Female Characters

[katjoy]

Ok then, we agree.

Good.

that we do

In that case i apologise if my reply was tetchy

thanks

[Skydiver]

you hide it for as long as you can, as well as you can, and then...teyla goes off on some mission, like what if there had been a rumor about something to end the wraith threat, or the athosians went missing or something....and sam/woolsey wouldn't let her go to find them so she goes rogue...thus explaining her absence and differed appearance when she returns

[Killdeer]

Major Cam Mitchell would have made sense. He'd be the green guy that came in, got command, then had to choose, keep command of his own team when Carter came back, or give up command to 'learn from the best'.

but, if they did that then the new lead male of the show would be answering to a woman, and apparantly they didn't want that to happen, thus lt colonel mitchell co-leading the team

they wanted to have thier cake and eat it too, have the young and enthusiastic new guy PLUS have him be the boss ordering around (or attempting to) people with ten times his experience.

Dismiss my opinion all you want, but I cannot find another reason to put the inexperienced new character in command of the more experienced old hands beyond catering to the gender of said new guy in preference over the gender of the existing commander of the team

I don't quite understand why they constructed the Mitchell character as they did anyway. Why make him younger than all the rest, equal rank with Sam, no gate experience? If they really wanted him as the lead, why not make him a full-bird colonel with gate experience? Jack couldn't have been the only Colonel in the Stargate program. And after all, Ben Browder was 42 when he started on SG-1, older than all the rest of the cast except Beau Bridges - he didn't have to be playing the naive youngster. If they'd made his character the same age as his real age, he wouldn't have been much younger than Jack when Jack started leading SG-1 (although I'm always a little fuzzy on exactly what O'Neill's age is supposed to be).

It just seems like they created some unnecessary problems for themselves. *shrugs*

[Skydiver]

well, i think it was felt he needed to be young to appeal to the 'male 18-44' demo that they covet so much.

Mitchell was doomed from the get go. they tried to make him too much and ended up making him a mess of contradictions.

They did the same with Keller on SGA. In fact, except for the 'heroically saved the team and was promised whatever job he wanted' and 'being given the CMOH', the parallels between mitchell and Keller are there.

[Rosehawk]

hot zone was episode 13 and the siege was a two parter before the end of season 1...

what about the 12 episodes before they had a heated discussion over the segregation of duties between weir and sheppard...

i cant specifically remember [that doesnt mean it didnt happen] a scene before that that established weir solely as administrator and sheppard as military commander...

my point was that if this is the case it should have been established in the first episode not 13 episodes later at which point there are bound to be viewers going 'huh, i thought weir was the head of the atlantis expedition'...

I guess to me, it doesn't matter when it happen, as long as it did happen. You can't get everything in the first episode and in Rising Sheppard wasn't even the military leader and the Colonel who was the military leader left no doubt in my mind that he felt he was in charge - he unfortunetly died before he had a chance to challenge Weir's position which I think he would have since they were cut off from Earth. Granted, I would like to have seen more of the conflict much sooner and would love to have watch Weir made her argument sooner but I am happy that we did get it.

id give the general public a little more credit... since a stomach of that size and shape can only mean pregnancy i think that people would get it...

For the most part, yes a stomach of that size and shape usually means pregancy, though not always. I have seen people with tumors that take on the same shape and size and yes, they can grow fast!

I liked the fact that they did write Teyla's pregnancy into the show. I hate it when shows try to hide it without explaining it. it's not only changes to the stomach area, but women's faces tend to get alittle fuller as well as the breasts.

I just would like to have seen more how Teyla's would have handled the pregnancy based on her own cultures concerns rather than our current social issues. I had a bit of a hard time with Teyla doubting whether it was good to be a part of the team after her pregnancy if it wasn't okay during her pregnancy as I don't see that as being an issue in her culture. Instead of John reassuring her in Quarantine, I would love to have seen Teyla been the one reassuring John that she would be back.

[suse]

Not everyone is as accepting of unexplained swellings of the abdomen as you are.

Especially when we went from showing it off to hiding it.

I couldn't care less whether they used the pregnancy or not. The point is, like Teyla, Sam could have had a valid reason to be temporarily away. One that didn't include happily handing her command over to LMAH C. "Shaft" Mitchell.

suse

[Spirit]

I think the problem you (and most civilians) are having is not understanding the connotations the military attach to the word command. Under US law a civilian cannot command a military unit though they may hold supervisory positions and provide work direction. Which is exactly what we have seen in Atlantis when it comes to a military situation Shep is in charge.

alot of people probably made the assumption that she is in command of atlantis and that that command puts her in position to tell everyone, including sheppard, what to do...

maybe if they had been more clear from the start that weir was an administrator on atlantis, with a say over negotiating and the day to day operations of running atlantis, while sheppard was in command of the military aspects people wouldnt be so confused now...

people with no background knowledge on the inner workings of the military are going to see weir in what appears to be an equivalent position to hammond/landry... and correct me if im wrong, but it wasnt established upfront that weir was the administrator and sheppard was in command of military operations... weir was the shown to be the head of the atlantis expedition, which to alot of people will equate to boss, leader, in charge...

it is the writers job to explain such things, and IMO they left it all very open for interpretation...

That's just it ~ When I watch the show, it does appears that way. They never did implied that Weir cannot give 'commands/orders' to military personnels. I mean it certainly doesn't seem that way. Sure Sheppard was in charge of the combat situations because he's usually the one to go off world. No, I don't see Weir giving combat orders as she've never been a solider before.

It's like the president.. Not every president was in the military and yet they're the Command in Chief? Sure they don't necessary give orders to combat troops while they're on the field but the President has the ultimate say. Doesn't he? Unless I'm understanding this whole military operation wrong.

But regardless, like kat have mentioned, I don't see any clarification as to what extend Weir can go in terms of giving military personnel orders.

[katjoy]

I guess to me, it doesn't matter when it happen, as long as it did happen. You can't get everything in the first episode and in Rising Sheppard wasn't even the military leader and the Colonel who was the military leader left no doubt in my mind that he felt he was in charge - he unfortunetly died before he had a chance to challenge Weir's position which I think he would have since they were cut off from Earth. Granted, I would like to have seen more of the conflict much sooner and would love to have watch Weir made her argument sooner but I am happy that we did get it.

i feel they could have introduced it in the first ep by having weir say in passing to sheppard, something along the lines of 'when you have a minute stop by my office, id like to discuss how the military operation will fit in with the day to day running of atlantis'...

For the most part, yes a stomach of that size and shape usually means pregancy, though not always. I have seen people with tumors that take on the same shape and size and yes, they can grow fast!

ok, so a tumour could have the same growth time and characteristics or pregnancy... but they would hardly let an actress come to work with an oversized tumour, they would be given time off to have it removed...

I liked the fact that they did write Teyla's pregnancy into the show. I hate it when shows try to hide it without explaining it. it's not only changes to the stomach area, but women's faces tend to get alittle fuller as well as the breasts.

i agree that if other parts of the actress change then they should address it, and they often do... its most typically done by saying that the character has started eating more, and then once the actress has the baby they have the character face the eating issue by exericising to 'get back into shape'...

but i dont personally have a problem with them not explaining the pregnancy, because we know why the belly is there, and that it wont be there forever...

I just would like to have seen more how Teyla's would have handled the pregnancy based on her own cultures concerns rather than our current social issues. I had a bit of a hard time with Teyla doubting whether it was good to be a part of the team after her pregnancy if it wasn't okay during her pregnancy as I don't see that as being an issue in her culture. Instead of John reassuring her in Quarantine, I would love to have seen Teyla been the one reassuring John that she would be back.

this i totally agree with... teylas pregnancy should have been dealt with from an athosian perspective not a human one... and i would have loved to have seen teyla reassuring sheppard instead of the other way around...

[fumblesmcstupid]

Patricia Richardson from Home Improvement was pregnant during one season and they never wrote it in.

I know *I* am smart enough to understand if an actress is pregnant that does not mean the character is ganna have a baby. *eyeroll*

[bluealien]

I guess to me, it doesn't matter when it happen, as long as it did happen. You can't get everything in the first episode and in Rising Sheppard wasn't even the military leader and the Colonel who was the military leader left no doubt in my mind that he felt he was in charge - he unfortunetly died before he had a chance to challenge Weir's position which I think he would have since they were cut off from Earth. Granted, I would like to have seen more of the conflict much sooner and would love to have watch Weir made her argument sooner but I am happy that we did get it.

Sumner was in charge of the Military but still had to defer to Weir.. she had the overall say in Atlantis.. Shep even joked about it going through the gate that Weir was the boss.

Within Atlantis Weir had the final say in ALL matters including military and this was my problem... she decided if she felt something was a military matter or not.. as she did in Hot Zone where she shuts Sheppard out instead of immediately consulting him as it was a threat to the city and a security issue.. she also over rode his decision to increase security for Michael and look how that turned out... she interferred in things she shouldnt have IMO..
The only time the control was taken away from her was when the military from Earth stepped in and then Shep took orders directly from them.. but look how she reacted to that in First Strike.. she seemed more annoyed that she wasnt consulted and not that Earth could be in grave danger..

Weir never came across as a strong leader and she never instilled any confidence in me with her leadership abilities and Sheppard seemed to feel the same, but I never felt like this about Sam.. if the ptb decide to have Atlantis at war from the very first episode how can a civilian negotiater be the right person for the job... she shouldnt have been the overall leader IMO.. it should have been a co leadership.. she still handled all the civilian side and Sheppard the military without any interference from Weir. If Weir had been in control how would the outcome of First Stirke have turned out.. would Sheppard have been put in a position to disoby her again.. and again I couldnt have blamed him..I dont know why the writers went this route.. I guess they were going for conflict with it didnt work out at all and it didnt show Weir in a very good light.... and how could Sheppard trust her or feel confident in her decisions with the way she acted in First Strike..

I liked the fact that they did write Teyla's pregnancy into the show. I hate it when shows try to hide it without explaining it. it's not only changes to the stomach area, but women's faces tend to get alittle fuller as well as the breasts.

I woluldnt have minded them keeping her pregnancy in the show if they had handed it better and kept true to Teyla's character... but they suceeded in ruining her character and I hardly recognised this new Teyla they created. They could of have Michael as the father and this would have explained his obsession with her and him wanting to kidnap Torren but the incipid boyfriend out of nowhere routine was totally cringeworthy.. why would Teyla lie to her closest friends about her relationship with this man and where did she get the time to spend so much time with him when she was shown hanging out with her team when she had any downtime..
.

I just would like to have seen more how Teyla's would have handled the pregnancy based on her own cultures concerns rather than our current social issues. I had a bit of a hard time with Teyla doubting whether it was good to be a part of the team after her pregnancy if it wasn't okay during her pregnancy as I don't see that as being an issue in her culture. Instead of John reassuring her in Quarantine, I would love to have seen Teyla been the one reassuring John that she would be back.

Teyla turned into an inconsistant character who snaped Sheppards head off for being upset that she lied to him, and the Teyla we had seen previously would never have been this self centered or deceitful.. she says nothing changes for Athosian women while pregnant and again snaps at Sheppard for the concern he shows her and the fact that he was angry that she hid her pregnancy from him and could have put the team in danger.. but then after the baby is born she is saying the opposite and is all wishy washy about whether she can come back on the team.. huh!! what happened to nothing changing in the Athosian culture.. if she was still with her people and a leader of her people .. would she have been hiding away in her tent and avoiding any danger.. this was a women who grew up with danger and now she doesnt seem to know her own mind and her invisible lover had to point it out for her... horrible horrible characterization of Teyla..


and the writers seemed to use this opportunity to wallpaper her even more.. she is now a mom .... can't she still be a sexy woman and a mom and a strong leader who still wants to make the PG galaxy a better place for her son... so hiding the pregnany would have been a much better option IMO.. as the writers just ruined her character and I guess AT wasnt going to take that chance with her character and thank god she didn't..

[Falcon Horus]

...teyla goes off on some mission, like what if there had been a rumor about something to end the wraith threat, or the athosians went missing or something....and sam/woolsey wouldn't let her go to find them so she goes rogue...thus explaining her absence and differed appearance when she returns

And in this case they could have written a darker Teyla, even if it were only snippets.

[Killdeer]

They did the same with Keller on SGA. In fact, except for the 'heroically saved the team and was promised whatever job he wanted' and 'being given the CMOH', the parallels between mitchell and Keller are there.

There are parallels, definitely - also between Keller and Vala. But for me the difference is the casting - Staite was just (IMO) flat too young to carry off that role no matter how they'd written her. The writing just accentuated IMO what a poor casting choice it was, whereas for Cam and Vala the casting is what saved the characters for me - I was able to enjoy the characters in spite of the poor writing because of the actors playing them. *shrugs* I know not everyone could do that though.

[Stormtrooper]

you hide it for as long as you can, as well as you can, and then...teyla goes off on some mission, like what if there had been a rumor about something to end the wraith threat, or the athosians went missing or something....and sam/woolsey wouldn't let her go to find them so she goes rogue...thus explaining her absence and differed appearance when she returns

That's how TPTW would get rid of Teyla if they wanted to. She goes off on some rogue mission... and is never seen again.

[Mandysg1]

I haven't watched Atlantis much and not the last season, and the discussion of Wier has brought up a question. Was the way Wier was treated as the leader of Atlantis different than Woolsey, with both of them being civilians?

[Falcon Horus]

I haven't watched Atlantis much and not the last season, and the discussion of Wier has brought up a question. Was the way Wier was treated as the leader of Atlantis different than Woolsey, with both of them being civilians?

And add the female/male actors to that question, and we're back on topic.