Religious Beliefs

[jenks]

I see your point. Well made. From my perspective, though, Atheists make the assumption that there is no God. Theists make the assumption there is one, or more. Neither can possibly know for sure. I have no idea which position came first. And I don't know how Agnostics fit in between the other two. But Atheists seem to actively try to prove there is only the natural world. While Theists try to prove there is a spiritual world headed by God(s). It seems to an ongoing conflict in this thread.

~Dave

Technically atheism is a lack of belief though, it's not necessarily a disbelief as such, that's why everyone is born an atheist.

The age old question of:

If the universe is everything, and it is expanding, what is it expanding in to?

~Dave

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding it's the matter and energy in the universe that's expanding, into the vacuum of space that's already there. Someone might have to correct me on that though, because I'm not really sure.

[~Dave]

Technically atheism is a lack of belief though, it's not necessarily a disbelief as such, that's why everyone is born an atheist.

I can't really argue with that. Although some say that we are born as blank slates, and wait for indoctrination into a belief system.

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding it's the matter and energy in the universe that's expanding, into the vacuum of space that's already there. Someone might have to correct me on that though, because I'm not really sure.

It goes back to what there was before the universe was created. Doesn't that have to be what the universe is expanding in to?

~Dave

[dalene]

yes i do see, i exercised my free will and decided to do as i please. i just think that if there is a god, he really has no reason to punish me, since i don't ever do anything even remotely evil. and if there isn't a god, i have nothing to fear anyway.

granted, you may have never committed a felony, or even a misdemeanor by the law of whatever country/state you live in, but you've never done anything wrong? you've never lied to anyone about anything? you've never stolen anything? anything at all? you've never spoken badly about someone throughout your entire life? never cheated at a game? never cheated in school? no one is perfect, not any one of us.

you also said that you follow the word of god, which is the bible... but how can you or anyone truely know that the bible is the word of god, and not the word of satan.

bc satan wouldn't give such glory & honor to anyone but himself.

[dalene]

Common sense? The Bible is hardly the be all and end all of morality, it teaches men are better than women, two wrongs makes a right, and suicide it worse than murder. You need a conscience, empathy and the smallest amount of philosophical thinking to make your own moral judgements, you don't need an out of date book to do if for you.

i'm sorry, but i don't remember anywhere in the bible where it says 2 wrongs make a right, men are better than women, or suicide is worse than murder. Bible reference (verses) pls?

the Bible is history & past culture - & it's history of those cultures that showed men dominated women. God never said men are better. if you can find it, pls show me. thx.

[dalene]

Many people simply are evil. Maybe they were never introduced to the concept of of the Golden Rule. So they never had a free choice to exercise?

Then there are others who think good is whatever gets them what they want. I think many in government fall into this category. LOL!

Then others think that good is killing everyone else who does not accept their loving faith as the absolute law. There-by wiping out "evil".

So many different ideas of what constitutes "good" with no absolute basis to build from.

~Dave

you all ever watch the show Heroes? lots of people think they're doing the right thing...but are they? hmm...

[~Dave]

i'm sorry, but i don't remember anywhere in the bible where it says 2 wrongs make a right, men are better than women, or suicide is worse than murder. Bible reference (verses) pls?

the Bible is history & past culture - & it's history of those cultures that showed men dominated women. God never said men are better. if you can find it, pls show me. thx.

Exactly right. IMHO. If I remember end time prophesy, both your sons and daughters shall prophesy in those times. Sounds pretty equal to me.

~Dave

[dalene]

Well, technically The Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are two entirely different entities.

While I agree that the BBT can still be questioned, the theory of evolution, on the other hand, is pretty solid.

actually it's not (evolution is not entirely solid). there are huge gaps in the fossil record & we still do not have absolute proof that our human ancestors were primates. it's as solid as BBT in that we do not have all the necessary info to prove it.

[dalene]

Going to God out of depression or fear is actually a pretty selfish thing to do...and while it's not necessarily a BAD thing....staying with God because you’re afraid of hell or because you want the super happy feelings isn't good.

absolutely ITA

[dalene]

Vague? Have you been paying attention to scientific advancements, read The Origin of Species, or any other definitive text on the subject?

FYI: Darwin became a Christian after he wrote it.

[~Dave]

absolutely ITA

Well we have the promise of paradise, or the pain of everlasting separation from God, or maybe eternal fire. This is the motivating force in the Bible itself. So, is the "selfish" human instinct of self preservation not in play in deciding just about everything we do?

~Dave

[dalene]

So, if I understand correctly, you're saying that at some point, due to evolution, a creature that was not an Emperor Penguin laid an egg with an Emperor Penguin in it?

~Dave

yeah, what came first: the penguin or the egg?

[dalene]

So in other words god overrides their free will.. They write what HE wanted them to write. Hmmmm sounds suspicious.

if your mom asks you to write the shopping list for her as she's rummaging thru the refrigerator & you make the list with a pen & paper...are you a robot or helping out your mom?

[dalene]

I'm Catholic and certainly do say the Hail Mary. But I'd like to make one thing clear: no Catholic will tell you that they are worshiping the Mother of God as they should be God. The Hail Mary and other prayers to saints and such are forms of asking for their intersession, not forms of worship to them.

"Hail Mary, full of grace, of Lord is with thee. Blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy whom, Jesus": Just a greeting.
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen.": Just a request for her to intercede to her Son for us.

See? We're just asking her to pray for us to her Son. Remember the wedding at Cana? When Mary told Jesus they had run out of wine? At first, He seemed reluctant to do anything about it. But Mary told the servants to do what He said, then He did turn the water to wine to please His Mother. That's why we ask her to pray for us, because as God's mother, she is the most influential person one can ask to pray for them.

ok, well, my parents were Catholic & Lutheran, so i got a taste of each. i'm non-denominational

my thing is, & i would imagine other non-Catholic Christians as well(?), we don't ask Mary, or any of the saints, to pray for us bc (& I do say this with respect) being dead they cannot hear us. they are with God, enjoying & worshiping Him, but Christ is our Intercessor & Mediator at the right hand of the Father. we don't need someone else to convince Him to listen to us. He loves us & is listening & knows our hearts entirely without a spoken word. no human who was once alive can do that - no angel can do that either .

[dalene]

Does this apply to every decision making process? Surely if someone is that literal then they effectively have "no free will" at all and have divorced themselves from any kind of thought process.

If that is called living we may as well be robots.

what is it with this thread & thinking that if you choose God you lose free will? you can ask God for guidance like you can ask your dad for guidance in buying a car. it doesn't mean that you will necessarily buy the car that He/he recommends! you're just asking for wisdom to try to make a good decision. YOU'RE still the one buying the car of your choice!

[dalene]

I'm fuzzy on the free will thing as well. They say God is all knowing. So He knows what I'm going to do every second of my entire life. So, if my actions are known before I make them, then how do I have free will? Don't I have to do exactly what God knows I will do? I cannot choose to do anything else? Definitely not clear on this one either.

~Dave

he knows what you will end up choosing to do, but He doesn't make you do it.