Gate Alliance Treaty Organization (GATO)

[Major Tyler]

Most intriging to read, but aren't the worlds differences (sadly) something you forgot? I can't possibly see hardline elements of some countries (you know which coutries i mean) cooperate. Not with the US, EU and the rest of the world because of ideological beliefs.

I'm sure the threat of invasion from space aliens would be encouragement enough to bring people together in their own defense. Remember, GATO doesn't require every nation of the world to be the same, it coordinates and strengthens our collective defense, not our politics.

Besides that, if it worked only the rich western nations would really be adding something to GATO. What could countries as Oeganda possibly offer other then footsoldiers with outdated equipment? Please let me hear your thoughts on this.

Well, since "Oeganda" doesn't exist, they probably don't have much to offer, anyway. Assuming you mean a country like Uganda, sure, they cannot offer as much as Germany, but then you could also say that The Netherlands cannot offer as much as the UK. Does that mean the UK is more deserving of being in the alliance than The Netherlands? I would say no.

Saying that "all Uganda could offer is footsoldiers" is more than a little condescending. I've met Ugandans, believe it or not, and they were very intelligent (we went to school together). Maybe a Ugandan scientist develops a weapon that can penetrate an enemies shield, or comes up with a new way of synthesizing food, or any number of contributions.

[DarthNick]

Easier said then done, in the heat of the moment things could go well, and i stress could. But in the time between major events old grugdes/feelings whatever will reappear.

Sorry for the spelling error, Oeganda is the Dutch spelling of the word, my bad. What i meant to say was, in financial terms speaking the richer western countries would suffer the most in a full scale all out war. Whether we like it or not, a F302, BC304 etc has to be paid for. After the second WW Britain, The Netherlands and almost every country that was on the front lines was broke. The lend-lease program helped overcome that problem, but if the whole world is at war against an alien foe, no country can back the money needed.

Today the US has a mega huge national debt, so i don't see them coming up with the money.

Countries like Uganda can't come up with the money either, that's what i meant. Nothing against the people of the respective countries, for all i know they will indeed figure out how to overcome the bed-pan ships shield by throuwing a spear at it (just kidding).

[Major Tyler]

Easier said then done, in the heat of the moment things could go well, and i stress could. But in the time between major events old grugdes/feelings whatever will reappear.

I'm not sayign that there won't be conflict, but the fact is, every alliance has conflict, including NATO. The primary difference is that alliance members are not warring with each other because it diminishes the whole. I think the same would hold true for a world under constant alien threat.

Sorry for the spelling error, Oeganda is the Dutch spelling of the word, my bad.

Ik ken dat. Ik spreek een klein beetje de Nederlands.

What i meant to say was, in financial terms speaking the richer western countries would suffer the most in a full scale all out war. Whether we like it or not, a F302, BC304 etc has to be paid for. After the second WW Britain, The Netherlands and almost every country that was on the front lines was broke. The lend-lease program helped overcome that problem, but if the whole world is at war against an alien foe, no country can back the money needed.

Today the US has a mega huge national debt, so i don't see them coming up with the money.

I think you're assuming the economics of the Stargate Universe would be the same as our own. That's simply not true. Having cheap sources of energy (like naquadah generators) alone would dramatically change the economic reality of the United States and the entire world once they go mainstream.

Countries like Uganda can't come up with the money either, that's what i meant. Nothing against the people of the respective countries, for all i know they will indeed figure out how to overcome the bed-pan ships shield by throuwing a spear at it (just kidding).

I know you think this is funny, and I'm sure you don't mean harm, but what you say here is extremely offensive. You're reducing the entire Ugandan population to spear-throwing savages, but all you truely accomplish is to reveal your own profound ignorance.

[DarthNick]

Before we go into a debate what a PC joke is i would like to say that there is such a thing as overreacting. Watch Indepence day, they even show a picture of a crashed city killer with Africans in there native clothes and spears. But to all those who i might have offended, i apologize.

You mention the point of the Naquadah generators, in the SG universe, who has does generators? Given the fact that they can very easily be modified to a bomb i think the US will be very relucted to give them to certain nations. Of course this is just an example so i could be wrong but i strongly belief that i have a very strong case here.

Another example that kind of reflects on what where discussing here it the joining of Turkey in the EU. Most (if not all) countries in the EU just don't what them to join because it would weaken the overall EU position, political as economic. There are other factors involved but going into detail here would be way off-topic

[Major Tyler]

Before we go into a debate what a PC joke is i would like to say that there is such a thing as overreacting. Watch Indepence day, they even show a picture of a crashed city killer with Africans in there native clothes and spears. But to all those who i might have offended, i apologize.

Well, if was on Independence Day than it must be okay.

You mention the point of the Naquadah generators, in the SG universe, who has does generators? Given the fact that they can very easily be modified to a bomb i think the US will be very relucted to give them to certain nations. Of course this is just an example so i could be wrong but i strongly belief that i have a very strong case here.

Well, we know from canon that the U.S. and Russia have the tech, and we can assume from SGA that at least the Canadians and Czechs have it too (if not all NATO allied countries).

Another example that kind of reflects on what where discussing here it the joining of Turkey in the EU. Most (if not all) countries in the EU just don't what them to join because it would weaken the overall EU position, political as economic. There are other factors involved but going into detail here would be way off-topic

NATO (and by extention, GATO) is not an economic or political union, it's a military alliance.

[DarthNick]

Well, we know from canon that the U.S. and Russia have the tech, and we can assume from SGA that at least the Canadians and Czechs have it too (if not all NATO allied countries).

My point exactly, non of the other nations. The naquada tech is available in the SG universe for 6/7 years now? Why not share it? I think the fear of it being used against them.

[Major Tyler]

My point exactly, non of the other nations. The naquada tech is available in the SG universe for 6/7 years now? Why not share it? I think the fear of it being used against them.

How do you know they don't share it? I think you're just assuming things without substantiation.

[DarthNick]

Well based on the fact that in 10 years of SG-1 en 3 of SGA they never pointed it out. I consider that pretty straight forward evidence. Don't get me wrong, the GATO idea is solid.

You already said not every country needs to be a part of it, i'm just pointing out that the SG universe isn't perfect either and that letting vital technologie fall into the wrongs hands could mean even bigger trouble if we would only pay attention to what's going on out there instead of looking to internal problems as well.

[Lilith]

first off, the naquada generator tech isn't exactly public, very little is... yes, the nations of the IOA know about the Stargate, and subsequently are in the know about all the tech the SG teams recover, but from what we've seen, tech that isn't made public is rarely taken outside the SGC and Area 51.... tech that has been shared with our allies, is all mostly defensive military tech.... thus far, we haven't even seen naquada generators being used outside of the SGC on Earth with the exception of the Trust, and even then, they are used in emergency, lockdown situations only.... it is my speculation that the majority of the naquada generators are sent to Atlantis to help power the city in the absense of ZPMs... it is also my understanding that scematics involving aero-science, ie X-302s, shielding, and medicine are freely shared....

the only reason why the IOA isn't functioning to the best of its ability is that it is top-heavy with politics.... even Dr. Weir find working with them a hardship, and she is a political scientist and diplomat.... GATO would, hopefully, run smoother b/c it is being run by more tactical angle than the political IOA....

[Garth Claw]

besides we know that Rodney was sent to Russia (48 hours), to install naq. generators for them, so presumibly they have some in operations (there just on military bases).

Even with military personnel running the show they would still have to answer to a cilivan power, therefore allowing for political officers to find a place.
Also people are people posturing, egos, empire building will still play a part unless who ever at the top is willing to summary dismiss people who get in the way.

[Major Tyler]

Well based on the fact that in 10 years of SG-1 en 3 of SGA they never pointed it out.

Well, they don't point out every time one of them uses the toilet, but we can be reasonably sure that it happens.

[captain jake]

Hahahahaha

[Opener]

MT, I've spent the last while reading the thread, and I'm solidly behind the idea of GATO. I mean, I do have reservations about its implementation, but the general idea is sound. Let me see if I can address the problem that is evident to me.

ZPMs. It may be possible that in the near future, we could figure out a way to limit their power output in such a way that they couldn't be used as bombs. This may involve a chemical inhibitor, similar(though opposite) to the activator in the ZPM Camulus brought us. Where his would have increased the destructive power, ours would prevent the device from achieving containment failure. If we can figure a way to guarantee this process, we may have a solution for the energy problems in countries controlled by people hostile to us.

We will undoubtedly have to restrict knowledge concerning certain things about the gate. For example, think about the civilization in Entity. Doubtless there would be extremists that would consider such a people an abomination, against the natural order of God/Allah/whatever. No matter how f-ed up we might think they'd be, these people could in fact look for a way to delete the civilization from existence, so we would need a guardian force, above such influences. And that's the beauty of GATO, it could use people from all different backgrounds; these people, cumulatively, would be above such stupid ideologies, and would be much better suited to making sure the gate is used the way it should be: for knowledge and defense.

Never mind that GATO could also help any extremists that had the desire to do their own thing on their own world to find such a place. The GATO organization could even support itself from such ventures.

[Garth Claw]

Given that we now have the asgard database it should be used as a combined Rosetta stone - Manhattan project - Moon race, to rally the human race's best and brightest. Given the information in should allow us to establish a single government, hand over sovereignty enter the new currency get the advantages, stay out and watch your people emigrate to those countries involved as the lifestyle dramatically improves. (nano tech. to cure aids etc, new power plants, communication systems the possibility are endless).

Besides military cooperation on any level needs political cooperation, so why not just do both at the same time. Get the medicine down in one.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Given that we now have the asgard database it should be used as a combined Rosetta stone - Manhattan project - Moon race, to rally the human race's best and brightest. Given the information in should allow us to establish a single government, hand over sovereignty enter the new currency get the advantages, stay out and watch your people emigrate to those countries involved as the lifestyle dramatically improves. (nano tech. to cure aids etc, new power plants, communication systems the possibility are endless).

Besides military cooperation on any level needs political cooperation, so why not just do both at the same time. Get the medicine down in one.

I think the purpose of GATO, essentially NATO, would be to provide international cooperation, not the international abolishment of distinct sovereign nations. It's a mediator, as has been established, between nations, and a unifier of political, scientific, economic, and military interests, not governments.