The Political Discussion Thread

[mad_gater]

What the heck is the country made up of if not our population? Cheese Wiz?

EDIT:
Regarding Sanders, I know you won't accept this, but I firmly believe that the DNC made a backroom deal with Hillary in 2008 by which she stepped aside, and was promised the nod in 2016. And since she knows where the bodies are buried, along with the ones she buried herself, they can't go back on their word this year.

I rather liked Sanders, for a Democrat, but he picked the wrong year to run. This was over in 2008.

insofar as a self-avowed socialist can be liked

[Annoyed]

If your point is that not all of the eligible voters voted, there has never been 100% participation.

[SGalisa]

How many people voted in the primaries?

Everybody who wanted to. I think it was record high numbers on the Republican side, not sure about the Democrats.

If your point is that not all of the eligible voters voted, there has never been 100% participation.

This is true, as it is usually almost always true. In my regional area if we have 3000 eligible voters for one town, and only 300 total show up from the different districts (of that one town), that is a high voting count for a primary. When I'm number 60 by 7pm and the polls close at 8pm, that's a sad count for that day.

The main elections is usually when the rest of those voters show up. And still not all eligible voters show up at the polls. Some votes are mail-in's; while the rest just don't vote at all for whatever the reason.

[SGalisa]

Regarding the "wall(s)" discussion. Some background quotes first.

Live in the Middle East and (generic) you MUST obey the law(s) of the Land (gov't). Live in the USA, and it's almost an issue of live however way you want, until you get caught in a domestic dispute or other issue resulting in some sort of penalty fine or face jail, and that person might still be able to "get of jail FREE card" depending on the persons judging their case. Not so much in the Middle East. Penalties are often harsh and swift, especially if (generic) you are a foreign visitor.

. . .
Back to the political nightmare topic--
That (fence/wall) is something that Trump NEEDs to be aware of, regardless of the folly of believing in Huuuuuuuuge fences or walls. There would need to be a 2ndary and maybe a 3rd barrier of perhaps some sort of electrical forcefield to work almost totally efficiently if that were the problem. Other countries do it, so why are parts of the rest of the world being exempt, and others required to absorb the masses..?

Would you prefer it your way, or theirs?
. . .
What? What countries?

Try the Middle Eastern Islamic controlled countries, China, and maybe Russia for good starters.

Germany once built its Berlin Wall, to split the country in two - West and East.
Israel builds walls to keep Israeleans in and Palestinians out.
China once built the Great Wall to protect the Empire from hostile invasions.
The Roman Empire built a few walls to keep the Barbarians out, even though they lived beyond the walls and even traded with these Picts.

. . .
Russia never build any walls.
China did build that Great Wall of theirs, to keep the empire safe from hostile invasions -- different time, different situation.

Please, point me to the Middle-Eastern country that build a wall?

To split BERLIN into West and East. More precisely, to keep the people of eastern Berlin from leaving their part of the city a ghost town as they run across to the west.
. . .
Also, the electronic fence around the entire USSR, the original Iron Curtain.
. . .
Moroccan Wall

Iran-Pakistan barrier

Kuwait-Iraq barrier

WALLs..?!
Not sure how several pages worth of discussion ended up mostly about walls.
And I get blamed for it..
Sorry, my fault.

It took me some time to figure out what happened to cause that almost endless rant. My original paragraph as noted in the quote did mention about walls, but for *Trump's sake* -- there isn't going to be a wall BIG or high enough or DEEP enough to keep *undesirable* types of peoples out -- regardless of "where" they came from. THAT in a nutshell *was* my point. Trump's support club are living in dreamy-land, if they expect any such wall to stop any incoming problems from other parts of the world via thru Mexico..!

I even thought about what if the wall was dug down into the earth's mantle where it finally meets up with the lava flows? If that even happened, someone with enough money might dig a tunnel closer to the land surface with one of those huge mole-tunnel diggers. With technology available nowadays, that whole "wall" idea *seems* folly from my POV.

Back to my original quote----I was referring in my last sentence (please see the purple highlighted sentence in the very top quote here) to countries using POWER for *control* in keeping the *undesirable* types of peoples out.. not about walls. However, since I failed to mention that in specific detail, almost everyone here since then ran with the whole issue being about *walls* instead of enforcement of power control done in other ways.

"Say what you mean (intended to describe), and mean (define) what you say."
Does it really have to be *THAT* intensely detailed..?


So, Womble was correct with the iron curtain being wrapped around the U.S.S.R. as a method of power to control the people already within the boundary lines, etc. Saudia Arabia uses its Islamic theocracy and China uses its enforcement of Socialism (and Red China enforces its Communistic rule) to control the populations both in and out of their countries.

Sorry for the delay. Was working on other home things again. Plus, it takes me forever to hunt down who said what when... and then I need to sleep on these things sometimes... sometimes I need to stay away from this forum for several days, and then when I come back, there's a migraine headache waiting for me from several additional pages worth of data info, also giving me blurred vision while trying to sort thru it all..

[SoulReaver]

I've been suspecting that our society is headed for the wall for a long time now.

[...]

What if this is how it happens? Maybe Trump does do something?

yes he'll build more walls for you to run into

I rather liked Sanders, for a Democrat, but he picked the wrong year to run. This was over in 2008.

I know he officially endorses Hillary (disappointing but maybe he's got no choice) but is there any sliver of a chance he could still be the next president?

[aretood2]

If your point is that not all of the eligible voters voted, there has never been 100% participation.

I think that's his point.

[aretood2]

Which is why i have agreed every time the politicians DO push to get English made our national language.. Without one in place, which language is supposed to take priority has less push..

Official languages are more formality than anything else. The only reason you want one because you insanely believe that English isn't the language that will always be spoken in this country. You have to be a lunatic not to see that. The mere fact that I am typing in English should serve as more than enough evidence.

Not totally AreTood. IIRC there was an article posted back in march (or was it april) on translators and CA, and how much they are having to spend on them for immigrants (legal and illegal)..

Didn't I just mention that the same was true way back in the 1900's? Heck it was true in the 1800's. Nothing is different other than the fact that you are alive today to be afraid of the strange looking and strange sounding brown people. I mean just look at the growing percentage of Hispanics that don't know Spanish. It's above 25% right now. Selena Gomez is one of those 25%. Just go back and reread my post will ya?

[Annoyed]

Didn't I just mention that the same was true way back in the 1900's? Heck it was true in the 1800's. Nothing is different other than the fact that you are alive today to be afraid of the strange looking and strange sounding brown people. I mean just look at the growing percentage of Hispanics that don't know English. It's above 25% right now. Selena Gomez is one of those 25%. Just go back and reread my post will ya?

Ummm... if this Selena Gomez and the others you refer to are living in the U.S., isn't that kinda the point? Why should people who live here have to learn the language of immigrants?

[Gatefan1976]

insofar as a self-avowed socialist can be liked

Here we go, again..........

MG. If memory serves, you have some kind of disability, right?
If you, or your parents ever received any kind of financial aid from the government, you were taking advantage of socialism. There is a reason why it's called -social- services.

[Gatefan1976]

I think that's his point.

Yes, yes it is.
Roughly half the population of the US votes, which means about 100 million eligible voters could not be arsed to have a say in the US government at the federal level, and it is even lower for primaries, and utterly atrocious at the state level. You end up getting the government those most invested in maintaining the Status Quo want, not the representative democracy America likes to claim it is.

The vote is the free exercise of choice, and to give it up is baffling to me. I find people who don't vote more insulting to their nation than any not standing for the anthem, or burning the flag, at least those are conscious -choices-.

[Gatefan1976]

Regarding the "wall(s)" discussion. Some background quotes first.



WALLs..?!
Not sure how several pages worth of discussion ended up mostly about walls.
And I get blamed for it..
Sorry, my fault.

It took me some time to figure out what happened to cause that almost endless rant. My original paragraph as noted in the quote did mention about walls, but for *Trump's sake* -- there isn't going to be a wall BIG or high enough or DEEP enough to keep *undesirable* types of peoples out -- regardless of "where" they came from. THAT in a nutshell *was* my point. Trump's support club are living in dreamy-land, if they expect any such wall to stop any incoming problems from other parts of the world via thru Mexico..!

I even thought about what if the wall was dug down into the earth's mantle where it finally meets up with the lava flows? If that even happened, someone with enough money might dig a tunnel closer to the land surface with one of those huge mole-tunnel diggers. With technology available nowadays, that whole "wall" idea *seems* folly from my POV.

Back to my original quote----I was referring in my last sentence (please see the purple highlighted sentence in the very top quote here) to countries using POWER for *control* in keeping the *undesirable* types of peoples out.. not about walls. However, since I failed to mention that in specific detail, almost everyone here since then ran with the whole issue being about *walls* instead of enforcement of power control done in other ways.

"Say what you mean (intended to describe), and mean (define) what you say."
Does it really have to be *THAT* intensely detailed..?


So, Womble was correct with the iron curtain being wrapped around the U.S.S.R. as a method of power to control the people already within the boundary lines, etc. Saudia Arabia uses its Islamic theocracy and China uses its enforcement of Socialism (and Red China enforces its Communistic rule) to control the populations both in and out of their countries.

Sorry for the delay. Was working on other home things again. Plus, it takes me forever to hunt down who said what when... and then I need to sleep on these things sometimes... sometimes I need to stay away from this forum for several days, and then when I come back, there's a migraine headache waiting for me from several additional pages worth of data info, also giving me blurred vision while trying to sort thru it all..

I stand by what I said, clarification or not.
Do you want to be like them?
Here is what you said:

Other countries do it, so why are parts of the rest of the world being exempt, and others required to absorb the masses..?

America can build a wall if you want, you can do it with bricks, EM fields, barbed wire, machine gun nests, microwave zappers or sonic screwdrivers for all I care.
All it does it put you into the category of China, Russia, and Germany of the 1940's. If that is who you want to be, do it. If not, well, people might want to rethink the idea.

[Gatefan1976]

What the heck is the country made up of if not our population? Cheese Wiz?

EDIT:
Regarding Sanders, I know you won't accept this, but I firmly believe that the DNC made a backroom deal with Hillary in 2008 by which she stepped aside, and was promised the nod in 2016. And since she knows where the bodies are buried, along with the ones she buried herself, they can't go back on their word this year.

I rather liked Sanders, for a Democrat, but he picked the wrong year to run. This was over in 2008.

It's not a question of me not accepting it, it's a question of facts Annoyed. Hillary won without the Super delegates, she won on votes alone, same as Trump. In 2008, Obama won on votes, not the Super delegates as well. I don't know what kind of deal she could have made from a losing position "I'll step aside, because I am loosing" is not exactly a strong bargaining place to be in. This isn't poker or Blackjack where the art of the bluff comes into it, if it were, I could quite easily see your theory having some merit, but it is not, so it does not. At best, you can argue that the DNC had a favourite in 2016 and did their best to have Hillary win, and I would totally agree with you there because the known facts support that view.

As for Bernie, the more Ivanka has to do with the campaign, the more you will see -his- idea's come out of her mouth.

[garhkal]

Neither can Trump, but you don't seem to care about him doing it.

At least none of his lies have lead to people dying (that we know of).

Oh no, I just want him to win so he can ruin the US to the ground...
That way, I can do that "I told you so"-dance I've been practicing.

And if hillary wins and runs us into the ground and WE say "told ya so", will you say "guess i was wrong"

I mean just look at the growing percentage of Hispanics that don't know English. It's above 25% right now. Selena Gomez is one of those 25%. Just go back and reread my post will ya?

Isn't that proof then of what we have been saying, that 'they don't assimilate'??

[Gatefan1976]

At least none of his lies have lead to people dying (that we know of).

His business practices have destroyed more lives than Hillary's ever have, unless you want to blame the 2nd Iraq war on her, rather than Bush.
4 Chapter 11's of his own, let alone the bullying and litigation he has employed to get what he wants, or step away from the fallout of his actions. Trump is a good speaker, he has a magnetic personality, but every really smart thing he has ever done, the nuts and bolts of it come from other people. This works fine in business, but it will not work as POTUS, unless you want to vote the Trump family into the job, rather than the man.
Do you really want a man, no matter how well he can speak, with the attention span of a gnat as your leader?

And if hillary wins and runs us into the ground and WE say "told ya so", will you say "guess i was wrong"

She won't. Unlike Trump, for all her failings she is a politician and understands that if the country collapses, so does she. Put the politics and the scandals on both sides aside for a moment and ask yourself one simple question. Based on near 70 years each, what has each represented with their lives?
Hillary, no matter how ham fisted or dumb has continually fought for human rights, be they women, or children. That is the main substance of her life.
What has Trump devoted his life to? The acquisition of personal wealth and power with no regard to who he damages along the way.
Both have used and abused the system, yet one is held to a high standard, the other is not.
Lastly, do you think Hillary looses sleep over the people her actions have affected such as Bengazi?
Do you think Trump looses sleep over the people he has destroyed?

Isn't that proof then of what we have been saying, that 'they don't assimilate'??

Why is adapting, the only reason we exist as we do now, bad? Countries don't come with an official language, the people do.

[thekillman]

Why is adapting, the only reason we exist as we do now, bad? Countries don't come with an official language, the people do.

People apparently aren't allowed to bring native food, ideas, religion etc with them.

So Americans, please stop talking your English, eating your cuisine and expressing your culture and belief. It's only fair you assimilate.

Regarding Sanders, I know you won't accept this, but I firmly believe that the DNC made a backroom deal with Hillary in 2008 by which she stepped aside, and was promised the nod in 2016. And since she knows where the bodies are buried, along with the ones she buried herself, they can't go back on their word this year.

I rather liked Sanders, for a Democrat, but he picked the wrong year to run. This was over in 2008.

Sanders wasn't as popular as you think he was. He's probably become more popular since he wasn't elected, but Hillary won fair and square. He was simply too much of a socialist for american tastes.