The Future of Ship Battles

[stargater1990]

why do you say that a clock nuke missile is better then the asgrad beam weapons

read the last paragraph of my origional post, i said it would be safer because we would be cloaked.

[stargater1990]

I've always thought that using cloaked missiles as an offensive weapon in a fight would be a great idea, perhaps as a opening strike sort of thing before moving in for the kill with beam weapons/railguns. However, one problem is:

Modern missiles obviously emit a lot of heat out the back, which would be very visible against the near absolute-zero temperatures of space. Thus, any ship with half-decent sensors would be able to track them without much problem. Having said that, perhaps using some of Merlin's phase-shifting technology instead would be perfect, as the entire missile would be out of phase so its exhausts should be the same. The missile would simply un-phase-shift upon contact with the enemy ship, or better yet inside it. One also gets the added benefit of the missile being invulnerable to interception, also this should be possible with our level of tech, as in Unending Carter manages to recreate it onboard the Odyssey.

way ahead of you. i made this thread a while back about doing just that too:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=57939


and as for the heat out the back, we could redesign them with some other type of propulsion.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

way ahead of you. i made this thread a while back about doing just that too:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=57939


and as for the heat out the back, we could redesign them with some other type of propulsion.

That I'd agree with.

I have a question for you stargater1990, why not develop some kind of cloaking shield?
You could say add an extra set of specially designed independently powered cloaking emitters which would create a powerful cloaking field outside the shields, giving you added protection should the Wraith fire near your position, coz there is still a possibility, no matter how remote you think it is that it would happen, especially when you go in to launch your missile(s).
If you had absolutely no defense against their weapons while cloaked and they were to shoot your cloak would drop and you'd have no time to raise your shields before the destroyed your ship, they may even target your shield emitters when they see it's an Earth ship.

It's better to be extra safe, even paranoid than sorry.

[ha'tak_]

That I'd agree with.

I have a question for you stargater1990, why not develop some kind of cloaking shield?
You could say add an extra set of specially designed independently powered cloaking emitters which would create a powerful cloaking field outside the shields, giving you added protection should the Wraith fire near your position, coz there is still a possibility, no matter how remote you think it is that it would happen, especially when you go in to launch your missile(s).
If you had absolutely no defense against their weapons while cloaked and they were to shoot your cloak would drop and you'd have no time to raise your shields before the destroyed your ship, they may even target your shield emitters when they see it's an Earth ship.

It's better to be extra safe, even paranoid than sorry.

i thin rodney whould have tried that if possible

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

i thin rodney whould have tried that if possible

I guess he probably would, although a jumper only has one cloaking generator as far as I'm aware, plus Atlantis only has one set of shield emitters and you'd need something extra so you could produce both fields.
Both kinds of energy fields wouldn't operate in the same space and we know that a shield can be extended much further from it's originally preset location (as explained when the Ancients expanded Atlantis's shield to cover a portion of Lantia's atmosphere to stop the solar flare from damaging some of the planet in Echoes season 3 of SGA), an energy weapon can be fired through the shields so it should be possible to produce the cloak outside of the shield.
Even if the two fields can't be replenished at the same time, they could say replenish within nano second intervals of each other giving both a cloaked and shielded vessel without reducing your ships defensive capabilities and this could also maybe be applied to missiles or maneuverable projectiles assuming it works on a vessel.

[stargater1990]

That I'd agree with.

I have a question for you stargater1990, why not develop some kind of cloaking shield?
You could say add an extra set of specially designed independently powered cloaking emitters which would create a powerful cloaking field outside the shields, giving you added protection should the Wraith fire near your position, coz there is still a possibility, no matter how remote you think it is that it would happen, especially when you go in to launch your missile(s).
If you had absolutely no defense against their weapons while cloaked and they were to shoot your cloak would drop and you'd have no time to raise your shields before the destroyed your ship, they may even target your shield emitters when they see it's an Earth ship.

It's better to be extra safe, even paranoid than sorry.

technically we would have advanced warning if the hives were going to fire at us because we would detect their weapons powering up and we could

drop cloak and raise shield in time.

or we could simply drop cloak and enter hypersace,

or get out of range of their weapons but technically we would always be far enough away that we would be out of weapons range

or we could fly right up next to the hive to where were so close that their weapons cant hit us.



and i dont think it possible to have the cloak and the shield running simultaneously. i could be wrong but its never been shown on the show so theirs no way to know for sure but it could be possible.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

technically we would have advanced warning if the hives were going to fire at us because we would detect their weapons powering up and we could

drop cloak and raise shield in time.

or we could simply drop cloak and enter hypersace,

or get out of range of their weapons but technically we would always be far enough away that we would be out of weapons range

or we could fly right up next to the hive to where were so close that their weapons cant hit us.



and i dont think it possible to have the cloak and the shield running simultaneously. i could be wrong but its never been shown on the show so theirs no way to know for sure but it could be possible.

There's still a fair few holes in this strategy of yours which are, you're working off of the assumption that you will always be able to find every Wraith ship and haven't even contemplated trying to set up a galactic wide sensor network to use the strategy to the best of it's ability and make sure that no Wraith vessels are sitting just outside of your vessel's sensor range to come to the aid of their Wraith allies.
The Wraith aren't so naive as to sit around doing nothing while their vessels are getting wiped out left and right from a seemingly invisible foe.
You have to go back to Atlantis at least to refill on missiles and other supplies, the Wraith will probably be searching for you and I doubt that Todd would let this strategy go unchallenged, he'd probably rat the Atlantis expedition out just for trying such a tactic.
No matter how much you think you are unbeatable fighting in this way, there will always be a chance no matter how remote that when you go in to attack the Wraith will still randomly fire even not knowing when these attacks might come.

It may work a few times, but it could and should never be the sole basis on which to plan your attack of an enemy that outnumbers you 100 to 1.

A 304 is much larger than a 302 and going in as close as you suggest to the Hive would be unwise as in the Siege part 3, when the Daedalus made it's retreat from the Hives preparing to make a run for the city it still got shot at.

You're working off of the assumption that every single mission of this type would be a routine thing that would go off without a problem, but shields can malfunction as can cloaks, so there's always a chance however slim that when you go in to launch your missile(s) that a portion of the cloak will fail, leaving Wraith fodder.

I've kinda explained how a cloak could cover the shield in my post numbered #48 on this page of the thread.

[Finger13]

Phase shifting is obviously the superior technology. And it's one that we're already capable of. Taking the whole ship out of phase means that you're undetectable and invincible. You can get nice and close, come back into phase and fire a missile at point blank and run as fast as possible, or simply drop back out of phase so that you could fire the missile from a few hundred metres away and not be affected by the blast.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Phase shifting is obviously the superior technology. And it's one that we're already capable of. Taking the whole ship out of phase means that you're undetectable and invincible. You can get nice and close, come back into phase and fire a missile at point blank and run as fast as possible, or simply drop back out of phase so that you could fire the missile from a few hundred metres away and not be affected by the blast.

I'd agree that using Phase Shifting as the cloaking tech would be much wiser, hell you could make some long range missiles, even hyperdrive capable ones, launch them throughout the Pegasus galaxy and just use them like heat seeking missiles, only Wraith seeking ones.

You could even make a remote de-phase device on each missile, launch it and de-phase once inside a Wraith vessel, it would make an excellent substitute for the Asgard beaming technology and leave your vessel out of phase and permanently safe.

[stargater1990]

There's still a fair few holes in this strategy of yours which are, you're working off of the assumption that you will always be able to find every Wraith ship and haven't even contemplated trying to set up a galactic wide sensor network to use the strategy to the best of it's ability and make sure that no Wraith vessels are sitting just outside of your vessel's sensor range to come to the aid of their Wraith allies.
The Wraith aren't so naive as to sit around doing nothing while their vessels are getting wiped out left and right from a seemingly invisible foe.
You have to go back to Atlantis at least to refill on missiles and other supplies, the Wraith will probably be searching for you and I doubt that Todd would let this strategy go unchallenged, he'd probably rat the Atlantis expedition out just for trying such a tactic.
No matter how much you think you are unbeatable fighting in this way, there will always be a chance no matter how remote that when you go in to attack the Wraith will still randomly fire even not knowing when these attacks might come.

It may work a few times, but it could and should never be the sole basis on which to plan your attack of an enemy that outnumbers you 100 to 1.

A 304 is much larger than a 302 and going in as close as you suggest to the Hive would be unwise as in the Siege part 3, when the Daedalus made it's retreat from the Hives preparing to make a run for the city it still got shot at.

You're working off of the assumption that every single mission of this type would be a routine thing that would go off without a problem, but shields can malfunction as can cloaks, so there's always a chance however slim that when you go in to launch your missile(s) that a portion of the cloak will fail, leaving Wraith fodder.

I've kinda explained how a cloak could cover the shield in my post numbered #48 on this page of the thread.

but if a vessel is outside of our sensor range it will also be out of weapons range and would have to move in for the kill and as soon as we see it coming we run.

and we could make the missiles more long range so that we would be out of their weapons range when we fire.

[Crazy Tom]

What about a cloaked carier with multiple beam-equiped drones(UCAVs)?

[jnadreth]

What about a cloaked carier with multiple beam-equiped drones(UCAVs)?

Coming up with more efficient ways of killing-You're not by any chance a Dalek are you????

[Crazy Tom]

Coming up with more efficient ways of killing-You're not by any chance a Dalek are you????

100% hard core human. Not species can match our potential for destructuve capability.

[jnadreth]

Vorash, Acturas, Asuras, Delmak, Euronda-well the clones, Asurans, Goa'uld, Wraith, Ori, Priors, Ori Footsoldiers, Jaffa, Replicators, Aschen

Yep your right-even the Daleks cower at the Taur'i's destructiveness

[Crazy Tom]

Vorash, Acturas, Asuras, Delmak, Euronda-well the clones, Asurans, Goa'uld, Wraith, Ori, Priors, Ori Footsoldiers, Jaffa, Replicators, Aschen

Yep your right-even the Daleks cower at the Taur'i's destructiveness

Better hope so. 'Cuz otherwise tigers would rule the Earth.