The Political Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Although, to be fair, it may simply be that you've never encountered stuff like this in Belgium, so you find it hard to believe.

I grew up among teachders and principals of primary schools and high schools. I know the school politics but no, I can honestly say our school system and politics are nothing compared to yours. Probably why I have a hard time wrapping my hear around it.

I like being naive and ignore the world sometimes, but unfortunately the cold hard reality will always pull me back under.

I bought a new Trampoline that can vault my kids over Trumps wall (#makeamericabounceagain), so he is a liar and a failure, I don't know how people could vote for him

[Coco Pops]

I think Americans should invest in trampolines to circumvent the wall.

Now if Trump was President in Star Trek:........

http://users.on.net/~aviannix37/earthpreztrump.jpg

[garhkal]

But, then again, the agencies involved might be defying court orders to turn over such records..

And it seems yet more and more these days, there is no accountability. Especially if you work in government. Had that been you or me who willfully delayed giving requested documents, we would be cited and already wearing orange. As far as the whole willfully deleting info, so the government couldn't get it that also would have landed anyone else in the slammer for destroying evidence...

One can only hope he will toss some heads into the clink. And not a country club white collar prison, either.

Pity Comey showed he has no spine, and is recommending NO charges..

This -whole- line of back and forth started with a basic question, what is a server. Not because I did not know, but because the General Public were being told "it's a bad thing" and they were basing their view on that. "Hillary lies because she has a private server", and G.P. has no basic idea WTF it is talking about, but Hannity and Megyn said it was bad (let alone Billy Boy), so ITS BAD!!
Benghazi, BAD!!!
Oh, sorry, no proof, no nothing after 9 investigations beyond "yeah, well that was a bit dodgy", but lets slaughter her anyway!!

So after deleting 1000s of emails (EVIDENCE) and lying time and time agan, you STILL Don't think there was anything wrong?
Let me guess, you are GLAD that Comey has recommended no charges...

[Annoyed]

I think Americans should invest in trampolines to circumvent the wall.

Now if Trump was President in Star Trek:........

http://users.on.net/~aviannix37/earthpreztrump.jpg

Well, if you recall, TOS canon states that the neutral zone was created to end a bloody war and it was successful in keeping the peace for quite some time. 75 years is the number I think I recall.

Not exactly useless, then, if you ask me.

[garhkal]

Exactly. Just like the DMZ in Korea.

[Annoyed]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...politics_pop_b

And they're not prosecuting!

Most importantly, Comey said the FBI found 110 emails on Clinton's server that were classified at the time they were sent or received. That stands in direct contradiction to Clinton’s repeated insistence she never sent or received any classified emails. And it even stands in contrast to her amended statement that she never knowingly sent or received any classified information.

Comey said Clinton had used not one but multiple private email servers during her time at State. He said Clinton used multiple email devices during that time. (She had offered her desire to use a single device for “convenience” as the main reason she set up the private server.)

Comey said that while the FBI found no evidence that Clinton’s private server was hacked by foreign governments, it was possible that it had been. He argued that the Clinton lawyers had deleted emails they marked as personal that contained professional content, and that while the FBI found some of those emails in its investigation, it was certainly possible more existed that they were unable to track down.

Let's see. sending classified information via an insecure private email server, and more than one flavor of lying to the investigative team for starters.

If this had been you or I, we would be in jail already. And the FBI isn't going to press charges despite knowing what is quoted above and more.

Guess who is calling the shots on this one?

[garhkal]

Let's see. sending classified information via an insecure private email server, and more than one flavor of lying to the investigative team for starters.

If this had been you or I, we would be in jail already. And the FBI isn't going to press charges despite knowing what is quoted above and more.

Guess who is calling the shots on this one?

Not just all that, but you also have her deleting emails, thousands of them. How is that NOT tampering with evidence??

[Womble]

The BBC is pretty amusing in thir talent to contradict themselves within a single article. Here's what happens when they set out to portray ISIS as un-Islamic

More than 160 people are now known to have died in Sunday's appalling attack in Baghdad. It is just one of eight different attacks believed to have been carried out by the so-called Islamic State (IS) over the last month - the Muslim month of Ramadan.
In total, more than 300 people have died in such atrocities from Orlando to Dhaka to Istanbul.
IS is also suspected of being behind an attack on one of the holiest sites in Islam on Monday - the Prophet's Mosque in Medina, Saudi Arabia.
Ramadan is traditionally viewed as the most holy and spiritual month in the Islamic calendar, a time of penance and temperance.
For 30 days, Muslims abstain from drink and food during sunlight hours and believe that God is at his most forgiving during this time.
Mosques are consequently fuller than usual, typically packed with worshippers seeking divine mercy and blessings.
Juxtaposed alongside that ascetic puritanism is the view of radicals who regard Ramadan as a month of conquest and plunder.
They believe it is an opportune moment to double down on their millenarian war against civilisation and therefore launch more attacks than normal.
Indeed, al-Qaeda's official chapter in Syria, the Nusra Front, recently described it as "a month of conquests."

Now, where would Islamic radicals get such a vile idea, that the holy month of Ramadan should be about violence and conquests? Let's read further.

The belief in Ramadan as a month of war comes from Islamic history itself.
The Prophet Muhammad waged his first jihad, known as the Battle of Badr, during Ramadan in 624.
Eight years later he also conquered Mecca during the month of Ramadan, thereby claiming the city which houses one of Islam's most holy sites today: the Kaaba.

In other words, they got it from Muhammad himself. Wouldn't it suggest that ISIS and Al-Qaeda are being true to Islam rather than violating it?

[thekillman]

The problem is that in Dutch England and the UK are used interchangeably. I shall try remember to keep the two apart.

A buttload of things are used interchangeably.

E.g USA and America, UK and England. It's because most news from "the americas" is from the USA and most news from the UK is from England.

It's not as true as it used to be with the internet putting any other source of news within a few clicks, but still, in the common view people simplify the world.

Although, to be fair, it may simply be that you've never encountered stuff like this in Belgium, so you find it hard to believe.

I've come to believe in recent years that the US is the country where everything is possible, except that it goes both ways.

I bought a new Trampoline that can vault my kids over Trumps wall (#makeamericabounceagain), so he is a liar and a failure, I don't know how people could vote for him

The only reason i would vote for Clinton is that i won't be voting for Trump.

But really, look at the two. Don't you think there should be an option #3: redo this whole thing and chose actual candidates?

The BBC is pretty amusing in thir talent to contradict themselves within a single article.
[...]In other words, they got it from Muhammad himself. Wouldn't it suggest that ISIS and Al-Qaeda are being true to Islam rather than violating it?

If you read the bible in a particular way, you can justify a lot of bad things too. For a book that has "you shall not murder" in it's base rules, a surprisingly amount of times there's murder.

Of course, context may change that, but extremists (be that muslims or christians or whatevers) often don't do that.

[Annoyed]

And regarding the FBI's claim that no reasonable prosecutor would press charges...

Seems this guy did the exact same thing, and they chose to prosecute him.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...ntion-classifi

excerpt:

In a scandalous announcement, FBI director James Comey moments ago said that "although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information" and he gave extensive evidence of just that, "our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." He added that "prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past."

What is shocking is that the FBI director was clearly ignoring the US code itself, where in Section 793, subsection (f),"Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information", it makes it quite clear that intent is not a key consideration in a case like this when deciding to press charges, to wit:

However, it seems the FBI did feel that someone else committing the same offense was worthy of prosecution.

excerpt:

Here is the FBI itself, less than a year ago, charging one Bryan H. Nishimura, 50, of Folsom, who pleaded guilty to "unauthorized removal and retention of classified materials" without malicious intent, in other words precisely what the FBI alleges Hillary did (h/t @DavidSirota):

U.S. Magistrate Judge Kendall J. Newman immediately sentenced Nishimura to two years of probation, a $7,500 fine, and forfeiture of personal media containing classified materials. Nishimura was further ordered to surrender any currently held security clearance and to never again seek such a clearance.

So, it seems that once again, the Clintons are above the law.

[Falcon Horus]

Not just all that, but you also have her deleting emails, thousands of them. How is that NOT tampering with evidence??

Hello -- look at this...

Flashback: Rove Erases 22 Million White House Emails on Private Server at Height of U.S. Attorney Scandal – Media Yawns

Remember this one:

Never mind that former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a Republican, has said he used a system similar to Clinton’s — and never mind that in 2007 Karl Rove deleted 22 million emails from a private server in the Bush White House...

[Womble]

If you read the bible in a particular way, you can justify a lot of bad things too. For a book that has "you shall not murder" in it's base rules, a surprisingly amount of times there's murder.

I know, I know. And your country has laws against murder on the books yet murders keep happening. Funny thing, prescriptive vs. descriptive.

It does not apply in the case of Ramadan, however.

You see, there is no Qur'an-based prohibition against fighting on Ramadan. Ramadan ceasefires are, at best, a vague custom rarely observed. and plenty of examples of battles fought - and initiated - by Muslims during Ramadan, both during the times of Muhammad and later on. Read.

Also, the Old Testament figures, venerated as they are by Jews and Christians, are not held up as role models to be emulated. They are, time and again, shown as fallible men who could be -and were - led astray and could be- and were - punished by God for it. This is different from the way Islam presents Muhammad as a flawless example to be emulated. In Judaism, the failings of Moses, David or the prophet Isaiah are openly acknowledged and discussed, but no Muslim will stand up and declare "Muhammad sinned".

[garhkal]

..snip..
Now, where would Islamic radicals get such a vile idea, that the holy month of Ramadan should be about violence and conquests? Let's read further.

The belief in Ramadan as a month of war comes from Islamic history itself.
The Prophet Muhammad waged his first jihad, known as the Battle of Badr, during Ramadan in 624.
Eight years later he also conquered Mecca during the month of Ramadan, thereby claiming the city which houses one of Islam's most holy sites today: the Kaaba.

In other words, they got it from Muhammad himself. Wouldn't it suggest that ISIS and Al-Qaeda are being true to Islam rather than violating it?

Which is why me and several others don't like the term radical, as technically they are the only true adherents to islam.

And regarding the FBI's claim that no reasonable prosecutor would press charges...

Seems this guy did the exact same thing, and they chose to prosecute him.


However, it seems the FBI did feel that someone else committing the same offense was worthy of prosecution

So, it seems that once again, the Clintons are above the law.

And today's news, had Several reports that many prosecutors have claimed THEY would have sought charges with what is known... So his claim "a reasonable DA would not have sought charges" is total bull.

Hello -- look at this...

Flashback: Rove Erases 22 Million White House Emails on Private Server at Height of U.S. Attorney Scandal – Media Yawns

Remember this one:

Actually no i don't remember hearing that. But if true, Karl rove SHOULD have been hammered.

[SoulReaver]

Hello -- look at this...

Flashback: Rove Erases 22 Million White House Emails on Private Server at Height of U.S. Attorney Scandal – Media Yawns

Remember this one:

tss...that wasn't crime that was Patriotism™

In Judaism, the failings of Moses, David or the prophet Isaiah are openly acknowledged and discussed, but no Muslim will stand up and declare "Muhammad sinned".

that guy may have committed more sins than the average bloke
(and if they regard Mahomet as perfect then they're guilty of blaspheme since they're supposed to worship just 1 god & only he's perfect)

now Jesus was perfect - never supposed to have committed a single sin no matter how benign - but the dilemma was solved by making Jesus = God so no blasphemy

[thekillman]

Which is why me and several others don't like the term radical, as technically they are the only true adherents to islam.

Hardly so. Islam and it's rules are subject to interpretation like any belief.

It doesn't allow the killing of innocents (e.g. women) and the basis of self-defense does not justify muslims being the agressor.