General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[Easter Lily]

I was deluded into believing that Sam liked Pete until Threads, when like you, I suddenly realised that he was just a plot device... and a very clumsily executed one at that. I liked bits of Threads (Daniel/Oma, Sam/Jacob) but the whole romance angle lacked finesse...

[Shep'sSocks]

I was deluded into believing that Sam liked Pete until Threads, when like you, I suddenly realised that he was just a plot device... and a very clumsily executed one at that. I liked bits of Threads (Daniel/Oma, Sam/Jacob) but the whole romance angle lacked finesse...

I worked that out as soon as the poor fellow turned up. Didn't you see the neon sign flashing above his head?

[SGLAB]

TPTB tend to write poorly conceived plot devices anyway. To get a character from point A to point B they do a lot of twisting and turning only to have the character or story looking far worse by the end.

[Jonisa]

One thing I loved about B5 that I had not seen previously in any scifi show or since is the use of flashforwards... That moment of prescience where the audience is allowed a glimpse of the future... that was pretty nifty, I thought. It wasn't always what one thought it was either.

B5 is the one well-regarded SciFi show that I haven't seen. It's on my to-do list. I feel like I'm missing out.

[Shep'sSocks]

TPTB tend to write poorly conceived plot devices anyway. To get a character from point A to point B they do a lot of twisting and turning only to have the character or story looking far worse by the end.

It's the rare actor who can transcend that and most of the SG-1 people can't transcend bad scripts. The SGA actors do a better job (Hewlett and Flanigan, in particular, can transcend anything) but then, the scripts tend to be better.

[Shep'sSocks]

B5 is the one well-regarded SciFi show that I haven't seen. It's on my to-do list. I feel like I'm missing out.

Best show ever. I wept during the last episode.

[Melora]

Thanks for the welcome, Easter Lily. I don’t have a lot of free time to spend online, but I always enjoy a good debate with intelligent and rational people like those on this thread. I am very glad we have a place like GW where people of differing opinions can congregate peacefully and discuss our differences rationally (well, at least most of the time).


Why are there hundreds of different Protestant churches in the world today?

The answer is because in the Protestant religion, individuals are encouraged to read the Bible for themselves and come to their own conclusions about what it says and what it means. Thus, there are millions of different interpretations about what the Bible actually says and means. People who interpreted the Bible in similar ways gravitated towards each other and formed their own churches.

The same can be said of ship (although not nearly as important or profound as the history of the Protestant religion). I am a shipper. I saw the chemistry (not necessarily romantic) between Sam and Jack from the very beginning (Yes – even in Season 1) – and I saw it as being mutual. I saw the chemistry develop over Seasons 2 and 3 into something more and I saw real feelings between the two characters come to the forefront in Season 4.

I can understand that others did not. For every person that watches a show, there is a different interpretation of that very same show. Who’s right? We all are from our own point of view. I know I will never change the opinion of a non-shipper or anti-shipper. I don’t even want to try because everyone should have the right to their own opinion. Having said that, non-shippers and anti-shippers are unlikely to change my opinion either (or that of any other shipper for that matter).

I agree that TPTB did not write the ship well in Seasons 7 and 8. I agree that Pete was a mistake, not because I didn’t like his character or the actor (I thought DDL did a very good job with what he was given). The character was a mistake because he was a plot device in a story arc that had very little to do with sci-fi or action/adventure. But at least he somewhat (albeit, poorly) fit into a story arc that started with “Grace.” This is why I can accept his character and his presence in “Chimera.”

IMO, TPTB should not have brought him back in Season 8. They should not have focused so much on Sam’s love life. I believe it was a mistake that ended up annoying both shippers and anti-shippers alike. I would have preferred story arcs dealing with missions and science and saving the universe. But, let’s face it – romance is cheaper to produce than space battles and going to other planets. It is also much harder to write well. The ship arc also allowed the actors to play something a little different than they had in the past seasons - although they weren't given much to work with most of the time.

I think TPTB have realized their mistake with the ship and have done a complete 180 and have dropped the ship completely. IMHO, this is just another mistake to add to the list. Ignoring the ship after they built it up (albeit, poorly) in Seasons 7 and 8, is just another example of their inability to see things through. Right now, I would just like TPTB to give the shippers a definitive answer on the show about Jack and Sam and then move on with the new stories they want to pursue. Do I think they will do this? Not a chance. It just too much fun to string the shippers along for another couple of seasons, even though one half of the couple is probably gone for good.

BTW - I personally don’t care whether they are together or not at this point. I would be just as happy to find out that Sam has moved on and Jack and Thor are living happily ever after in the Ida Galaxy. I would just like to know one way or the other, because I personally like stories (and story arcs) to have endings. But that’s just my personal taste. Whatever happened to Daniel's grandfather and the Giant Aliens? Another dropped story arc that annoys the heck out of me.

Hmm - The fact that neither Jack nor Thor have been on the show recently is just a coincidence, isn't it?

Melora (who apologizes once again for being long-winded)

[STARGATE7777]

Just an observation that I have made. I am always surprised that so many new posters on GW are pro Sam and Jack. I have an aversion to the word shippers.

Until I came across this forum, seven years after I started watching the show, I had no idea that anyone didn't see the relationship between Jack and Sam. To me it was obvious. Obviously not to others. Anyways, I just think that there are many who just take it for granted as part of the show, and others who are aware of the controversy and don't want to argue.

To those of us who so see it I guess we'll never understand how it can potentially ruin the show for some. I never liked the Jaffa storylines but I didn't lose sleep over it, or think people deranged for liking it. It was just a part that I didn't care for but accepted.

Hey, in the end ,the non Sam and Jack shippers have got their way but I think for many people they would take the old team back and return to a time where the biggest complaint over Stargate was whether Jack really cared for Sam.

[Easter Lily]

B5 is the one well-regarded SciFi show that I haven't seen. It's on my to-do list. I feel like I'm missing out.

It's the show that got me back into scifi... I was fortunate that I had a friend who is a huge fan... and has the entire series . The same friend is also buying all the scripts. If you like continuity you'd really like the show. JMS really knows how to write mythos as if it's a pulsating being... everyone else just gives it lip service.

[LoneStar1836]

I worked that out as soon as the poor fellow [Pete] turned up. Didn't you see the neon sign flashing above his head?

I most certainly did. I felt sorry for the poor character because I knew exactly why he was introduced and how the relationship would end. Pete’s dismissal in “Threads” was probably on the drawing boards before the character was even introduced to us. Oh well. I like to console myself with the thought that Pete is better off in the fictional little world of Stargate without Carter. Three’s a crowd in a marriage.

Btw, I'm not a fan of ship on Stargate. Especially S/J. It didn’t do any favors for Carter in my eyes. Not that I ever disliked the character. Granted Sam was never my favorite, but I always viewed her as integral to the show, and I always enjoyed the relationship she had with her father. (Course if you’ve seen S8, then you know how that ended, and imo, it ended that way for a reason. ) The whatever that was with Jack however had no place in the story and detracted from her character in S7 and S8, imo. I was looking forward to S8 to see Carter in the leadership role of SG-1 and well.…let’s just say I’m still waiting….

As far as tptb resolving the mess that they started, they might as well just get it over with and give the shippers a decent and definitive resolution rather than cruelly stringing them along with “not exactly”. Though in my opinion, the ending of “Threads” was a nice little resolution if you ask me. That should have been the end of it, especially since RDA was not coming back. I don’t think the ship needed anymore validation than what was offered up in “Threads”. It left it up to your interpretation and imagination and was something I could live with. Leave the rest to fanfic. I mean seriously, do we really need an episode where they are picking out wedding China?

[Easter Lily]

I worked that out as soon as the poor fellow turned up. Didn't you see the neon sign flashing above his head?

Not really... I blame Channel 7 for that... But I had heard all kinds awful things about the character so that when I finally caught Chimera on DVD I was just relieved that he wasn't quite as bad as I had imagined after hearing various comments. That was when I realised that fandom is not always a reliable guide to what's good and what's bad on Stargate.
I admit I was gullible in those days... I actually believed that TPTB was trying to do something decent with Carter's love life... This was before I discovered GW and the duplicitousness of the S/J ship.

[Jace021903]

Everyone has made such good points in this thread. So here's my two cents...YMMV.

I have been watching my DVD's lately to get my Stargate fix while the show is on break. I have been reminded again of just how much I enjoyed Sam--even in so-called shippy episodes. She really is a great character.

Part of the problem I have with the way the shippy stuff was written starting in season 7 is how I felt it reflected on Sam. I started to get really nervous when the first TV Guide article came out when season 7 was announced. They were talking about various storylines on the show and all they had to say about Sam was something about her getting to know her boss better--wink. I got a horrible sinking feeling.

For parts of seasons 7 and 8, I was cringing at some of the things the writers had this professional woman say and do. In trying to bring out more of her personality "as a woman," the writers succeeded in making her a one-note character. Her feelings were shown to get in the way of her doing her job. Compassion for others, which is something I love about Sam, got sort of lost in the effort to show the feelings for Jack yet again.

And it didn't help that for whatever reason, I was just not convinced that Jack was in any way invested in having a relationship with Sam. He mostly looked bored or indifferent--all open to interpretation of course, but that's what I saw. So we have this smart woman hung up on a guy that couldn't be bothered. If they were that important to each other, then someone would have made a move somehow to make it happen. I was never convinced that this was some grand love story.

What I liked about Pete was that he adored Sam. They definately made mistakes with the character; a character who was already set up to be disliked, but I loved the chemistry between the actors; it was fun and Sam looked happy--nice change of pace. Of course, he was a plot device from day one, so it was impossible to be invested in him. Poor guy.

Now, I'd like to see Sam move on and be about other things--not romantic things. There are lots of things about Sam to explore.



Jace

[Dani347]

What I liked about Pete was that he adored Sam. They definately made mistakes with the character; a character who was already set up to be disliked, but I loved the chemistry between the actors; it was fun and Sam looked happy--nice change of pace. Of course, he was a plot device from day one, so it was impossible to be invested in him. Poor guy.


Jace

I felt the same way about Pete. What was worse was, even though I knew he was a plot deice, to make it convincing , they had to make it seem like Sam really liked him and was serious about him. They had to drag it on and on, and then, make Sam look really bad -to me, anyway. If they had to do it, it would have been better to just use him like Kerry. Pop him in for one episode, have him tell her (and the audience) that Sam luvs Jack and bow out before anyone got to know anything about him.

I have to wonder why they felt it was necessary to bring in third parties. It didn't help the storyline. I liked Pete, but he really didn't fit anywhere in the Stargate universe. Again, they could have used Barrett better for that. And, Kerry fit in better, but since she only existed for one episode, big deal. Were they created so people in the back row, like me, would finally understand that yes, yes, yes! Jack loves Sam and vice versa! Look, Sam called off her engagement! And, look! Kerry Plot Device broke up with Jack and he didn't stop her. It's love. Don't you see the thought bubble over his head with a picture of Sam in a wedding dress? Case closed, everyone believes it now. Except, no.

[FireCat]

I didn't have much of a problem with Pete and Sam. Fans always want something different and the writers experimented with something new and it didn't go over. It definitely got people stirred up, which I think was the whole point.

As for ship in general, I don't care much for it other then a tad here or there. After lurking in some of the ship threads here, it seems people are seeing grand love in every single glance or movement and it is just plain silly. People work together, talk, smile, laugh, even touch each other all the time and it doesn't mean they have the hots for each other.

Can't quite figure how someone can see Sheppard hand something to Teyla and, "OMG, did you see that! He LOOKED at her so lovingly!", or Weir smiles at Sheppard and, "They are SO doing it!" I don't remember S/J being that bad.

[SGLAB]

I didn't have much of a problem with Pete and Sam. Fans always want something different and the writers experimented with something new and it didn't go over. It definitely got people stirred up, which I think was the whole point.

As for ship in general, I don't care much for it other then a tad here or there. After lurking in some of the ship threads here, it seems people are seeing grand love in every single glance or movement and it is just plain silly. People work together, talk, smile, laugh, even touch each other all the time and it doesn't mean they have the hots for each other.

Can't quite figure how someone can see Sheppard hand something to Teyla and, "OMG, did you see that! He LOOKED at her so lovingly!", or Weir smiles at Sheppard and, "They are SO doing it!" I don't remember S/J being that bad.

I'll admit to liking Shep and Weir as a possible ship pair. Speaking for myself though the "They are SO doing it!" Is not something I think seriously and I doubt many shippers of that pair seriously think that.

I personally see an interesting friendship which I think has the potential for something more. So those moments you speak of are just projecting to me. Being silly. But I also like talking about them in the relationship they have now and why I think they could work as a couple eventually. Although I really don't care if there is any cannon ship between them. Done well, I wouldn't mind, but I have my doubts about it being done well.