The Political Discussion Thread

[jelgate]

*starts shooting at wall*

I'm using these bullet holes to make a portrait of PH. Permits? I don't need permits

[Womble]

Well now, we can't have you produce portraits of PH without a permit!

Bush 41 says he will vote for Clinton

[Gatefan1976]

Well now, we can't have you produce portraits of PH without a permit!

Bush 41 says he will vote for Clinton

Heh, I saw that, hilarious

[jelgate]

A lot of Republicans are doing that. Shows how crazy Trump is

[Gatefan1976]

A lot of Republicans are doing that. Shows how crazy Trump is

Eh, not really.
some of the "establishment" are doing it, sure, but given that much of his base is against the establishment, I don't think it will make a jot of difference.

[jelgate]

Of course not. The elected officials are so small they don't matter

[Gatefan1976]

Of course not. The elected officials are so small they don't matter

They matter in the house and senate yes.
On voting day..................
Not so much, no.

[SGalisa]

Sorry for the length. It's really difficult to shorten when nearly every phrase is being poked at for further details. (just an FYI there..

hunh? (SGalisa) reads how original subject got morphed into something else...

And you morph it back into something else again...

No. I morphed the altered focal point (which changed from *my* original object of discussion) back into my original train of thought. =)

hunh? (SGalisa) reads how original subject got morphed into something else...

Probably because you tend to not speak in exact terms, it's all "fluffy".

That's because *I'm* all fluffy (in the head--da brain was never attached).
Just ask my hubby. . . .
(= sorry, couldn't resist saying that.. "memory is the first to go" so the saying goes)

I agree with there being too much political correctness being pushed on folks who aren't allowed to say anything, lest the person being spoken to gets the least amount offended --

Like what?

jeeze, try that in the work office about some job project being incorrectly done, and suffer the scolding that occurs in the process.. If school/college aged people are now that fragile, how are they *ever* going to cope in the long-term, REAL working world..?

Will get to an example in a moment. First, background--
Political correctness is as much of a personality issue, as it is considered an offensive comment. I get picked on all the time -- but observed a very interesting encounter. In my first job, there were two coworkers taunting at each other's personality "flaws" where the one finally *felt* really insulted and started complaining about it. The other person finally asked in a very sarcastic manner to the insulted, carry-feelings-on-a-sleeve other coworker "Hey, you can dish it out, but you can't take it back? What a wimp..!"
That happened years before offending political correctness (harassment) office rules went into effect.

I don't know about where you work, but at my workplace it is common courtesy to be respectful of one's colleagues, even when a project is not going according to plan and schedules are turning into chaos. We have a diverse workforce, and each of one of them is treated with the respect they deserve.
You want to ignore that, fine -- just make sure you are ready to deal with the consequences. A teamplayer you will not be considered which will end up on your evaluation -- bad eval, means a kick out the door.

As for job performance, if someone isn't carrying their own weight, it *does* show up on their employee evaluation(s). Management won't always say anything at the time.. they merely observe for a while. Then, if they like you, they might pull you aside and politely give some sort of pep talk to get you to either confess what's bugging you, or get you inspired to do more. Otherwise, if they don't care one way or another about you, they'll wait until that fateful day of reckoning and hand you a bad job review (handed to you in writing). You read it and sign it or complain.

The few people who did complain (inquired in a polite manner why they received such a horrible review, when their work demands were set at such nearly impossible limits, that it was difficult to keep up or whatever they gave as a reasonable reason)-- often found themselves out the door within a very short time after. This happened on a regular basis in that (medical) facility to which the entire county often joked about the reputation this facility earned -- don't work there.. and don't send your relatives there for medical help, either..!!

Unfortunately, if you complain and the bosses over your supervisor are the one's instigating the bad review matter (because they don't want to pay you more), any suggestions for help get denied, and so you get 2 more tries at being on your best behavior and performance under poor working circumstances. Situation was where No union existed, and never would, because it was a private (medical) facility where this situation happened. Just beware of places that give a perfect work review score one year, and a suddenly poor one the next. You'll be out the door before you realize you've been "set-up". Grant it, that may not be political correctness related, but it's not a fair work system -- because it's (was) controlled by corrupted owners.

I agree with there being too much political correctness being pushed on folks who aren't allowed to say anything, lest the person being spoken to gets the least amount offended --

Like what?
Give me -specific- examples of what you are not allowed to say that does not deserve to be derided in context.
If your are incapable of doing it............

jeeze, try that in the work office about some job project being incorrectly done, and suffer the scolding that occurs in the process..

Usually, politically correct involves harassing someone for their gender, religion (having calendars with Christian "Bible" verses on your desk wall), or general physique weight stature (obese vs. attractively skinny). So, because of that, some companies have built into their handbook of regulations, potential disciplines that may be enforced if such situations of harassment occur, or get complained about.

Okay, most of us workers understand that. However, when (generic) *you* don't know what irks another person, it isn't your fault entirely that something you said offended the receiving party. That's background to the following story.

Our area was expecting a major (over 12 inches) snowstorm the next morning, which was unexpected since we were enjoying some lovely spring temperatures. So, on my way in, I just happened to meet up with my boss (on our own time, not work time), and asked if she was ready for the impending snow. She said no, but planned not to come in. Reason why I asked was because I was hoping she would approve of me *not* showing up either.

Later that morning, my other coworkers were discussing the impending storm (we took an early break-time... and yes, at our desks--because we like to eat and relax in our own cubicles =). Well, we changed the subject to something different (probably work related), and then our *imperial* boss came in (I have more than 1 boss, and she's one of the superior ones). For whatever the reason, she is either teasing the life out of me or hates my very existence, even tho my completed work makes her job "look good", because good teamwork goes a long way.

Anywho, she decides upon seeing us gathered in some sort of meeting (our own break-time, tho) and vowed in no uncertain terms that if I (meaning *me*) was talking about that blasted snowstorm and ever mentioned that 4-letter word *snow* again for the rest of the day, she swore she was going to fire me. Politically correct? I don't know. She felt harassed because the snow was coming and I ended up being her scapegoat, at that moment, to vent off of.

Well, me and my coworkers just looked at each other like "whaaaaaat??!" Even my immediate boss went into panic mode (she needed me to do something and was stressed out from other things.. didn't want to have to train anyone "new"). So, because we weren't sure if our *imperial* Darth Vadar boss was teasing or for real, because as she said then and there "I have the power to hire and fire, and I will FIRE her, if she says that word again" (today). Yes, she did *LORD* that magic paycheck over my head.
(more to follow)

Why the qualifier "that does not deserve to be derided in context."?
I don't care if you or anyone else thinks it should be derided. The right to express one's views should be absolute. The listener can decide if it's worthy or not.

Just because the shouter has decided he doesn't want to hear it, that doesn't mean others don't. The shouter shouldn't be making the decision for others.

But it's typical. Silence the opposition, rather than allow the ideas to be heard.

Thank you for the reinforcement, Annoyed. =)

Well, naturally-- silenced I was--but, I didn't want to push the issue, because my other half (hubby) is getting retirement harassment issues, and he's still got a few years to go before getting to full pension benefits. I did ask my other coworker (who I was talking with in the first place), since when did the "weather" become a topic for *political correctness*..?

Anyway, I was so upset from that *imperial* (bully) Boss encounter, I stewed over how to approach the weather, if asked again. Well, the subject came up a few hours later, and I said I couldn't discuss it. I don't believe my coworker was provoked to ask me, but I didn't want to push the issue either, and reminded her I was not allowed to discuss that subject. (She forgot. Oooops!) But I did say I did not look at the weather map yet, so I couldn't tell her the latest on where that "white fluffy stuff" was that she was inquiring about.

Hey, I wasn't being allowed to say the WORD *snow*.. She did not specify about the other ways of describing the same thing. AND, To my wonderful surprise, however, someone equal in rank to our *imperial* commanding boss, popped the 4-letter WORD question SNOW to our boss, which the rest of us heard and nearly laughed our socks off. In fact, I heard the *snow* word mentioned at least 3 to 5 different times to her by other people, and oh was she irked..
(good! served her right! She could bully me and pull rank over me, but she couldn't bully them over the same 4-letter word *snow*!)

But anywho, like a good little employee that I was, I never dared say that word "snow" for the rest of the season. I told my hubby, and he said I should have boldly proclaimed in her ear "snow, Snow, SNOW!!!" just for spite.. But, to her, that was her form of being harassed, because she didn't want to see another snow shovel for the rest of the year. I couldn't blame her for the snow shovel issue, because it just seemed that was all we were doing every few days, dragging out the shovels.. which is annoying in its own ways. Next year, I didn't want to see snow, because I whacked my back (fell into a solid, metal corner) days before snow season started and wasn't ready for any snowfalls of any levels. Wishful thinking--Payback? Not sure. It didn't really snow heavy until after my back fully healed. So, those few weeks of recovery were a true blessing in disguise for me.

Part 2 coming up... TBC...

[Gatefan1976]

SG.
If you are going to continue to quote me, please use the WHOLE thing, not just bits, ok.
Otherwise, I am quite prepared to return the "favour"

[SGalisa]

SG.
If you are going to continue to quote me, please use the WHOLE thing, not just bits, ok.
Otherwise, I am quite prepared to return the "favour"

I was trying to keep the line of focus together. So, it isn't easy dumping the whole message in and pulling out bits of my own replies and make the conversation flow enough to make enough sense (well, make enough sense to me, anyway).

Employers trying to provide customer service business to the rest of the world, won't tolerate slackers and whiny, insecure folks for too long, lest it bring down the productivity levels that supports their salaries.

Maybe they are waiting for god to fix it?

{EDIT--fixed above quote.. previous paragraph rambled on about something else, which I thought was part of this.. below.. managers being generation prior.. next generation new guy taking job and taking advantage of employer's employee benefits.. new guy got fired for being a slacker and not being productive enough.. --that next generation "new guy" was my delinquent ex-relative}


No. True story.. one of my (delinquent) ex-relatives. Guy weighs well over 400 pounds. Lied his way into a marriage; had his wife pull most of the paycheck weight. Him? He couldn't even hold a job flipping hamburgers, and keep up with the pace of the customer flows. He was also eating the burgers--(free) side benefit, which he took too much advantage of, and somehow his productivity was on the slowwwwwww end. Pizza job--same problem. Couldn't keep up with the customer requests, because he was on the slowwwwwww side. Plus, he was eating too many pizzas on the side (for free). Taco food place-- same problem all over again. Office jobs requiring a brain, he never even attempted to do. Fast food places--that was where his *appetite* and heart resided, in more than one way.

Needless to say, he didn't last very long in any of those jobs, and every food place he worked at, he didn't keep up with the customer demands (or manager's satisfactory productivity level). My family couldn't believe he was that bad of a worker, but he also used to take his frustrations out on his wife because of his slacking off. She finally left him, but not until she had to get a restraining order against him. His next wife also ended up working, while also getting a law degree, but she saw thru his laziness (he stayed home being a Tv "couch potato" and excessively eating snacks), and wifey #2 shafted him before he had a chance to shaft her.

So, again, needless to say, "Deadbeat Dad" -- he ended up causing his children to suffer (he got the kids from his first wife--more because she didn't want them if she had to work), and they are all still suffering from his lack of being a dedicated father and financial supporter to keep a decent roof over their heads (they all ended up homeless and moved in with "grandma"..!! ..him, too. Plus, he broke "grandma's" favorite sofa because it couldn't support his weight, plunking down on it all those months..).
oh... dearest dad and grandkids all had to eventually leave (took a whole year doing so!), because "grandma's" well was drying up, and her own money was basically non-existent to support 4 extra people on a single person income.

He did get a second chance to prove some sort of worth of himself. Jury verdict is still out on whether he can survive this current round of work (and yes, it's scarily working with food again!), and keep his family in an apartment on their own. His dad is MIA in some rehab place far away, and his mom (who had sheltered all of them) has passed away and is no more, nor is any of her money around any more. So, he's in deep doo-doo if he flunks out on this latest situation.

What naysayers?

The ones who deny the psychopaths exist, even in their own regional neighborhoods. Walking around in their "wonderful" world with proverbial blinders on, that's what the *naysayers* seem to do..

[garhkal]

A lot of Republicans are doing that. Shows how crazy Trump is

OR how out of touch with the Republican voter base these guys and gals are...

In my first job, there were two coworkers taunting at each other's personality "flaws" where the one finally *felt* really insulted and started complaining about it. The other person finally asked in a very sarcastic manner to the insulted, carry-feelings-on-a-sleeve other coworker "Hey, you can dish it out, but you can't take it back? What a wimp..!"
That happened years before offending political correctness (harassment) office rules went into effect.

Sounds like some of the gals i have worked with on ship.. Were MORE than willing to discuss sex, get into sexual jokes etc, BUT when someone said one about THEM< they got all up in arms...

Usually, politically correct involves harassing someone for their gender, religion (having calendars with Christian "Bible" verses on your desk wall),

I've never understood why that is considered harassment.. If i have a calender (or screen saver) on my desk and someone looks and gets 'offended', why should i have to remove it.. Why can't they just not look??

Anywho, she decides upon seeing us gathered in some sort of meeting (our own break-time, tho) and vowed in no uncertain terms that if I (meaning *me*) was talking about that blasted snowstorm and ever mentioned that 4-letter word *snow* again for the rest of the day, she swore she was going to fire me.

I have heard of situations like that before, and i actually would love someone to actually answer "WOULD THAT BE EVEN LEGAL?" If not, then challenge the boss on it.. Surely that counts as creating a hostile work environment..

[Gatefan1976]

I was trying to keep the line of focus together. So, it isn't easy dumping the whole message in and pulling out bits of my own replies and make the conversation flow enough to make enough sense (well, make enough sense to me, anyway).

Then have the good sense to reply to people individually.

No. True story.. one of my (delinquent) ex-relatives. Guy weighs well over 400 pounds. Lied his way into a marriage; had his wife pull most of the paycheck weight. Him? He couldn't even hold a job flipping hamburgers, and keep up with the pace of the customer flows. He was also eating the burgers--(free) side benefit, which he took too much advantage of, and somehow his productivity was on the slowwwwwww end. Pizza job--same problem. Couldn't keep up with the customer requests, because he was on the slowwwwwww side. Plus, he was eating too many pizzas on the side (for free). Taco food place-- same problem all over again. Office jobs requiring a brain, he never even attempted to do. Fast food places--that was where his *appetite* and heart resided, in more than one way.

Needless to say, he didn't last very long in any of those jobs, and every food place he worked at, he didn't keep up with the customer demands (or manager's satisfactory productivity level). My family couldn't believe he was that bad of a worker, but he also used to take his frustrations out on his wife because of his slacking off. She finally left him, but not until she had to get a restraining order against him. His next wife also ended up working, while also getting a law degree, but she saw thru his laziness (he stayed home being a Tv "couch potato" and excessively eating snacks), and wifey #2 shafted him before he had a chance to shaft her.

So, again, needless to say, "Deadbeat Dad" -- he ended up causing his children to suffer (he got the kids from his first wife--more because she didn't want them if she had to work), and they are all still suffering from his lack of being a dedicated father and financial supporter to keep a decent roof over their heads (they all ended up homeless and moved in with "grandma"..!! ..him, too. Plus, he broke "grandma's" favorite sofa because it couldn't support his weight, plunking down on it all those months..).
oh... dearest dad and grandkids all had to eventually leave (took a whole year doing so!), because "grandma's" well was drying up, and her own money was basically non-existent to support 4 extra people on a single person income.

He did get a second chance to prove some sort of worth of himself. Jury verdict is still out on whether he can survive this current round of work (and yes, it's scarily working with food again!), and keep his family in an apartment on their own. His dad is MIA in some rehab place far away, and his mom (who had sheltered all of them) has passed away and is no more, nor is any of her money around any more. So, he's in deep doo-doo if he flunks out on this latest situation.

This has NOTHING to do with what I said.

The ones who deny the psychopaths exist, even in their own regional neighborhoods. Walking around in their "wonderful" world with proverbial blinders on, that's what the *naysayers* seem to do..

-HEAD DESK-

[Gatefan1976]

OR how out of touch with the Republican voter base these guys and gals are...

Alternatively, they see Trump as the toxic windbag he is?

Sounds like some of the gals i have worked with on ship.. Were MORE than willing to discuss sex, get into sexual jokes etc, BUT when someone said one about THEM< they got all up in arms...

The Abstract to the Personal.

I've never understood why that is considered harassment.. If i have a calender (or screen saver) on my desk and someone looks and gets 'offended', why should i have to remove it.. Why can't they just not look??

The problem is not the calender here, it is what is on it.

I have heard of situations like that before, and i actually would love someone to actually answer "WOULD THAT BE EVEN LEGAL?" If not, then challenge the boss on it.. Surely that counts as creating a hostile work environment..

The very notion of hostile work environments is PC in a mostly "at will" working system.

[jelgate]

I understand the need to want someone different than past Republicians. I also don't think someone who clearly has a few screws loose is a good alternative.

[SGalisa]

Then have the good sense to reply to people individually.

Because I am writing on a *public* discussion board, I believe my words are being read by more than just you. Therefore, I have to treat it as a public (broader) piece of conversation--where, at any time, any one person -- besides you (GF) -- can jump in and make replies to my posting. Otherwise, if I were writing only and solely to you, I would send off a private message, instead.

As you and the rest of us reading this topic can plainly see (or read), garhkal did reply to some of what I wrote. If I did not intend for anyone else, other than you (GF) to return a comment, I would have addressed that specifically, but I did not, and did not expect you to take this so personally, either. jeesh!

This has NOTHING to do with what I said.

-HEAD DESK-

Yes it did. I revised the preceding quote, so it flows exactly as you quoted me, and responded with an {EDIT} in return. I also mentioned slackers in my own quote, and gave an example to your remark, which I saw your comment as basic sarcasm to my earlier quote.

Anywho, my original reply was able to stand "as is" (as it was originally written without rewriting it). Seriously, I thought it was/is an outrageous example from my own POV, but it is still a very good example (in as much detail to demonstrate the emphasis of the severity of that particular situation and the massive mess of results that happened in the process). It is sadly a true story, but I left out huge chunks of details.. It would take too many pages to explain, and sounds so unbelievable because of the events that happened along the way. Yeah, I thought of writing a book about it, but names would definitely have to be changed so that the original persona doesn't get *offended*. There'd be a few lessons (morals to be told about) in that story, if ever told, too.

The problem is not the calender here, it is what is on it.

Obviously. The calendar had scenic pictures with Christian bible verses on each month, and some individual days, as well -- Thus, it was *offensive* to an atheist coworker with another obnoxious scoffer in the office who felt *uncomfortable* visiting that cubicle for passing on work instructions. Home away from home. If your cubicle looks more like a prison cell, it makes an unpleasant working environment for the person working in that cubicle. When a Muslim posted his wall calendar of familiar Holy sites or landmarks to Islam, nobody said one peep. So, what is the difference?

The very notion of hostile work environments is PC in a mostly "at will" working system.

Apparently, (GF) you've never worked in an environment where the boss was overly PC about nearly everything, and s/he does it just to see how far s/he can go, before those higher in rank decide enough is enough. BTW, this PC person is also a staunch democrat and devout Hillary Clinton and Obama supporter. S/He also sort of resents that most of the coworkers and underlings in rank do not agree with her/his position on various political (outside of work) issues. Work-related issues must be dealt with on the work level, but external stuff was and is just fluff -- and s/he'll rant or instigate sometimes in excess during *work* hours, not just during lunch and break. Not sure if that person(s) was asked to act that way, just to (be a mole to) sift thru in discovering who was a loyal worker or not; but it did make me wonder quite often why certain things were allowed to continue as long as they did--especially with certain people who basically instigated problems within the office.

Problem is, the upper management really value hers/his work skills when the skills are put into productive action. As far as the PC folks swearing goes, it went on for several years--more than I remember exactly how many, to be exact, but that finally got dealt with as being "unprofessional". It should have been stated in the beginning of the job, and not tolerated at the onset. But I had too many nice bosses in that place who put up with a lot from their peers, because *teamwork* in finishing any particular job was more important than some swearing and PC nonsense that equal team member was venting off (mostly everyone felt the same way, but chose to voice their POV's on various details in a more polite manner).