The Future of Ship Battles

[jnadreth]

*Jnadreth has strange thought of Major Crazy Tom riding a MKIX towards Asuras-"Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"

[Crazy Tom]

*Jnadreth has strange thought of Major Crazy Tom riding a MKIX towards Asuras-"Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"

I'd probably do that too, eh?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

but if a vessel is outside of our sensor range it will also be out of weapons range and would have to move in for the kill and as soon as we see it coming we run.

and we could make the missiles more long range so that we would be out of their weapons range when we fire.

If you're operating using standard cloaking technology, this strategy no matter how much you wanna plead it's case still leaves your ship vulnerable to a point, I agree that it is a remote chance, but it's still present none the less.
The Wraith may build expanded Dart bays, start carrying more Darts and launch hundreds of them the moment they come out of hyperspace, if they take up the proper formation and keep firing constantly in random patterns, then they could easily create a point defense fire shields to prevent standard cloaked missiles from getting through.

What if the Wraith developed a concussive wide spread defense, like an EMP shield that they're tech could pass through or something that disrupts normal space and standard cloaking fields within say several hundred meters of a Hive/Cruiser, there's no way a standard cloaked missile or ship could get through undetected and if the Wraith can create counter measures to stop us from beaming nukes and people onto their ships within only a few occasions of us using that strategy then I think they could probably create a way to disable a cloaked projectile that's using Tauri/Asgard technology.
They are going to know that someone with cloaking technology is attacking and destroying their ships after only the first few attacks.
There's no way one or a couple of ships can attack the entire Wraith fleet within say a day without the Wraith at least attempting to create a way to see through a cloaked attack, especially when it's such a threat to them and not without you knowing where all of their ships are, which is why I don't think this could work as a long term and sole strategy to defeat the Wraith.

While my EMP shield may not work on technology like Puddle Jumpers, if they were used to deploy a cloaked weapon, I think a device that disrupts the space around Hives/Cruisers to see through cloaks could and I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility that the Wraith would develop something like this, before you managed to destroy a significant number of their ships and probably soon after you started using your strategy.

[Crazy Tom]

Your all forgeting a rather important fact:

1. Earth has never demonstrated th baility to manufacture EM cloaks.

2. They seem hideously expensive if only capital ships can be equiped with them. (Jumpers, being made by the greatest technological power in the cluster, don't count)

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Your all forgeting a rather important fact:

1. Earth has never demonstrated th baility to manufacture EM cloaks.

2. They seem hideously expensive if only capital ships can be equiped with them. (Jumpers, being made by the greatest technological power in the cluster, don't count)

I was talking about the Wraith using either an EMP shield or some kind of disruption field extended to a certain point around either a Hive or Cruiser to effectively decloak anything within a certain distance from the Wraith's ships.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that, my apologies.

[Crazy Tom]

I was talking about the Wraith using either an EMP shield or some kind of disruption field extended to a certain point around either a Hive or Cruiser to effectively decloak anything within a certain distance from the Wraith's ships.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that, my apologies.

It was more of a general anouncement than anything directed at you actually.

But i don't think it's posisble to disrupt a cloak. It sems to be a layer of magical handwavium force that instead of bending light around an object or taking it out of phase, scaters the light reflecting off an object. It would take an actual colision to reveal it's position.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

It was more of a general anouncement than anything directed at you actually.

But i don't think it's posisble to disrupt a cloak. It sems to be a layer of magical handwavium force that instead of bending light around an object or taking it out of phase, scaters the light reflecting off an object. It would take an actual colision to reveal it's position.

Oh right, I can see I didn't read your post correctly sorry.

Energy weapons can disable a cloak, so the emitters themselves could just be a weaker version of the Wraith's standard weapons, only fired out in widespread manner all around the larger ships creating a constant field.
Any object that was cloaked in the standard way (not out of phase) would have to pass through this field before coming close to the Hive/Cruiser and the field could be created a far enough distance from the vessels to give plenty of warning to start firing PDWs from Darts that would be launched the moment the larger vessels came out of hyperspace.

[jnadreth]

Should not the Queens be able to detect the minds of the crew of said cloaked vessel due to their enhanced telepathic abilities?????

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Should not the Queens be able to detect the minds of the crew of said cloaked vessel due to their enhanced telepathic abilities?????

I suppose it would depend how close the cloaked vessel was to the ship and I don't think the Wraith can probe minds or detect people in the traditional telepathic sense.

[stargater1990]

If you're operating using standard cloaking technology, this strategy no matter how much you wanna plead it's case still leaves your ship vulnerable to a point, I agree that it is a remote chance, but it's still present none the less.
The Wraith may build expanded Dart bays, start carrying more Darts and launch hundreds of them the moment they come out of hyperspace, if they take up the proper formation and keep firing constantly in random patterns, then they could easily create a point defense fire shields to prevent standard cloaked missiles from getting through.

What if the Wraith developed a concussive wide spread defense, like an EMP shield that they're tech could pass through or something that disrupts normal space and standard cloaking fields within say several hundred meters of a Hive/Cruiser, there's no way a standard cloaked missile or ship could get through undetected and if the Wraith can create counter measures to stop us from beaming nukes and people onto their ships within only a few occasions of us using that strategy then I think they could probably create a way to disable a cloaked projectile that's using Tauri/Asgard technology.
They are going to know that someone with cloaking technology is attacking and destroying their ships after only the first few attacks.
There's no way one or a couple of ships can attack the entire Wraith fleet within say a day without the Wraith at least attempting to create a way to see through a cloaked attack, especially when it's such a threat to them and not without you knowing where all of their ships are, which is why I don't think this could work as a long term and sole strategy to defeat the Wraith.

While my EMP shield may not work on technology like Puddle Jumpers, if they were used to deploy a cloaked weapon, I think a device that disrupts the space around Hives/Cruisers to see through cloaks could and I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility that the Wraith would develop something like this, before you managed to destroy a significant number of their ships and probably soon after you started using your strategy.

it will take time for the wraith to develope any sort of counter measures. and since we have 2 ships that can be deployed to pegasus and the wraith have like 60 hives provided we fit both ships with matter conversion tech so they can stay out long term and we enhance their long range sensors to detect hives further away we could take out at least half or a third of the 60 hives.

heres what we do: at first we fly around and scan for solitary hives, we jump out and use the asgard beam weapons to take them out and then find another target. we do that for a couple of days or maybe a week and take out maybe 20 hives untill they start banding together for support. so lets say they start moving in groups of 3, since 3 ships is too much for 1 ship thats when we use the cloaking method, we jump out of hyperspace out of sensor range then procede to minimum fireing distance and lock on fire the missils and back off and then 3 hits and 3 kills. we jump into hyperspace and keep targeting the groups for proboly like a week before they realize whats going on but by then weve proboly taken out another 20 or 30. now IF the wraith manage to develope some sort of counter measures to cloaked missiles we can switch to phase cloaked missiles which can take out the other 20 or so ships.

[jnadreth]

I suppose it would depend how close the cloaked vessel was to the ship and I don't think the Wraith can probe minds or detect people in the traditional telepathic sense.

I know the normal Wraith can't but Teyla was able to control a Queen inside another hive before???????

[Crazy Tom]

The Wraith seem to be able to project their throught and create ilusions in the minds of their prey wihtout actualy sensong their prey, like a sort of telepathic tear gas.

Their probing capabilities on the other hand seem to require precise knolegde of the target's lcoation and close proximity to the target. As well as a high level of concentration.

In the end we cannot make any asumption since the science is non-existent.

The firing if energy waves as a means of detection on the the hand, would not work. Since an energy blasts ablity to do damage lies in the cumulative efects of the bolt's partcile, and scatering it will be no more hanmful than turning a artuilery shell ito dust and firing that.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

it will take time for the wraith to develope any sort of counter measures. and since we have 2 ships that can be deployed to pegasus and the wraith have like 60 hives provided we fit both ships with matter conversion tech so they can stay out long term and we enhance their long range sensors to detect hives further away we could take out at least half or a third of the 60 hives.

Well given how quickly they managed to develop a counter measure against us beaming nukes or people to their ships, I don't think it would take them long to develop something like the cloak disruptor and you're working off of the assumption that this tactic could be implemented successfully every single time you wanted to use it and that simply isn't the case in real warfare, especially against an enemy that's as resilient and ingenious as the Wraith.
I'd bet the Ancients could have tried something like this cloaking strategy, they did after all fight the Wraith for a century and were constantly looking for the technological advantage against the Wraith and they still got their butts kicked.

I'm not sure exactly when it was said, but I think the Wraith are supposed to have 60 Hives in each region of the galaxy, not in total and you're forgetting they've also got like 3 Cruisers per Hive, at least they were able to gather 3 Cruisers to back up each of their Hives in The Siege part 2 and 3 and so did Todd for his Hive in First Contact.
I think sensors on board a 304 are as powerful as they can possibly be as in Adrift when the Apollo was trying to search for Atlantis it could only scan so far and I'd bet the Asgard gave the best sensor tech to the Odyssey in Unending, which I think would also be incorporated on the other ships if it were possible to fabricate that tech.

heres what we do: at first we fly around and scan for solitary hives, we jump out and use the asgard beam weapons to take them out and then find another target. we do that for a couple of days or maybe a week and take out maybe 20 hives untill they start banding together for support. so lets say they start moving in groups of 3, since 3 ships is too much for 1 ship thats when we use the cloaking method, we jump out of hyperspace out of sensor range then procede to minimum fireing distance and lock on fire the missils and back off and then 3 hits and 3 kills. we jump into hyperspace and keep targeting the groups for proboly like a week before they realize whats going on but by then weve proboly taken out another 20 or 30. now IF the wraith manage to develope some sort of counter measures to cloaked missiles we can switch to phase cloaked missiles which can take out the other 20 or so ships.

One on one, or even against two Hives then you probably won't have too much of a problem taking them out, but the Phoenix tried hit and run attacks and look what happened there, when it was ambushed by Michael's 3 Hives it lost big time.
The IOA won't risk losing our ships, unless it would put a massive dent in the Wraith's forces, or defeat them, even with the phase cloak strategy things aren't guaranteed all of the time and like I think I said before technology can malfunction or fail.
If and by the time the 2 304s had damaged or destroyed the number of ships you suggest I think the Wraith would be well on their way to rebuilding those numbers at which time they'd be reunited in finding out who their enemy was defeating them once and for all.
They'd search the entire galaxy as I imagine they did to find Atlantis in the Ancient's time and attack before you could implement or change Atlantis's shield to an out of phase cloak.

Waiting for a winning faction to emerge and building a big fleet to combat the Wraith on a large scale, when their numbers have been reduced due to the civil war is the best tactic we could use IMO.
Building the sensor network in the Pegasus galaxy would be the most valuable resource that we could implement next to having more ships in the galaxy.

Why in the hell would you want to poke a whole bunch of Dragons that are fighting with each other and will weaken themselves over time?
With their attention drawn away from the Tauri we can prepare properly, build more ships, like I said construct a galactic wide sensor network and then use the cloak/phase strategy in the mix of a whole well thought out assaults on the weakened Wraith.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I know the normal Wraith can't but Teyla was able to control a Queen inside another hive before???????

I thought that was coz she linked with the queen.
Was the queen in Submersion able to detect the Humans in Atlantis with her telepathic abilities?

[jnadreth]

Well she turned up out of the blue-perhaps she sensed humans nearby????