Most powerful ship

[lordofseas]

Wait, are we talking about the most powerful Class of ships, or the most powerful single ship?

[thekillman]

Most powerful ship

so i think individual.

most powerfull class.... i think Ori Warships.

[Buba uognarf]

oh yes, the oddy owned two in Unending, and sustained fire from 4 for minutes.

i think the Oddy is still by far the most powerfull due to the ACC, TDF, ZPM, APC, and all other finest asgard technology

Yet it would get thoroughly owned by Atlantis and the Superhive.

TDF is useless in combat, so is the ACC and we've seen that regular Hives can easily hit 304's when they're moving so the Superhive with its superior sensors could easily hit the Odssesy. Combine that to the fact that sustaining minutes of Ori bombardment is nothing to days of Wraith fire and its clear that the Superhive could seriously own the Odyssesy.

We don't know how effective drones would be on Asgard shields but judging by how much damage they do to everything else and based on Atlantis' shield power it shouldn't be hard for Atlantis to crush the Odyssesy.

[Saquist]

Well in that last episode Atlantis' shield seemed weak. Where at 1/3 power Atlantis could with stand days of bombardment the Superhive knocked them down in Volley's...
Is that consistent. It implies that the power of one ZPM trumps the power of Atlantis fully loaded with 3 ZPM's

[thekillman]

Yet it would get thoroughly owned by Atlantis and the Superhive.

TDF is useless in combat, so is the ACC and we've seen that regular Hives can easily hit 304's when they're moving so the Superhive with its superior sensors could easily hit the Odssesy. Combine that to the fact that sustaining minutes of Ori bombardment is nothing to days of Wraith fire and its clear that the Superhive could seriously own the Odyssesy.

We don't know how effective drones would be on Asgard shields but judging by how much damage they do to everything else and based on Atlantis' shield power it shouldn't be hard for Atlantis to crush the Odyssesy.

*rolleyes*

why had i expected this?

if the Superhive owns every ship in the known universe, then what? its just a warship and nothing else. Atlantis is a city with engines and a shield. and not even airtight. if the enemy actually WON, what happens? the Superhive fails to save its people, then what? a few thousand wraith on a spaceship. if it even survives.

atlantis too. few thousand people. not even effective in space and when taking off.


Oddy could flee the battle and rebuild a city in months. in a decade, the population would be on the same level as they had been before. infact, Oddy could beam up a few thousand people and store it in a buffer. if it can contain the entire asgard's legacy, and still be fast, then it surely can carry a few thousand people aswell in a buffer.

also:

Atlantis. platform-platform beaming
Superhive: no beaming.
oddy: point to point beaming.

the TDF saved the oddy in unending. also, ori weapons can deplete 304 shields in 3 shots. the wraith require minutes of sustained bombardment.

its clear that you're anti asgard and even clearer than in this respect, you're narrow minded. war war war. what about a non-war situation? save people from a death 100 m underground. what's the superhive gonna do. whats atlantis gonna do? oddy beams em out.

[thekillman]

Well in that last episode Atlantis' shield seemed weak. Where at 1/3 power Atlantis could with stand days of bombardment the Superhive knocked them down in Volley's...
Is that consistent. It implies that the power of one ZPM trumps the power of Atlantis fully loaded with 3 ZPM's

it reveals 1 thing: atlantis sucks in space. also, we dont know the power left after the wormhole jump, and the mentioning of the atmosphere draining Atlantis' shields was worth mentioning, so it was significant. also, it was nearly floating on earth;s atmosphere, the engines required a ton of juice to keep it flying (the superhive's bolts knocked atlantis back) and it had to fire drones.


none of these problems apply to the odyssey.

[Buba uognarf]

*rolleyes*

why had i expected this?

if the Superhive owns every ship in the known universe, then what? its just a warship and nothing else. Atlantis is a city with engines and a shield. and not even airtight. if the enemy actually WON, what happens? the Superhive fails to save its people, then what? a few thousand wraith on a spaceship. if it even survives.

Well its pretty obvious if I read you putting the Asgard over the Ancients I'm going jump in.

MOST POWERFUL SHIP! Refers to abilities in battle therefore both Atlantis and the Superhive are more powerful, is the Odyssesy more useful? debatable but irrelevent in the context of this thread.

atlantis too. few thousand people. not even effective in space and when taking off.

It could still cream the Odyssesy in a fight.

Oddy could flee the battle and rebuild a city in months. in a decade, the population would be on the same level as they had been before. infact, Oddy could beam up a few thousand people and store it in a buffer. if it can contain the entire asgard's legacy, and still be fast, then it surely can carry a few thousand people aswell in a buffer.

Can people be stored in Asgard buffers? Has this ever been shown? None of that relates to power, the most powerful ship is the ship which is best in combat.

also:

Atlantis. platform-platform beaming
Superhive: no beaming.
oddy: point to point beaming.

the TDF saved the oddy in unending. also, ori weapons can deplete 304 shields in 3 shots. the wraith require minutes of sustained bombardment.

Indeed Wraith weapons are significantly weaker than Ori weapons but they're not going to be thousands of times weaker. Simple maths will show Atlantis superiority...

Say Ori weapons are 100x stronger than Wraith weapons and the Odyssesy withstood 200 hits in AOT thats 20,000 Wraith shots yes?

Say Atlantis was hit by 10 shots a second by the Wraith in Siege (a low end) and Atlantis would last 3 days under that fire that yields...

2,592,000.

So yes Atlantis shields are far more powerful than the Odyssesy's.

The Oddyssesy allowed the Odyssesy to avoid destruction but that doesn't make it a more powerful vessel. Lack of beaming also means nothing in this case.

its clear that you're anti asgard and even clearer than in this respect, you're narrow minded. war war war. what about a non-war situation? save people from a death 100 m underground. what's the superhive gonna do. whats atlantis gonna do? oddy beams em out.

[/QUOTE]

I'm not anti-Asgard, I'm anti Asgard fanboy. In the context of the thread your points are irrelevent. Its about the most powerful ship not which ship can build a city from scratch.

[thekillman]

It could still cream the Odyssesy in a fight.

nope. atlantis sucks in space. in space, oddy owns it. on a planet, atlantis can dedicate all power to weapons and shields, and there it is a clear victor.

Can people be stored in Asgard buffers? Has this ever been shown? None of that relates to power, the most powerful ship is the ship which is best in combat.

yes. unending.

never stated to be combat.

powerful - 3 dictionary results
pow?er?ful??[pou-er-fuhl] Show IPA
Use powerful in a Sentence
–adjective
1. having or exerting great power or force.
2. physically strong, as a person: a large, powerful athlete.
3. producing great physical effects, as a machine or a blow.
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6. having great power, authority, or influence; mighty: a powerful nation.
7. Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S.: great in number or amount: a powerful lot of money.

powerful does not refer to combat. its one's power that can be exerted. the Odyssey has more power, it can affect time itself. in unending, that power was demonstrated, and it prevented oddy's destruction, therefore power over its own existance and the people within.

atlantis can not sustain itself during prolonged bombardment, oddy can.

Say Ori weapons are 100x stronger than Wraith weapons and the Odyssesy withstood 200 hits in AOT thats 20,000 Wraith shots yes?

Say Atlantis was hit by 10 shots a second by the Wraith in Siege (a low end) and Atlantis would last 3 days under that fire that yields...

2,592,000.

So yes Atlantis shields are far more powerful than the Odyssesy's.

just fancy numbers based on assumption. its also why i wont bring in my own comparisons. just pick a situation to base one's assumption on and one can bend it to his will.

for one, the oddy -well, before the wraith made themselves immune- couldve beamed a nuke onto the superhive. actually, since its jamming, the oddy should be able to home in on the emittor and blow it to hell with either a few nukes, or several APBW's, and then beam a nuke onboard. or just nuke the Dartbays, a single simple AMRAAM took out the dartbay doors, a nuke can certainly, then just toss annother nuke inside and watch the massive damage. then fire upon the internals and before you know, superhive gone.


atlantis is fancy, but as we now fully know is incompetent in space. oddy firing all nukes can push it far enough into the atmosphere to fall.


not to mention: oddy flees combat, picks up a gate, dials atlantis, disables the shield via mckay's backdoor, and tosses a nuke through.

or it just uses the railguns to *NOTE CAREFULLY* lay down a rain of fire onto atlantis. though heavily ineffective to the shields, any drones fired would be hit. if not instantly, it would still be hit later. or it has to fly around the large barrage after which the CIWS takes over and finishes the job.

then continue APBW fire.

[Buba uognarf]

nope. atlantis sucks in space. in space, oddy owns it. on a planet, atlantis can dedicate all power to weapons and shields, and there it is a clear victor.

How does the Odyssesy own it exactly? Atlantis lost to the Superhive, that doesn't mean it sucks in space and that it would lose to the Odyssesy.

yes. unending.

never stated to be combat.



powerful does not refer to combat. its one's power that can be exerted. the Odyssey has more power, it can affect time itself. in unending, that power was demonstrated, and it prevented oddy's destruction, therefore power over its own existance and the people within.

atlantis can not sustain itself during prolonged bombardment, oddy can.

A Time Jumper can change the past, I guess that makes it the most powerful ship?

Being able to speed up time within a bubble as a means of avoiding destruction after 50 years of thinking time does not make the Odyssesy the most powerful ship. It was more luck that enabled it to survive had Carter not been there to fiddle with it the Odyssesy would have been destroyed eventually.

just fancy numbers based on assumption. its also why i wont bring in my own comparisons. just pick a situation to base one's assumption on and one can bend it to his will.

I was being fairly generous to the Odyssesy in those assumptions I think. Atlantis clearly has the stronger shields which is all thats important, and they're stronger by a large margin.

for one, the oddy -well, before the wraith made themselves immune- couldve beamed a nuke onto the superhive. actually, since its jamming, the oddy should be able to home in on the emittor and blow it to hell with either a few nukes, or several APBW's, and then beam a nuke onboard. or just nuke the Dartbays, a single simple AMRAAM took out the dartbay doors, a nuke can certainly, then just toss annother nuke inside and watch the massive damage. then fire upon the internals and before you know, superhive gone.

Its never been shown that the emittors can be 'locked onto' and even then APBW do minimal damage to an incomplete Superhive the fully operational one would destroy the Odysessy long before it could drill through the hull. The beams would explode against the hull long before reaching the bay door. I'm also of the opinion that the Odyssesy would be dead long before enacting any of this plans.

atlantis is fancy, but as we now fully know is incompetent in space. oddy firing all nukes can push it far enough into the atmosphere to fall.

How do know the nukes will push it? They've never moved far smaller targets like the Asuran satellites and cruisers why should they move Atlantis? Once again being defeated by the Superhive does not make it incompetent.

not to mention: oddy flees combat, picks up a gate, dials atlantis, disables the shield via mckay's backdoor, and tosses a nuke through.

Thats cheating though isn't it? Its not a reflection of the Odyssesy's abilities.

or it just uses the railguns to *NOTE CAREFULLY* lay down a rain of fire onto atlantis. though heavily ineffective to the shields, any drones fired would be hit. if not instantly, it would still be hit later. or it has to fly around the large barrage after which the CIWS takes over and finishes the job.

then continue APBW fire.

[/QUOTE]

Drones can fly straight through Hive ships and Ha'taks and then back in again without exploding I doubt rail gun fire will stop them.

[Saquist]

it reveals 1 thing: atlantis sucks in space. also, we dont know the power left after the wormhole jump, and the mentioning of the atmosphere draining Atlantis' shields was worth mentioning, so it was significant. also, it was nearly floating on earth;s atmosphere, the engines required a ton of juice to keep it flying (the superhive's bolts knocked atlantis back) and it had to fire drones.


none of these problems apply to the odyssey.

I don't know If i'm inclined to believe the wormhole jump and the atmospheric interface was enough to compromise the shield.

It seems everything the power levels in the ZPM drop they mention it. This time they didn't. Atlantis sustained One Volley from the Hive and they promptly said...we can't take another volley. (one of those writer phrases they love to increase suspense)

To me this doesn't make sense that the Super hive after being inferior to the City...then introduct one ZPM and viola....many times more powerful than 3 of them in superior tech....

I really like Atlantis and they never played up it's potential as a city.
I wanted to much more of it's interior and it's capabilities. This was a crest fall episode for me.

[thekillman]

How does the Odyssesy own it exactly? Atlantis lost to the Superhive, that doesn't mean it sucks in space and that it would lose to the Odyssesy.

eehm. did you WATCH that battle? a hive is underpowered and requires days to deplete a 1zpm atlantis. infact, it requires a fleet AND days.

the superhive therefore has to draw all its power from the ZPM. therefore, it would normally require 3 ZPM's for the superhive to defeat atlantis.

a wormhole costs power. but even an intergalactic stargate dial does not deplete a ZPM. though the power might be higher with the Drive, even then its simply ridiculous if it drains 2 ZPM's. judging from Atlantis' abilities, the ZPM's still had more than enough power left.

so where did it loose all that energy?

-the atmosphere drained the shield rapidly
-atlantis had to keep proper orbit, against which it struggled due to the force of the bolts.
-atlantis kept up a shield
-atlantis fired drones.(arbitrary as drones can be fired by jumpers).

ergo, it sucks in space. it was in a clearly disadvantageous position. the oddy is a SPACE ship, ergo does not suffer from this.

The beams would explode against the hull long before reaching the bay door. I'm also of the opinion that the Odyssesy would be dead long before enacting any of this plans.

eehm. why? the doors were clearly exposed. also, have you seen the ROF? put that against BAMSR. clearly superior. the oddy's beams would rapidly succeed eachother. not fire and wait an hour.

also, why would it be dead before it could? it would have to be killed within seconds. which is impossible, due to its clearly superior shields compared to 304's. which took an entire broadside.

also, the most simplistic strategy: FLY BEHIND IT. the hive has most of its guns aimed forward. the superhive would have severely reduced firepower.

not to mention, a single nuke crippled a hive in No Mans Land. even though the superhive is vastly....superior, it would still fall in the category of "worth mentioning". though it might not rock the entire ship and it might not destroy everything that you can blow up on a hive, it would be effective enough to cut a chunck out of the armor. a 304 carries like 20 or so, twenty multi-GT nukes would do the job of blowing out a significant piece.

Drones can fly straight through Hive ships and Ha'taks and then back in again without exploding I doubt rail gun fire will stop them.

1: against hives, they were with hundreds. the Jumper drones did not go all the way through

2: at a speed of several mach's, the kinetic energy of a railslug, + the kinetic energy of a drone together is enough to destroy... both. also, blowing a hole in a piece of armor or hitting a bar of metal at high machs, well, see it like tossing a rock at a window and a rock at a bullet. smaller penetrates bigger.

Atlantis clearly has the stronger shields which is all thats important

weapons count too

and the oddy as i said has superior weapons with superior ROF.

[Saquist]

I just thought of something...
Perhaps Stargate shields work just like Star Trek shield but because we're often dealing with vastly inferior technology it appears that ZPM's only limitation is power.

However when ZPM's power a shield at maximum and the incoming fire threaten's to compromise the shield it's the technology that's failing not the power source.

[Buba uognarf]

eehm. did you WATCH that battle? a hive is underpowered and requires days to deplete a 1zpm atlantis. infact, it requires a fleet AND days.

the superhive therefore has to draw all its power from the ZPM. therefore, it would normally require 3 ZPM's for the superhive to defeat atlantis.

Do we know how many ZPMs the Hive had? Also the Superhive beating Atlantis does not mean the Odyssesy could beat Atlantis.

a wormhole costs power. but even an intergalactic stargate dial does not deplete a ZPM. though the power might be higher with the Drive, even then its simply ridiculous if it drains 2 ZPM's. judging from Atlantis' abilities, the ZPM's still had more than enough power left.

I assume the Superhive could dish out damage faster than the ZPMs could supply damage to the shield...although if that were the case they would recharge incredibly fast after it stopped firing which didn't happen...

so where did it loose all that energy?

-the atmosphere drained the shield rapidly
-atlantis had to keep proper orbit, against which it struggled due to the force of the bolts.
-atlantis kept up a shield
-atlantis fired drones.(arbitrary as drones can be fired by jumpers).

ergo, it sucks in space. it was in a clearly disadvantageous position. the oddy is a SPACE ship, ergo does not suffer from this.

The Odyssesy is only immune to these effects because I assume it would be moving and not planting itself in front of the Hive blocking Earth. If it were to try and hold an orbit I'm sure it would suffer the same problems.

None of this proves the Odyssesy could beat Atlantis. The Superhive has more firepower than the Odyssesy and is more immune to Atlantis' weapons than the Odyssesy. You've done a good job of detailing how and why Atlantis lost to the Superhive but thats all.

eehm. why? the doors were clearly exposed. also, have you seen the ROF? put that against BAMSR. clearly superior. the oddy's beams would rapidly succeed eachother. not fire and wait an hour.

also, why would it be dead before it could? it would have to be killed within seconds. which is impossible, due to its clearly superior shields compared to 304's. which took an entire broadside.

also, the most simplistic strategy: FLY BEHIND IT. the hive has most of its guns aimed forward. the superhive would have severely reduced firepower.

We can debate about the doors all day long but IIRC the 302 had to fly inside the ship for a little while before it got to the doors? I can't remember if he took a while to fly up to the doors or it took a while to fly into the rest of the ship after the doors.

If Odyssesy were to do this it would be going up against the entire broadside of the Hive ship which as seen in the battle with Atlantis can fire dozens of shots a second. The 304 took a salvo from an incomplete vessel, the completed vessel judging from what it did to Atlantis is significantly stronger. The Odyssesy would not last long.

Flying behind the Hive would save the Odyssesy from the bulk of its weapons but also mean that it had to blast through the nigh impenetrable hull. I think the Odyssesy's shields would give out before the Hives hull.

not to mention, a single nuke crippled a hive in No Mans Land. even though the superhive is vastly....superior, it would still fall in the category of "worth mentioning". though it might not rock the entire ship and it might not destroy everything that you can blow up on a hive, it would be effective enough to cut a chunck out of the armor. a 304 carries like 20 or so, twenty multi-GT nukes would do the job of blowing out a significant piece.

2x 304's engaged the Superhive before it was fully functional and caused by all indictations little damage I fail to see how the Odyssesy's nuke complement will do any better.

1: against hives, they were with hundreds. the Jumper drones did not go all the way through

2: at a speed of several mach's, the kinetic energy of a railslug, + the kinetic energy of a drone together is enough to destroy... both. also, blowing a hole in a piece of armor or hitting a bar of metal at high machs, well, see it like tossing a rock at a window and a rock at a bullet. smaller penetrates bigger.

1. The puddle jumpers drones went in far enough to cause significant damage, a couple of drones also penetrated straight through a Ha'tak. Also remember in No Mans Land even after the Orion had stopped firing the Drones continued to go in and out of the Hive ship.

2. Its not blowing a hole in a piece of armor its blowing a hole through an entire ship, you're assuming that the rail gun slugs would destroy the drones when drones have been pretty unstoppable against solid matter in the past.

weapons count too

and the oddy as i said has superior weapons with superior ROF.

APBW aren't superior though, small numbers of drones or even equal numbers of drones (in some cases) have achieved the same results as APBW shots. Drones have the ability to independantly seek targets without direct line of sight and can be fired in massive numbers, APBW require the Odyssesy to more or less face the opponent which limits its ability to move and fire.

Drones will take out the Odyssesy long before APBW take down Atlantis.

[thekillman]

2. Its not blowing a hole in a piece of armor its blowing a hole through an entire ship, you're assuming that the rail gun slugs would destroy the drones when drones have been pretty unstoppable against solid matter in the past.

its simple. a small object hitting a big object causes penetration.

APBW aren't superior though, small numbers of drones or even equal numbers of drones (in some cases) have achieved the same results as APBW shots. Drones have the ability to independantly seek targets without direct line of sight and can be fired in massive numbers, APBW require the Odyssesy to more or less face the opponent which limits its ability to move and fire.

three APBW's blow a hive. a jumper with many more than 3 drones did not take out a hive.

i'm confident that Oddy poses a threat in space cause atlantis sucks in space. the oddy is a spaceship for crying out loud, Atlantis is a city with engines, pretty much.

again, as i said, on a planet Atlantis is better.


APBW's are turret mounted, it could always fire at atlantis no matter what position it was in. flying straight at an enemy however allows it to bear all APBW's on the enemy

[Buba uognarf]

its simple. a small object hitting a big object causes penetration.

Thats not always the case though isit Killman? The kinetic impact of ramming through a Hive ship with its though hull able to withstand nukes is bound to large. There's no evidence to suggest rail gun shells will destroy Drones, we don't even know how Drones burrow through hulls impacts from rail gun shells may be completely void.

three APBW's blow a hive. a jumper with many more than 3 drones did not take out a hive.

Yet we've seen single shots cause minimal damage to Hives and cruisers have needed a few hits to be destroyed. Typical of you to always go for the high end and ignore anything else ay killman.

A puddle jumper is a what a billion'th of the size of a Hive ship? And with 6 drones it can cause significant damage easily as much as a single APBW, we've also seen hundreds of drones launched at once.

i'm confident that Oddy poses a threat in space cause atlantis sucks in space. the oddy is a spaceship for crying out loud, Atlantis is a city with engines, pretty much.

again, as i said, on a planet Atlantis is better.

Atlantis losing to the Superhive does not mean it sucks though. Pretty poor argument if I'm being honest Killman, the Superhive was a beast of a ship and while Atlantis' shields didn't appear to be as strong as they are planet side we can hardly say it sucks.

It may not be at its best in space struggling to hold an orbit with Carson flying the helm but its still the second most powerful ship in SG.

APBW's are turret mounted, it could always fire at atlantis no matter what position it was in. flying straight at an enemy however allows it to bear all APBW's on the enemy

No matter what position? So we've seen APBW fire backwards? At 90 degree angles?