclear if Saudi Arabia will start withdrawing those assets.
. . .
"This situation, if exploited, would do a great deal of harm to U.S. interests..." Mr. Aldossary said.'
. . .

One can only wonder what type(s) of "HARM" that would be implying.
Such as, first-- send over as many undesirable refugees (problematic souls from the Middle East, and other regions)
Then Next-- at a time when Saudi Arabia deems fit -- have whatever nations/countries with ability to do so, to obliterate the US off this earth.
It isn't beyond such a wealthy country to buy out whomever they choose, to do their bidding of nasty stuff. This is what the South American country cartels have done with their effort to keep pushing drug money into active operations.

So, weaken the US abilities (financially maybe with some physical harm) is one thing (this already happened with the destruction of the WTC), but to completely wipe most or all of the US off the map-- that's going to an extreme that has been nagging many folks weary of this for much longer than a decade.

Or jack up our gas prices so high, that it cuts especially into the middle class guy who's been trying to overcome various commodities increases of the past, only to see more money fly out just to get decent transportation in this (USA) country.

That sort. It wouldn't surprise the folks who have been highly concerned about this being a possibility in the past to happen sometime in the future.

With the job situations being reduced to the point where an employee has to travel sometimes up to an hour one way to get to work, that hurts the financial pocketbook. Setting aside 3 hours or more just for travel wears one's health down. I've done it, and it does affect productivity levels -- even when taking caffeine, which also isn't healthy on a continuous basis to live that way. People do already car-pool, but not everyone can. People on night-time shift work often have difficulties getting buses or trains going to their closest train destinations at any time of the night. Winter transit travel is worse, due to hazardous weather conditions.. Almost everything for a favorable commute closes down, except the actual office/facility building where you work.. then you get written up for failure to show up, and that is regardless of how far you had to actually travel (or how many detours that had to be taken because of traffic problems)..!


Coincidentally, *strange* thing happened day or two after the JASTA law came out (I don't remember the actual dates any more)--but NJ transit train for the NJ/NY metro area crashed and critically damaged the station over in Hoboken(NJ).. this has messed up metro traffic and transit for possibly several weeks, as a major hub rail station needs excess amount of repairs -- so other stations must be alternatively used instead; and a train engine is permanently out of use (it got demolished). Meantime, "terrorism" was being ruled out as a factor, for the duration.

Problem is, the authorities are having trouble getting the data off the box with the important data info on it on what may have caused the accident. Could have been brake failure or the computer data didn't get to the equipment controlling the train properly. However, it was working fine for every stop prior, so why all of a sudden would it fail, short of sudden (hairline?) brake failure, except perhaps a hacker taking control to put the train out of the engineer's control..?

If a hacker gaining unauthorized access into the train's computer system (or whatever controls it) wasn't the problem, then perhaps the engineer had a seizure or heart attack and momentarily blacked out. The general public won't know exactly what happened, probably for a few weeks, as all of the data and reviews are sorted out--unto the minutest of detail (put under a microscope for examination).

Unless you are a citizen of Saudi Arabia, you don't have to worry that it will cut into your raise.

Any time we --in the so-called "middle class"-- get a tiny raise in our salary, it always ends up going to an increase in taxes during the next year, or the prices go higher on certain grocery items that we need. Doesn't matter if the price increases were caused by our own country's manufacturing/etc. processing or some other country causing the financial headaches. Trying to get ahead financially and staying ahead has always been a never ending battle, especially for the lower runged/totem pole folks, who never seem to get ahead on things, because one event often leads to another --- where one has to proverbially borrow from Peter's saving account and move over to help pay into Paul's payment account.

Which is why you folks can discuss the nitty-gritty details within the law-bills and possible solutions / resolutions to the various issues or problems that are encountered.

I just point to the articles and events that need attention from higher PTB (agencies, gov't, etc.), whoever can fix such things without causing more harm to those already suffering, plus adding any *innocent* bystanders into the mixture, during the interim..).

As far as I know, those folks don't surf the web... unless you mean the NSA or Russia.

No. I meant exactly what I said. The gov't agencies, etc., get their lesser messenger minions to do the service work into researching various data info on this and that (which is how most of our current USA regulations end up becoming regulations and then LAW in the first place!), and then the agencies compile the data, sort thru it, and prioritize on what items get put into working projects. If the collection of data means using telephone or other surveys or even reading the media newspapers (who seem to be embedded into one side or another political party), then that is another method on how data is collected on what needs work where. When enough complaints get heard up to the higher PTB levels, maybe then TPTB might do something to FIX certain issues, unless there is a crisis situation going on, and then the data is done more directly from TPTB themselves.

...and then there is the politics of discussing "politics" ...I'm Not going to explain that one.

Option B
The politics of discussing politics?
I'd like that explained, if you please cause I'm drawing a blank.

You (FH) already explained it yourself with your rant(s) about me.
Now that I've had some time to recuperate from this week's adventures tiring me out--

To paraphrase my own **original** comment, I *think* it means tell me stuff that I/we (of this certain group of intellectuals) want to know, NOT what else is out there that might be helpful to also know or be aware of. That is what it obviously means to me. If I add any more to this, it will only make comprehending it more complicated and simply confuse you/everyone else here and me both.

That's pretty much what politics does anyway-- complicate and confuse -- ever see the IRS tax return "LONG version" form? Yes, I know, the tax form is a completely different item in the long list of political subjects possibly being discussed. Well, with all of the *exceptions* to this paragraph or whatever, go see item #whatever (instead), well, that's how complicated and confusing some discussions of certain politics is to me, IMO.

Some policies of politics are --- a huge PITA. Subjects often go in circles and don't really say much, even tho there are tons of words devoted to each item under political scrutiny. Even the regulations that detail how to do what with which items, is an endless spree of words, often repeating the same details in several different locations within the regs. Some regs actually have meaning and make sense. The rest is a tedious, boring read, but *necessary* to know and understand in order to be compliant with our nation's laws.

[Gatefan1976]

Ok, so the Republican party is doing this, or at least tacitly approving it. I won't deny it, there are more than enough known instances of shenanigans and most of the the time, it is Republican politicians engaging in them. And I've stated that they are wrong. Such as the situation where DMV offices were closed in high minority population areas. That's wrong.

Progress

I'm sure the Democrats do something, perhaps many things that you think are wrong. Would you vote Republican because of those things? Throw out what you mostly like because of a few items you don't?

I have no "party preference", I vote on policy. I have voted Labour, Liberal, Greens and independent based on that. Remember, we don't pick a president, we pick a party and they choose their leader, so policy is always the best indicator once you throw out the obvious voter bait. If any have superior policy, they get my vote, no matter the party. If I were to put myself in American shoes, and pick a -candidate-, Trump looses based on that criteria. His plans, such as they are, are simply pathetic, popularist trash which he continually changes, and modifies based on some whim of "many people". His Economic plans would be a disaster for middle America, and his Immigration "plans" will have little to no effect on the problem and waste billions of dollars for no reason. Militarily, he is clueless, (and dangerous), and is a proud Vietnam draft dodger. Policy-wise, he is a failure on every front. As for Personality, well, I think you know what I think of that by now

So, would I vote Republican if the policies were superior to Democratic ones?
Yes, Yes I would.

I never said stop absentee balloting. There are many legitimate reasons for it. The college student can register in person in his town of residence, showing his driver's lic. or non-driver ID for identification, then go off to collegetown and mail his ballot in to his home jurisdiction. This doesn't disenfranchise anybody.

Note you are quoting my response to Garhkal, who seems to not think that postal votes are a good thing, you and I agree that postal votes are fine.

[Ian-S]

Hardly anybody I know is suffering from Brexit regret, don't believe everything written by the people Brexit will affect the most, after all shouldn't we be in WW3 and a third world country by now?

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

The housing market should have completely collapsed. War in the EU, eternal darkness, Christmas is cancelled. No one will ever trade with us again. Etc...

It's been so quiet since the vote because the government are taking their time to put the plan together. To make sure it's done properly. Cameron rushed into the vote. Told ridiculous lies after lies.. and look how that turned out..

[aretood2]

I was referring to Ross Perot. And he was right on the money with his "giant sucking sound" prediction.

Please look up my previous posts in response to that utter socialist/protectionist fantasy.

I don't care what color a parasite is. I just care that it's a parasite. Why did you bring race into it?

We were talking about lip service that democrats provide. Most of it is aimed towards minorities. Maybe it's because most conservatives seem to blame black folks for welfare ills more so than anyone else, and guess what you are? A populist conservative. IN reality, welfare abuse doesn't factor into voting patterns. Otherwise republicans wouldn't have so many voters (white people because right now Trump has less than 1% of the black vote) if welfare was a guaranteed vote for democrats. Don't play dumb.

Nope. Still better than Hillary.

But still not a "good" choice. I just don't understand how you can think that Hillary is worse when she's on par with every other politician. Trump however...he has real bad juju.

I rather doubt we will want Bush again. But if does turn out to be regret, At least there will have been a wake up call to the Republican leadership.

It confounds me how conservatives have bought into liberal bias so hard. Sure, he wasn't the best or brightest of presidents. But he wasn't the disaster MSNBC would have you believe either. I'd take him over Trump easily.

[aretood2]

The housing market should have completely collapsed. War in the EU, eternal darkness, Christmas is cancelled. No one will ever trade with us again. Etc...

It's been so quiet since the vote because the government are taking their time to put the plan together. To make sure it's done properly. Cameron rushed into the vote. Told ridiculous lies after lies.. and look how that turned out..

We will only export to you and refuse to import because imports take American jobs away, unless you have something that we totally can not make ourselves. Because that's how economics work.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

Trump is so concerned Hillary won't be fit enough for the job he seems to have forgotten that he would be the oldest President ever. And the third fattest.