General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[ShadowMaat]

And if you compare the amount of analysis in the shippy threads to the amount in the Science & Tech threads the shippers can't *possibly* be accused of going too far with analysis

(Not that I have a problem with the amount of analysis in the S&T threads. Like I said, if it's fun, and if it interests you... )

Yeah, it's only fun if they accept you as one of their own. I made an abortive effort to join in the "fun" in the S&T section by posting some of my own thoughts on a subject and was so thoroughly lambasted for my efforts I haven't gone back since.

Speaking of cliques.

Ovar-analysis and fun-having are fine, but when it gets to the point where you attack "outsiders" I think you have to stop and ask yourself if it's really worth it.

[Shep'sSocks]

I think most of us in the Shep/Weir thread are more interested in the combination of the two as leaders..... The interaction, and the fact that they've been forced into relying on each other..
As for taking it into real life --- NOT on Shep/Weir!!
It happens on another thread, from what I've heard, but I've never seen it....
I find it all disturbing, since it relates to the one actor we know who is married with kids -- projecting things onto him is just .... not classy!!

Seriously? That happened? What strange people abound in these pages.

[Jace021903]

The 'overanalysis' in shipper threads is a big mix of interpolation, extrapolation, speculation, flights of fancy, wishful thinking and dot-joining. It probably does seem a bit, er, 'over' to outsiders, but to those in on the ship it's fun, it's a way of discussing something of interest from more angles than the limited number of obvious things, and the benign and chummy atmosphere of the ship threads means that stuff like "JMO" and "This is a flight of fancy" are taken as read.

Mostly, I think this kind of thing is for fun and if that's what someone enjoys about the show, that they should have at it. Every pairing--ship or slash--does that to some extent. For some nonofficial ships, like Daniel/Janet, it's all they get and they do make the most of it.


I'm only bothered by the folks who like others have mentioned, berate other fans for not seeing it their way. And I'm am very amused by folks who claim that those who don't like ship are loveless, pathetic creatures. That would be news to my husband of 15 years.

by SGLAB

And I've heard about fans taking it into RL, with the actors, but so far only second hand telling.

The blurring of the characters and actors is really disturbing to me. When I read things like, "Too bad they're married to other people," or "His real-life kid looks like their on-screen kid," I get twitchy. I think there is a line that people shouldn't cross.

Jace

[FoolishPleasure]

Seriously? That happened? What strange people abound in these pages.

There is a rabid "ship" person who has several sock puppets and tries to make their fav ship seem more popular. Her writing style is fairly obvious so it isn't too difficult to spot her, even when she tries coming in with new sockies. She is rather boring now that the mods won't let her rage against other characters like she used to.

With folks like that ya just have to say, "Move along, nothing to see here."

[ToasterOnFire]

Sigh, that particular story arc will apparently never die...

[skye1974]

Sigh, that particular story arc will apparently never die...

HA!!! Apparently not.

[Easter Lily]

Just wondering what people's overall thoughts about "ship" are... Are you against "ship" as a principle? Or you just against Stargate having "ship"?

[Madeleine]

I'm not against ship in principle. I just don't think I've ever counted a ship as a reason to watch any show, ever; and on rare occasions it's even stopped me watching the show.

The more characters a show has, the more I expect ship, although even when I enjoy a ship I don't actively ship for that couple**. I'm just as entertained by watching the explosive or heart-wrenching break up as by the sweet and touching stuff. For instance, I enjoyed John/Aeryn ship, though I'm sure I'd have enjoyed the J/A utter failure to get shippy, if that's how Farscape had chosen to go, and I was as entertained by their spinning apart as by their coliding togethre over the four years of the show.

I just don't find TV ship at all romantic. Songs are romantic, and some books, but not TV or films, for me. So if Romance is all that the writers are giving to a ship, it leaves me cold. I'm more interested in the herioc, idiotic, petty or fantastic things characters might do as a result of a ship than in the ship itself.

The ships that irritate me are the ones where I can't see chemistry and yet there's no interesting break-up. Ships with no chemistry serve a purpose if the break-up is dramatic. If they just get together and then chug along with no chemistry, it leaves me cold.

My main objections to ship on Stargate was that the only ship that ever seemed to be considered was SJ, which was dull and unconvincing, and which TPTB only seemed to consider in a Soulmates sort of way, not a Lets See How They Get On After The Breakup way. Now that Jack's not around the S/J could be ratified without it taking enough screentime to be dull for me, and S/J's gone on so long that it's reached the point where it would make more sense to canonise it and get it over with than to leave it at "not exactly". Just to neaten things up. Which makes me think my objections must have been from a dramatic PoV, rather than on principle.

So no, i'm not anti-ship on principle. Just (frequently) by inclination.

(** Firefly's Wash/Zoe is the exception. It was just so refeshing to see a TV married couple who were so loyal and so into each other, and whose bickering felt real rather than contrived and whose bickering was very much secondary to how into each other they were. I shipped for them.)

[ShadowMaat]

Just wondering what people's overall thoughts about "ship" are... Are you against "ship" as a principle? Or you just against Stargate having "ship"?

I'm not against in in principle. I ship on other shows. HOWEVER, as far as I'm concerned, TPTB of Stargate are incapable of writing anything remotely decent in terms of developing/ongoing romance. I'd equate it to a blind epileptic performing brain surgery.

[STARGATE7777]

I also believe that TPTB do not do a good job writing ship if only for the idea that it is so " Do we see it, do we not." It's interesting though, from the writers and producers points of view they seem to be pretty clear. I took two quotes from the GW season 4 episode summaries. The first one is from D&C, the second one from Beneath the Surface. Just to show that we shippers haven't dreamed up the whole thing.

"Are the writers and producers dropping the Sam and Jack storyline after Season Four? "No," said Mallozzi. "It's still there. In fact, many argue that we introduced it in 'Divide and Conquer' when, in reality, it was there for a long time before that episode. 'Divide and Conquer' afforded us the opportunity to bring it out in the open -- not only for the fans, but to have Jack and Sam face the reality as well."
"After three seasons (that's like three years in SG-time) things necessarily evolve. ... The Sam and Jack thread is not over. In spite of how many may feel, it did not begin with 'Divide and Conquer.' It was subtle, but there much much earlier. It will continue to be there, subtle perhaps, but still there."

"I think the script lacked an emotional core -- it could have used a Sam/Jack focus. They love one another. It would only make sense for them to be together if they had no recollection of their former lives. The feeling was we had played that particular emotional beat in 'Divide and Conquer,' and there was a concern if we went that way in 'Beneath the Surface,' we would be over playing the angle." (Writer / producer Joseph Mallozzi)

"They love one another. " WOW! From JM's point of view that is pretty clear how he feels about the characters.

[Jace021903]

I am not against ship in principle; it can be an enjoyable part of a show if it is well done. The problem I seem to be having is that so few of the shows out there do it well. But most shows, I can take it or leave it;I rarely invest in it. On a few shows, I actively dislike it.

I also tend to root for the unexpected pairings because I think they are more interesting. I would have liked to see Sam/Teal'c alot more than Sam/Jack.
I adore Zoe/Wash because it is so offbeat yet it works.

I am kind of over the will they/won't they type writing; it gets very tedious and you know the characters won't be getting together until the end if at all so the writers string the audience along as long as possible and make the characters look silly in the process.

I did like John/Aeryn on Farscape, but I didn't really care if they eventually ended up together--the drama and the conflict that their relationship caused was emotionally satisfying enough for me. Plus, talk about chemistry; those two had it.

This one might sound odd, but the last couple that I really cared about getting together was in the movie "The Village." The movie was kind of silly, but I loved the relationship between the blind girl and Joaquin Phoenix's character. I thought the scene where he sat up all night on her porch to protect her was really sweet. Considering what was out there in the night, you had no doubt how he felt about her.

I love subtleties like that in movies rather than hysterics and overblown declarations of passion. There was a movie several years ago with Matt Damon playing a lawyer defending the woman he was secretly in love with from a murder charge. There was a scene where he and the woman were in the police station being questioned and pretending like they were nothing special to each other. Then there was a shot of their legs under the table-- touching. I thought it was the most romantic thing in the entire movie.

So well done romance, yes. Cliche'-ridden formula romance, no thank you.
Of course, my cliche' might be someone else's classic.

Jace

[Melora]

I obviously have no problem with ship in a television show and I have relatively few problems with it in Stargate specifically. For me, it is one of the things that adds another dimension to a show. But if it is a sci-fi or action adventure show, the show should never focus too much on it. I agree that TPTB in Stargate have had difficulty in writing ship over the years. It is not one of their strengths. But another thing I have noticed - the longer any show is on the air, the harder it is for the writers to retain the spark and vivacity of the relationships, especially between characters that are supposed to have romantic feelings for each other.

I also want to second Madeleine – one of my favorite ships was Zoe/Wash in Firefly. Sci-fi shows rarely have characters that are married and Zoe and Wash’s relationship was just so well-written and acted. I was actually hoping that one of the new characters on Stargate this year would be married. After all, it seems somewhat odd that all of the main characters (who are at least in their mid to late thirties) are not married or in committed relationships of any kind (at least that we know of). But I guess that would be too limiting for TPTB – they need to keep their characters single in case they need to have the guest alien of the week fall in love with one of them.


Melora

[Easter Lily]

The more characters a show has, the more I expect ship, although even when I enjoy a ship I don't actively ship for that couple**. I'm just as entertained by watching the explosive or heart-wrenching break up as by the sweet and touching stuff. For instance, I enjoyed John/Aeryn ship, though I'm sure I'd have enjoyed the J/A utter failure to get shippy, if that's how Farscape had chosen to go, and I was as entertained by their spinning apart as by their coliding togethre over the four years of the show.

I found it intriguing that that relationship could have gone either way. There wasn't always that feeling that they were meant to be... *grumbles about only having seen 2 seasons* so I'm surprise and pleased to find out from various things that I've heard on GW that this relationship actually goes the distance in some credible fashion.

I just don't find TV ship at all romantic. Songs are romantic, and some books, but not TV or films, for me. So if Romance is all that the writers are giving to a ship, it leaves me cold. I'm more interested in the herioc, idiotic, petty or fantastic things characters might do as a result of a ship than in the ship itself.

I'm interested in that thought which probably explains why I've always loved Mr Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. Here's a man who is socially awkward, a touch arrogant and outwardly aloof. And yet when he finds love, he is driven to speak up against "his better judgement" and to act on behalf of a woman he doesn't care for because of a woman he does care for.
This also probably explains why I don't care for S/J... because there is no follow through by Jack.

My main objections to ship on Stargate was that the only ship that ever seemed to be considered was SJ, which was dull and unconvincing, and which TPTB only seemed to consider in a Soulmates sort of way, not a Lets See How They Get On After The Breakup way.

But even then that was problematic.. the soulmates thing... Why were they soulmates or destined to be together? I think I could've understood it better if there was some kind of explaination why they should be together rather assuming that they should because of some electrical charge between them.

(** Firefly's Wash/Zoe is the exception. It was just so refeshing to see a TV married couple who were so loyal and so into each other, and whose bickering felt real rather than contrived and whose bickering was very much secondary to how into each other they were. I shipped for them.)

Wash/Zoe is a rather odd pairing that worked well for me because their relationship was an extension of who they are, rather than them being puppets that danced to the music of "ship". It was obviously a case of opposites attract but what keeps them together goes beyond that. I remember reading one of those "marriage books" years ago and they said something which I've found to be true which is that opposites may attract but what keeps them together is the common ground between them. With Wash/Zoe that rings true... which makes their devotion to one another all the more genuine.

[Dani347]

Just wondering what people's overall thoughts about "ship" are... Are you against "ship" as a principle? Or you just against Stargate having "ship"?

No, I'm not against "ship." Mulder/Scully, Crichton/Aeryn shipper right here. I also watch shows where the relationships are almost the entire basis of the show. Grey's Anatomy, anyone? I just don't like ship on Stargate. Maybe if the J/S ship had been tolerable to me (because that's all it could ever be for me) I wouldn't be so against ship on Stargate. But, all it's been for me is bad. Bad, bad, bad. And, in any case, I still wouldn't have wanted it between any two team members.

[Uber]

Just wondering what people's overall thoughts about "ship" are... Are you against "ship" as a principle? Or you just against Stargate having "ship"?

I'm for ship if I see the chemistry between the actors/characters. I have to feel it...and for Jack and Sam, I feel it. I see the vibe...I catch the moments, the prolonged looks, the unspoken beats filled with that extra something...and I'm there.

I look for ship but I don't just glom onto ship for ship's sake. For instance, my shippy radar hasn't picked up on any ship in Atlantis yet. Doesn't mean there isn't potential and I know there are a bunch of people who see Shep/Weir or Shep/Teyla or McKay/Weir or whatever...I just personally haven't felt that zing that tells me there's something going on underneath the surface.

For me, that extra tension added something to the SG-1's dynamic and the character dynamics for Jack and Sam because there was that extra layer of emotional depth that was festering under the surface and couldn't be touched onscreen while they were both on there full time.

For SGA, I get a lot of friendshippy vibes but nothing romantic...yet.

As for Farscape, I was a big John/Aeryn shipper but what irked me was the fabricated reasons for their barriers...changing their minds etc...stuff that frankly reminded me of Moonlighting. And too much of that can be tedious. At least with SG-1 the barriers were clear...regulations prohibited them from exploring anything while in the same chain of command...so they put duty and honor above personal gratification, which for me further added depth to their characters but even that can get tedious when it goes on too long and no real definitive resolution is shown onscreen.

But then, the series hasn't ended so I still have hope...