Female Characters

[Skydiver]

It's a valid point, though. If you're going to write someone experienced enough to be a CMO, for example, they simply can't be young. So again, the writers wanted Jewel Staite, fine, but they refused to write the right kind of character. You're both right, it seems. The writers refused to see the inherent contradictions in what they were writing and let their preference for the actor take precedence over story/character concerns.

and they do that a lot. it's not just hiring an actor they like. Can't blame them for that in the slightest. but they fall so in love with the actors that htey don't seem to pay much attention to the characters they play, and how those characters fit into the show.

Vala for example. Some loved her. fine. but, how she was warped to fit into the show degraded her (in my opinion). she went from savvy and a bit OTT space thief to a love interest and plot device for daniel.

But... if you had two identical characters, the only difference that one was a man and one was a woman, would they be treated the same in the show? Would the other characters' reactions to their actions be the same? Would they get the same focus in terms of storylines, arc, character development?

I kinda doubt it and that's all on the writers. But it's a pretty theoretical discussion since we don't have any concrete examples.

Though, Teyla as the warrior who got pushed aside by Ronon is a pretty salient example. It's probably as close as we can get. And I'll again reference the Brad Wright interview that... I believe it was suse?... linked. The Teyla character wasn't "good enough" to do all the fighting on the show, it was "a problem." And what's the only difference between her and Ronon? They're both accomplished warriors, skilled fighters, and Teyla led her people.

I'm sorry, but all we're left with is that Teyla's a she and Ronon's a he.

It doesn't get any more black and white than that.

and the double standard continues.

the 'little woman' is put down in favor of the 'big guy', presumably a character they can better wrap their minds around. IN MY OPINION, the writers do a lot of living vicariously through their characters. and, also in my opinion, they get a bit too carried away with their fantasies, often to the point that the characters suffer because of it.

the writers are all capable of doing good stuff. we've all seen it. but IN MY OPINION they need someone to keep them on track. they need someone to fill in the plot holes, someone to take a look at how they're writing these characters and go 'yeah, girls don't act that way' or 'how come teyla cant' do it?'

[majorsal]

Vala for example. Some loved her. fine. but, how she was warped to fit into the show degraded her (in my opinion). she went from savvy and a bit OTT space thief to a love interest and plot device for daniel.

i thought the show was warped to make her fit into it. they changed 'the show', instead of writing vala in a believable way. to me that is.

[ykickamoocow]

Rodney's (slightly braver) matched set.

Seriously, do you think Rodney would have had such a large part on the show had he been Rodnetta? With his personal idiosyncrasies? Rodney was a whiner 95% of the time, Keller was only in dangerous situations (and a bit insecure at the beginning).

Would he have been considered nearly as funny as a woman? IMO, no. (And tbh, I'd had enough of him by the end of S1. Me: "Shut up and work! You're wasting (my) time!")

suse

Actually McKay didnt whine when in dangerous situations. He whined all the time when there was no danger but when things got life threatening he tended to shut up and do his job (and usually end up saving the day as well).

[katjoy]

I wonder how much screentime AT could've had in the first 6 episodes if they filmed all of her scenes for those episodes after she came back (like how they did the scene where she talks to Cam via the video phone thing in Avalon Part 1).

I don't quite get your scenerio, katjoy. AT can't appear in any of the first 5 episodes, besides cameos. So, what happens during those episodes? Yes, you provided a backstory that says Sam was off visiting Cassie, but that's no different from what happened in the show. From your scenerio, and AT's schedule, it seems like Mitchel first appears in episode 6, when Sam returns from her vacation and she, Danny, and Teal'c go visit him. What happens during the first 5 episodes? When does AT come back to the show full-time in your scenerio?

ok, i see where you are coming from... but your assuming that the first 5 eps play out as they did on the show except for the sam being on holidays part... they could have still done cameos with sam but used them to achieve a different end... they could have had a couple of character focused eps... they could have had an episode where something happened on base and didnt require them to be offworld in a team with a leader scenario... or daniel and tealc could simply have been coming back from a follow up diplomatic encounter with a planet [not showing anything before them arriving back]... or they could have had them join another sg team because their expertise was needed... they could then have had a mitchell focused ep where he is debriefed on what to expect when joining the sgc and sg1 in particular... there are many ways they could have written interesting stories without bringing mitchell in as the new leader from the start of the season... you asked where does AT come back full time in my scenario, the same place she did before... however what you assumed was that in my scenario mitchell was always there... i was suggesting they didnt necessarily have to introduce mitchell full time in the first 4 or even 5 eps...

[ykickamoocow]

ok, i see where you are coming from... but your assuming that the first 5 eps play out as they did on the show except for the sam being on holidays part... they could have still done cameos with sam but used them to achieve a different end... they could have had a couple of character focused eps... they could have had an episode where something happened on base and didnt require them to be offworld in a team with a leader scenario... or daniel and tealc could simply have been coming back from a follow up diplomatic encounter with a planet [not showing anything before them arriving back]... or they could have had them join another sg team because their expertise was needed... they could then have had a mitchell focused ep where he is debriefed on what to expect when joining the sgc and sg1 in particular... there are many ways they could have written interesting stories without bringing mitchell in as the new leader from the start of the season... you asked where does AT come back full time in my scenario, the same place she did before... however what you assumed was that in my scenario mitchell was always there... i was suggesting they didnt necessarily have to introduce mitchell full time in the first 4 or even 5 eps...

Or maybe, just maybe the writers didnt think Carter was a interesting enough character to lead the team (and the show).

[katjoy]

Or maybe, just maybe the writers didnt think Carter was a interesting enough character to lead the team (and the show).

youre obvious dislike of sams character is not a compelling reason why she did not maintain leadership of sg1 in s9 and s10...

in fact, if the writers didnt think she was an interesting character why did they ask AT to join the cast of atlantis... why if they thought sam was so lacking in interest did they invite her back for cameos in s5 of atlantis after scheduling conflicts with sanctuary had AT bow out of being in the show full time... why if they think she is not interesting has she already been green lighted to guest star in stargate universe...

Spoiler:

'Stargate Universe' nabs guest stars

April 15, 2009 Four veterans of the "Stagate" franchise, Richard Dean Anderson, Amanda Tapping, Michael Shanks and Gary Jones, will reprise their roles in guest stints. Anderson plays General O'Neil, the former leader of the elite military team SG-1. Tapping plays Samantha Carter, an astrophysicist and U.S. Air Force lieutenant colonel.

and writers opinions aside, if she is not an interesting character why is sam so popular... why has AT received so many awards for her portrayal of sam... why is it there are people who didnt watch atlantis until s4...

just because you didnt like the character doesnt mean that she wasnt interesting, doesnt mean that she didnt have what it takes to lead the team or the show...

[PG15]

ok, i see where you are coming from... but your assuming that the first 5 eps play out as they did on the show except for the sam being on holidays part... they could have still done cameos with sam but used them to achieve a different end... they could have had a couple of character focused eps... they could have had an episode where something happened on base and didnt require them to be offworld in a team with a leader scenario... or daniel and tealc could simply have been coming back from a follow up diplomatic encounter with a planet [not showing anything before them arriving back]... or they could have had them join another sg team because their expertise was needed... they could then have had a mitchell focused ep where he is debriefed on what to expect when joining the sgc and sg1 in particular... there are many ways they could have written interesting stories without bringing mitchell in as the new leader from the start of the season... you asked where does AT come back full time in my scenario, the same place she did before... however what you assumed was that in my scenario mitchell was always there... i was suggesting they didnt necessarily have to introduce mitchell full time in the first 4 or even 5 eps...

The thing is, seasons usually start BIG. Whether that's a changeable formula or not is up for debate, but IMHO it should start big in order to wow the first-time viewers so that they'd stick around. What you described doesn't sound very big. Character episodes are nice, but even those have some kind of action stuff happening, some kind of problem to solve.

All I'm assuming for the beginning of the season is that the Ori are introduced somehow, and so is Mitchell (but not as the leader of the team). Since I like Vala, her inclusion would be nice too. I believe it can be done, but it takes a little thought. TPTB definitely picked the easier option. If Sam doesn't willingly leave the team like in the show, then something else needs to happen so that she is unavailable when the episodes happen; and since most episodes revolve around a problem that requires Sam's expertise, she'd better be VERY unavailable, or else it would just make no sense. I.e. you can't just accept that she'd rather hang out with Cassie then save the world, or the SGC, or even a person's life. She'd be there in the thick of it, logically.

This makes her different from Daniel. He can afford to spend time at Camelot and research while the rest of the team faces a hostile takeover of the base by an ex-System Lord, or a ravaging monster on the loose in a forest, but Sam can't; she is essential during those scenerios. In fact, she's usually essential everywhere since she's a damn good warrior and a damn good scientist.

But, I'm always up for a good creative challenge. How's this (spoilered for length):

Spoiler:

Avalon Part 1: Major Cameron Mitchell, big fan of SG1, ace pilot who saved SG1's ass over Antarctica, finally gets out of hospital and wants a job at the SGC. He wants to be part of SG1, since they still have only a 3-person team. Landry, the new General, agrees to give him a try after reviewing his record, but will only give him the title of 2nd in command of SG1 after he's been with the team for a bit. We find out that Teal'c is visiting Dakara, Danny is gonna go to Atlantis for a bit in a few hours, and Sam is offworld leading another team, looking at a cool Ancient device or whatever. Cam decides to visit them to see if he's up to the challenge of joining them. Kind of like what happened in the show, except that he also visits Sam on her planet. It's a short walk and talk between the two (i.e. a cameo). Sam has confidence that Cam will do just fine. One of Sam's scientists manages to figure out how to turn on the Ancient device, and Sam goes to work, telling Cam that she'll be busy now and that it's best if he gets back to the SGC. Cam follows her orders.

As soon as Cam returns, Vala arrives. She shows everyone the tablet, gets Danny to wear that bracelet, and all that stuff happens. Meanwhile, Landry decides to check up on Sam since she's missed her deadline. Apparently, the Ancient device (read: plot device) has damaged the Stargate on her end and she can't dial out; still, she's relatively safe so it's not a big deal; she'll just figure it out somehow (cameo #2).

With Sam out of the picture, the rest of the episode happens as is.

Avalon Part 2: Add in a checkup on Sam, saying she's still working on the Stargate, and have her worry about Danny and Vala, and everything can be the same. 1 more cameo.

Origin: Here's where things get interesting. The first Prior to come to the Milky Way conveniently comes to the planet where Sam is. Sam is intrigued (cameo #4). On Danny's side, everything happens as is, until towards the end. A little twisting of the plot is necessary.

As the Prior talk Ori with the locals, Sam and her team watch on (cameo #5), and soon decides to interject once they realize that he's capitalizing on the Goa'uld power vacuum. Sam and her team confront the Prior; after a few well-chose words, the Prior seems to be silenced. However, he seems to take an interest in Sam's intellegence, and approaches her suspiciously. She and her team raise their weapons, but the Prior throws her team away into the air (ala Beachhead). Sam opens fire, but the Prior stops the bullets. He then vaporizes Sam (or so it seems) - this is much longer than a cameo, and requires stunts. The locals are impressed. The Prior then heads to the Stargate, where with a simple wave of his hands manages to dial out. The Gate makes some weird noises and the Prior seems to just toss something through it, an invisible something.

Ok, what happens, is that the Prior made Sam invisible (somehow) and unconscious, and then enabled the gate to draw massive amounts of power for a brief moment so that he can send Sam back to the Ori galaxy for study. She's captured! On noes!!

Some time later, Landry checks in on Sam again, and finds no one there. Mitchell volunteers to check it out, despite the fact that they know the Stargate there can't dial out. Landry agrees, while also ordering the Prometheus to head there just in case. He sends Mitchell and a team, as in the show. However, he finds that the Stargate is working again (thanks to the Prior), he tells Landry this and then heads for the village. He finds the Prior there, preaching, and he tells Mitchell that he and he alone knows what happened to Sam Carter and her team, that he was helpless to aid them (a lie, obviously), but can tell Mitchell and his team what happened in exchange for a trip to Earth. Mitchell agrees, after a little convincing, and leads the Prior back to Earth.

The Prior is interrogated (nicely) for the whereabouts of Sam and her team. Danny wakes up, tells them of the Ori, and goes back to sleep again. Mitchell puts two and two together, and realizes that it must've been the Prior that attacked Sam, and demands to know what happened. The Prior tells them all that Sam has very valuable info (i.e. the most up-to-date info on Earth's defenses), before he bursts into flames. The team mulls over the arrival of the Ori, and promises to get Sam back at all costs, as it's evident from the Prior's words that Sam must still be alive in order for them to get info from her.

The next 2 episodes will be decidedly less fun as a result. They go back to the planet Sam was at and analyse the DHD; they find out that someone dialed an 8-symbol adress; again, putting 2 and 2 together, they realize that Sam is in the Ori galaxy. It's rescue mission time!

Ok, let's say that they don't destroy the communications terminal thing. Well, the rescue mission can involve Daniel and Vala going in again (this time as different people), and be "on the inside", while Cam and Teal'c lead a team through the Stargate (they have the address from the DHD on the world Sam was on, and they can use a Mark II generator for power) to go to the Ori galaxy to rescue Sam (who is of course absent for both the 4th and 5th episodes). Wow, this is exciting. I'm good.

Anyways, they rescue Sam, she appears again at the end of the 5th episode (cameo #6), alive and well (or not; depending on how the story goes). The only problem is that this is not very original; it's basically a retread of Children of the Gods and Rising in that it's another search and rescue mission.

If Sam isn't harmed much, then by episode 6, she can go back to commanding SG1, with Mitchell as 2nd in command, and with Daniel and Teal'c on the team as usual. Vala will tag along for as long as the braceletss effects are still there. Beachhead happens, and the rest of the season happens as is, unless something can be spun off my little creative spiel up above there.

Phew, that's a lot of writing. Whatever you think of it, one thing is clear: Sam is still in a lot of scenes. I tried to get her screentime down as much as I can; she has small scenes (with some being cameos) throughout the first 3 episodes, she's not in the 4th one, and she's only at the end of the 5th one, I guess. Even that may be too little, as I would want to see her ordeal during episodes 4 (at least one look at what the Ori were doing to her) and 5.

So yeah, after all that, AT'S still got a lot of work to do once she gets back from maternity leave. Considering that she's only in 1 cameo throughout the show's first 5 episodes, I don't think mine actually works; it'll be too much.

It just shows you how hard it is, I guess (or that I'm not good enough at this.)

[ykickamoocow]

youre obvious dislike of sams character is not a compelling reason why she did not maintain leadership of sg1 in s9 and s10...

in fact, if the writers didnt think she was an interesting character why did they ask AT to join the cast of atlantis... why if they thought sam was so lacking in interest did they invite her back for cameos in s5 of atlantis after scheduling conflicts with sanctuary had AT bow out of being in the show full time... why if they think she is not interesting has she already been green lighted to guest star in stargate universe...

Spoiler:

'Stargate Universe' nabs guest stars

April 15, 2009 Four veterans of the "Stagate" franchise, Richard Dean Anderson, Amanda Tapping, Michael Shanks and Gary Jones, will reprise their roles in guest stints. Anderson plays General O'Neil, the former leader of the elite military team SG-1. Tapping plays Samantha Carter, an astrophysicist and U.S. Air Force lieutenant colonel.

and writers opinions aside, if she is not an interesting character why is sam so popular... why has AT received so many awards for her portrayal of sam... why is it there are people who didnt watch atlantis until s4...

just because you didnt like the character doesnt mean that she wasnt interesting, doesnt mean that she didnt have what it takes to lead the team or the show...

I know she is popular (i dont mind her as a character) but the problem is that she isnt a overally interesting character. Think back to SG1 and think of the Sam episodes, for the most part all the Sam centric episodes are well below par. It is due to the fact that she isnt a character who is that interesting and as a result episodes where she is the main charcater tend to be dull.

[Descent]

i thought the show was warped to make her fit into it. they changed 'the show', instead of writing vala in a believable way. to me that is.

The character itself didn't work very well as a regular. It seemed the character was warped to make it so she could fit in. Making her part of the team/"family" just felt... wrong... I dunno...

[katjoy]

The thing is, seasons usually start BIG. Whether that's a changeable formula or not is up for debate, but IMHO it should start big in order to wow the first-time viewers so that they'd stick around. What you described doesn't sound very big. Character episodes are nice, but even those have some kind of action stuff happening, some kind of problem to solve.

All I'm assuming for the beginning of the season is that the Ori are introduced somehow, and so is Mitchell (but not as the leader of the team). Since I like Vala, her inclusion would be nice too. I believe it can be done, but it takes a little thought. TPTB definitely picked the easier option. If Sam doesn't willingly leave the team like in the show, then something else needs to happen so that she is unavailable when the episodes happen; and since most episodes revolve around a problem that requires Sam's expertise, she'd better be VERY unavailable, or else it would just make no sense. I.e. you can't just accept that she'd rather hang out with Cassie then save the world, or the SGC, or even a person's life. She'd be there in the thick of it, logically.

This makes her different from Daniel. He can afford to spend time at Camelot and research while the rest of the team faces a hostile takeover of the base by an ex-System Lord, or a ravaging monster on the loose in a forest, but Sam can't; she is essential during those scenerios. In fact, she's usually essential everywhere since she's a damn good warrior and a damn good scientist.

But, I'm always up for a good creative challenge. How's this (spoilered for length):

Spoiler:

Avalon Part 1: Major Cameron Mitchell, big fan of SG1, ace pilot who saved SG1's ass over Antarctica, finally gets out of hospital and wants a job at the SGC. He wants to be part of SG1, since they still have only a 3-person team. Landry, the new General, agrees to give him a try after reviewing his record, but will only give him the title of 2nd in command of SG1 after he's been with the team for a bit. We find out that Teal'c is visiting Dakara, Danny is gonna go to Atlantis for a bit in a few hours, and Sam is offworld leading another team, looking at a cool Ancient device or whatever. Cam decides to visit them to see if he's up to the challenge of joining them. Kind of like what happened in the show, except that he also visits Sam on her planet. It's a short walk and talk between the two (i.e. a cameo). Sam has confidence that Cam will do just fine. One of Sam's scientists manages to figure out how to turn on the Ancient device, and Sam goes to work, telling Cam that she'll be busy now and that it's best if he gets back to the SGC. Cam follows her orders.

As soon as Cam returns, Vala arrives. She shows everyone the tablet, gets Danny to wear that bracelet, and all that stuff happens. Meanwhile, Landry decides to check up on Sam since she's missed her deadline. Apparently, the Ancient device (read: plot device) has damaged the Stargate on her end and she can't dial out; still, she's relatively safe so it's not a big deal; she'll just figure it out somehow (cameo #2).

With Sam out of the picture, the rest of the episode happens as is.

Avalon Part 2: Add in a checkup on Sam, saying she's still working on the Stargate, and have her worry about Danny and Vala, and everything can be the same. 1 more cameo.

Origin: Here's where things get interesting. The first Prior to come to the Milky Way conveniently comes to the planet where Sam is. Sam is intrigued (cameo #4). On Danny's side, everything happens as is, until towards the end. A little twisting of the plot is necessary.

As the Prior talk Ori with the locals, Sam and her team watch on (cameo #5), and soon decides to interject once they realize that he's capitalizing on the Goa'uld power vacuum. Sam and her team confront the Prior; after a few well-chose words, the Prior seems to be silenced. However, he seems to take an interest in Sam's intellegence, and approaches her suspiciously. She and her team raise their weapons, but the Prior throws her team away into the air (ala Beachhead). Sam opens fire, but the Prior stops the bullets. He then vaporizes Sam (or so it seems) - this is much longer than a cameo, and requires stunts. The locals are impressed. The Prior then heads to the Stargate, where with a simple wave of his hands manages to dial out. The Gate makes some weird noises and the Prior seems to just toss something through it, an invisible something.

Ok, what happens, is that the Prior made Sam invisible (somehow) and unconscious, and then enabled the gate to draw massive amounts of power for a brief moment so that he can send Sam back to the Ori galaxy for study. She's captured! On noes!!

Some time later, Landry checks in on Sam again, and finds no one there. Mitchell volunteers to check it out, despite the fact that they know the Stargate there can't dial out. Landry agrees, while also ordering the Prometheus to head there just in case. He sends Mitchell and a team, as in the show. However, he finds that the Stargate is working again (thanks to the Prior), he tells Landry this and then heads for the village. He finds the Prior there, preaching, and he tells Mitchell that he and he alone knows what happened to Sam Carter and her team, that he was helpless to aid them (a lie, obviously), but can tell Mitchell and his team what happened in exchange for a trip to Earth. Mitchell agrees, after a little convincing, and leads the Prior back to Earth.

The Prior is interrogated (nicely) for the whereabouts of Sam and her team. Danny wakes up, tells them of the Ori, and goes back to sleep again. Mitchell puts two and two together, and realizes that it must've been the Prior that attacked Sam, and demands to know what happened. The Prior tells them all that Sam has very valuable info (i.e. the most up-to-date info on Earth's defenses), before he bursts into flames. The team mulls over the arrival of the Ori, and promises to get Sam back at all costs, as it's evident from the Prior's words that Sam must still be alive in order for them to get info from her.

The next 2 episodes will be decidedly less fun as a result. They go back to the planet Sam was at and analyse the DHD; they find out that someone dialed an 8-symbol adress; again, putting 2 and 2 together, they realize that Sam is in the Ori galaxy. It's rescue mission time!

Ok, let's say that they don't destroy the communications terminal thing. Well, the rescue mission can involve Daniel and Vala going in again (this time as different people), and be "on the inside", while Cam and Teal'c lead a team through the Stargate (they have the address from the DHD on the world Sam was on, and they can use a Mark II generator for power) to go to the Ori galaxy to rescue Sam (who is of course absent for both the 4th and 5th episodes). Wow, this is exciting. I'm good.

Anyways, they rescue Sam, she appears again at the end of the 5th episode (cameo #6), alive and well (or not; depending on how the story goes). The only problem is that this is not very original; it's basically a retread of Children of the Gods and Rising in that it's another search and rescue mission.

If Sam isn't harmed much, then by episode 6, she can go back to commanding SG1, with Mitchell as 2nd in command, and with Daniel and Teal'c on the team as usual. Vala will tag along for as long as the braceletss effects are still there. Beachhead happens, and the rest of the season happens as is, unless something can be spun off my little creative spiel up above there.

Phew, that's a lot of writing. Whatever you think of it, one thing is clear: Sam is still in a lot of scenes. I tried to get her screentime down as much as I can; she has small scenes (with some being cameos) throughout the first 3 episodes, she's not in the 4th one, and she's only at the end of the 5th one, I guess. Even that may be too little, as I would want to see her ordeal during episodes 4 (at least one look at what the Ori were doing to her) and 5.

So yeah, after all that, AT'S still got a lot of work to do once she gets back from maternity leave. Considering that she's only in 1 cameo throughout the show's first 5 episodes, I don't think mine actually works; it'll be too much.

It just shows you how hard it is, I guess (or that I'm not good enough at this.)

my intention was to show with a brief overview how it could be done differently... it was never my intention to show how all the eps would work, so i was just coming up with some ideas on the spot... and also why i didnt say what sams cameos would be used for, but they could have included helping the sgc solve a problem... i simply wanted people to think about how a slight tweak on events could allow sam to stay in command...

so i think its great that it has sparked an idea in you to expand and show how the eps would then work... and i read your episode briefs and thought that you came up with a plausible set of circumstances...

while i just wanted to put the idea out there that it could have been different you have creatively shown how it could have been done...

[PG15]

Well, one way how it can be done, and not really the best way since she's still in there a lot.

It's difficult. Also, I wouldn't want to twist all the plots just to serve one character either; that'd be unfair to other characters and the story. What I wanted to show is that it's not simply "they're writers, they can write anything. Thus, the fact that Cam superceeded Sam must mean they're sexist etc. etc."; there are many more issues that they can't control.

[katjoy]

I know she is popular (i dont mind her as a character) but the problem is that she isnt a overally interesting character. Think back to SG1 and think of the Sam episodes, for the most part all the Sam centric episodes are well below par. It is due to the fact that she isnt a character who is that interesting and as a result episodes where she is the main charcater tend to be dull.

again that is only your opinion... im sure im not the only one who didnt think episodes that centred around sam were dull...

take grace for example... this is a sam based episode and it shows her using her subconscious to get out of a situation... it explores sams inner self, it uses the other characters to explore sides of sam we dont typically see... and for this ep AT won a leo award... you dont win awards for dull, below par episodes...

so you keep saying that sam isnt overly interesting, that the sam based eps tend to be dull... but why isnt she interesting, why are these eps dull...

[Descent]

What I wanted to show is that it's not simply "they're writers, they can write anything. Thus, the fact that Cam superceeded Sam must mean they're sexist etc. etc."; there are many more issues that they can't control.

Thank you for saying that. *sigh*

[katjoy]

Well, one way how it can be done, and not really the best way since she's still in there a lot.

It's difficult. Also, I wouldn't want to twist all the plots just to serve one character either; that'd be unfair to other characters and the story. What I wanted to show is that it's not simply "they're writers, they can write anything. Thus, the fact that Cam superceeded Sam must mean they're sexist etc. etc."; there are many more issues that they can't control.

ok, so there are other issues that are beyond the control of the writers... but those same issues would have been in place had AT been sick and not pregnant... and i know one happened and one didnt, but any of the actors could just as easily get sick and they wouldnt change the story ark over it, they would find a reasonable away to have the character absent for a time...

so new scenario... cam as the future 2ic could have just been going out with daniel, tealc and vala learning the ropes... the team have a predetermined mission, so its not like he is making huge decisions, and his military background can still be utilised... he will be 2ic, so while he may be learning it is not unreasonable that he makes a decision if they get into a sticky situation... however when sam gets back she is still the team leader...

im sure they could have come up with a realistic reason why sam wasnt in the first 5 eps... and while as you said they often deferred to sam and therefore she couldnt just not be there, that is unrealistic... people get sick, they take holidays, or she could have simply been asked to help out somewhere else on something... the cameos could have been used as a way of giving carters insight into the mission, wishing cam good luck on a mission or even helping solve a problem...

EDIT: had rda not left the show AT still would have been pregnant at that time, so they still would have had to come up with a plausable way to write sam out for the same amount of time...

[RealmOfX]

Okay, I will restate, but only because you won't read my response.

What discrimination?

It has been about military accuracy, on the whole much more than other shows do. They fact check things with the Air Force, if I remember correctly.

Now you aren't making any sense. Why would you restate something if you "know" I'm not going to read it?

In a serious effort to stop the discussion with you running in circles, can we please deal with one point at a time? I can fully explain each point of mine if you want however what I won't do is aid your baiting of the thread by deliberately going off on tangents and running in circles.

In my previous post I asked you a question so that I could answer your question but you haven't answered it directly, however seeing as you have now reposted the original post you were questioning then I can assume you at least read it. So that leaves the assumption that you didn't understand the points because the only other option would have been you didn't agree with the points and but then would have mentioned that, wouldn't you? I did previously post on the subject of the excuse of military accuracy in a little more detail here but I can expand on that for you.

Your supposedly compelling argument that Stargate is maintaining their factual depiction of the military by limiting the number and types of roles that women have in the franchise** is neither compelling nor a logically valid argument.

First of all let's look at that word compelling :
compelling –adjective
1. tending to compel; overpowering: compelling reasons.
2. having a powerful and irresistible effect; requiring acute admiration, attention, or respect: a man of compelling integrity; a compelling drama.
There's nothing powerful or irresistible about the reason it is done is due to military accuracy as the show contains many inaccuracies. There's certainly nothing about the argument that requires admiration, attention or respect for continuing to discriminate on a gender basis. But perhaps you were thinking along other lines?

The main point of the Stargate franchise has never been the telling of military accurate stories about the US Air Force, if it was then they'd be making documentaries, but rather it is a fictional story about a non existent Command within the Air Force that goes off world, out into the galaxies to have adventures, fight bad guys and explore. They like to add a touch of authenticity by keeping some things about the military reasonably accurate but they also do not hesitate to throw that accuracy out the window if they think it will benefit the story line.

There have been many military inaccuracies throughout the years of Stargate, just go through either of the shows episode threads and you will see how many, but the most central inaccuracies are all rooted in the base concept of Stargate SG-1, the beginning of the franchise. Stargate Command is a non existent command; the first and most glaring military inaccuracy. If you consider the SG teams to be frontline troops then Stargate SG-1 has established that they were going to ignore the current military discrimination on gender in this role. Teal'c would never have been on the team, on a concept level in real life the military would definitely use a resource like the General (Teal'c) of the enemies forces as intel but would never immediately assign him to the main team fighting those forces.

A more recent glaring military inaccuracy on Stargate would be the treatment of the character Sam Carter in Season 9. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the subject whether it should or shouldn't have happened and if it made "in story" sense, a respected and valued officer would never be treated like that due to the damage to their career path. Officers in the Air Force are expected to go onwards and upwards and when they cease their upward movement through the ranks they are made to leave (oversimplification of the process I know), you go backwards and there is a black mark on your record and you won't be promoted. A key area of promotion criteria is the level of responsibility in your current and previous positions so anyone who went from commanding a small important team like the flagship SGC team to being in command of a large contingent like R&D at Area 51 to an unspecified position back with the small team you used to command would have their career effectively ended. It's a career killer. Added to that situation is that they would never assign two Lt Colonels to a small team of 5, they are way too senior officers for that.

From Day 1 it has been established that Stargate was not based on military accuracy, and they continued to be militarily inaccurate, so it is illogical to use the excuse of "military accuracy" in your argument.



As for your question here, I already answered that in a previous post replying to you.



** I have presented in a concise form what appears to be the main contention of yours based on the posts by you and Spirit but please let me know if this is not accurate.