Ancient ZPM creation room/machine

[stargater1990]

I did answer that in my post that you quoted, but you must have missed it, here's what I said again:
"I think the answer to that is if a means to create ZPMs exists within the city, perhaps the process is quite complex and lengthy and Janus thought the expedition may face impending doom from the Wraith shortly after arriving in the city."
Thus needing the actual ZPMs the moment they stepped into the city or at least shortly after.
Janus knew that the Wraith were aware of Atlantis's location within the Pegasus galaxy and the fact that it was going to be dangerously low on power.
The expedition were going to have no shield when the ZPMs had all reached maximum entropy, if the Wraith were to discover the city was reoccupied with no defense they'd attack (as they did in the episodes The Siege part 1 to 3).

Of course the fact that Janus is still an Ancient, perhaps he also thought it could corrupt the young race to have such an inexhaustible power source at their fingertips if they could make ZPMs whenever they wanted to produce them.
There's still also the possibility that a device that makes ZPMs may also do other things, or perhaps it's similar to the matter construction technology that Merlin and Daniel used in The Quest part 2.
Perhaps a normal Human on our evolutionary level can't use the device, or have the level of concentration needed to make it work like the Ancients do.



I don't really think it would make much of a difference, not now that the show is coming to an end, perhaps if the Wraith are going to get upgraded somehow

Spoiler:

there's always a possibility Todd made a copy of the Asgard knowledge base on board the Daedalus in the episode The Lost Tribe, I think all 304s are at least programmed with the knowledge of Hyperdrive engines, power sources and other systems on board our ships if not all of the Asgard's knowledge.

There's always the chance that some future movie or Universe will introduce some new uber intergalactic enemy race.



At the moment are shields are still capable of being taken down, if the Odyssey was to go to Pegasus galaxy it could probably take out most of the Wraith's fleet, like a half single handed anyway.

yes, he might have thought that the wraith might still be there and that they would need zpms immediately BUT would it have hurt to just tell her of the exsistence of such a room in atlantis?

also, i think janus would have been smart eneough to know that after at most a couple thousand years of absolutely no contact from the ancients and no more ships going to lantia and no ancients spotted or detected by their gate taggers off world, that the wraith would have taken the hint that the ancients were no more and went back to bussiness as usual.

this would mean that they would leave lantia knowing they won the war and enjoy the pegasus galaxy. even if the wraith found out about some humans that were causing problems, they wouldnt immediately rush to atlantis knowing they came from their. as far as the wraith were concerned, atlantis was abandoned on the ocean floor never to trouble them again.

basically my point is that janus is a smart guy and he would know that they really wouldnt need the zpms immediately like your suggesting. at least in my opinion.


and as for the zpms being made from technology like merlin made his sangral out of i admit it is a possibility, however slim, but even then, what woul be the harm of showing her? i mean what harm would it do


and i dont think he would have thought that having the tech to make zpms would corrupt us. i mean if he thought that he would have erased the zpm building info from the database or make elizabeth come back to earth because if he thought that zpms would corrupt us, then having access to the most advanced city in the universe filled with labs beyond our science would be out of the question and he would have blocked the gate and taken elizabeth back with him, but he didint. so i dont think he thought that.

[Lord Anar]

First off you have to think of ZPMs as batteries.
They can hold a massive amount of energy, but are only shells.
They are larger on the inside than on the outside.
The Ancients may have been able to manufacture these in Atlantis, but still needed to charge them up.
They could have used geo-thermal energy, but they still would need a charger, and that is where the Ancient Control Chairs come in.
They take energy, but also should be able to put energy back in.
Think of like cell phones that have a battery.
The cell phone takes the energy from the battery like a ZPM, but when put in a charger like the Ancient Control Chair with available energy source it fills.
It may take various sources of energy whether it be geo-thermal, solar, or possibly sub-space.
They could use sub-space, but that could be traced to the source.
Think of SG-1 S10E20 Unending when the Asgard Computer Core energy source was giving away Odyssey's position to the Ori.
The Wraith may be able to trace similar energy sources.

[stargater1990]

First off you have to think of ZPMs as batteries.
They can hold a massive amount of energy, but are only shells.
They are larger on the inside than on the outside.
The Ancients may have been able to manufacture these in Atlantis, but still needed to charge them up.
They could have used geo-thermal energy, but they still would need a charger, and that is where the Ancient Control Chairs come in.
They take energy, but also should be able to put energy back in.
Think of like cell phones that have a battery.
The cell phone takes the energy from the battery like a ZPM, but when put in a charger like the Ancient Control Chair with available energy source it fills.
It may take various sources of energy whether it be geo-thermal, solar, or possibly sub-space.
They could use sub-space, but that could be traced to the source.
Think of SG-1 S10E20 Unending when the Asgard Computer Core energy source was giving away Odyssey's position to the Ori.
The Wraith may be able to trace similar energy sources.

the zpms are not batteries that store whatever energy you put into them, they get their power from a self contained pocket of subspace time untill there is no more energy to draw from that particular pocket of subspace and the zpm is depleted.

basically you can make the pgysical zpm you see but in order for it to have any power, it needs to be filled with a pocket of subspace or its useless.

[Lord Anar]

That was my first post, but I should have seen that coming.
The ZPM is a shell, but its what is on inside that really counts.
If ZPMs were so easy to make why use geo-thermal. (Do not respond to that comment)
I was just trying to speculate how these ZPMs got so powerful.
This is Sci-Fi after all, but should not people have to work for ZPMs.
That (self-contained region of sub-space time) explanation is the party line, and does not begin to even explain how powerful are, hence the explanation. ZPMs are not batteries, but it is about the PE (potential energy) contained inside that counts.

I stepped on that land mine, but I have a personal interest in energy, and just wanted to speculate that ZPMs could be get back to full power (recharged).
The comparison between batteries and ZPMs was not meant to diminish the power of ZPMs just to speculate.
If not they might as well be disposable batteries like here on earth. (Do not respond to that comment)
You use them, throw them away, and recycle them for materials. (Do not respond to that comment)

This was just being speculative to say it would be interesting if ZPMs could be brought back to full power. What was depleted can become useful again.

The Replicators should have sank Atlantis S5E5 (Ghost in the Machine) and SG-1's S10E6 (200) was funny when Cheyenne Mountain blew up.

[Lord Anar]

That was my first post, but I should have seen that coming.
The ZPM is a shell, but it's what is on inside that really counts.
If ZPMs were so easy to make, why use geo-thermal. (Do not respond to that comment)
I was just trying to speculate how these ZPMs got so powerful.
This is Sci-Fi after all, but should not people have to work for ZPMs.
That (self-contained region of sub-space time) explanation is the party line, and does not begin to even explain how powerful are, hence the explanation. ZPMs are not batteries, but it is about the PE (potential energy) contained inside that counts.

I stepped on that land mine, but I have a personal interest in energy, and just wanted to speculate that ZPMs could get back to full power (recharged).
The comparison between batteries and ZPMs was not meant to diminish the power of ZPMs just to speculate.
If not they might as well be disposable batteries like here on earth. (Do not respond to that comment)
You use them, throw them away, and recycle them for materials. (Do not respond to that comment)

This was just being speculative to say it would be interesting if ZPMs could be brought back to full power. What was depleted can become useful again.

The Replicators should have sank Atlantis S5E5 (Ghost in the Machine) and SG-1's S10E6 (200) was funny when Cheyenne Mountain blew up.

[Col.Ads]

and i dont think he would have thought that having the tech to make zpms would corrupt us. i mean if he thought that he would have erased the zpm building info from the database or make elizabeth come back to earth because if he thought that zpms would corrupt us, then having access to the most advanced city in the universe filled with labs beyond our science would be out of the question and he would have blocked the gate and taken elizabeth back with him, but he didint. so i dont think he thought that.

Agreed, If Janus had any thoughts of corruption he would not have helped Weir.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

yes, he might have thought that the wraith might still be there and that they would need zpms immediately BUT would it have hurt to just tell her of the exsistence of such a room in atlantis?

Of course at this point in the series it wouldn't hurt for either the SGC or SGA teams to find a means of making ZPMs and it work for Humans, but from the writers and viewers perspective it removes all too much of the suspense from the show when you give the characters the means to withstand everything the Wraith can throw at the city's shield.
I was just trying to find rational reasons why Janus wouldn't just tell Weir that the thing existed.
To be perfectly honest I now wish that 'Before I Sleep' had been aired in a later season as it could have given TPTB the perfect time to reveal a device that can make ZPMs and removed all the unanswered questions.
Only one of the gate addresses Janus gave Weir has been explored and the others just haven't been mentioned, so maybe it's just not in Atlantis.

also, i think janus would have been smart eneough to know that after at most a couple thousand years of absolutely no contact from the ancients and no more ships going to lantia and no ancients spotted or detected by their gate taggers off world, that the wraith would have taken the hint that the ancients were no more and went back to bussiness as usual.

I don't think I said Janus was a dumb guy.
You have to remember that alternate time line Weir's team had already used Ancient technology (eg: they arrived in Atlantis 10,000 years ago in Janus's time traveling Puddle Jumper) and the Wraith knew that the city hadn't been destroyed, just abandoned by the Ancients.
Janus giving Weir those gate addresses meant he knew that we would explore the Pegasus galaxy and likely come into contact with the Wraith at some point in our time in that galaxy.
The SGA team were wearing new looking unfamiliar clothing that the Wraith would never have seen before.
The Wraith had pretty much covered and culled the whole of the Pegasus.
There's still also the possibility that the Wraith knew the Ancients had left the Pegasus galaxy.
I doubt if the Ancients socialized with the peoples of the Pegasus galaxy that they didn't mention coming from another galaxy.

this would mean that they would leave lantia knowing they won the war and enjoy the pegasus galaxy. even if the wraith found out about some humans that were causing problems, they wouldnt immediately rush to atlantis knowing they came from their. as far as the wraith were concerned, atlantis was abandoned on the ocean floor never to trouble them again.

True, but Janus must have known our people would travel through the gate and come into contact with the Wraith at some point after arriving in the city.
Janus would also know how persuasive the Wraith can be and could probably get the knowledge that the city still lives and where our teams have come from, by using their telepathic abilities.

basically my point is that janus is a smart guy and he would know that they really wouldnt need the zpms immediately like your suggesting. at least in my opinion.

Again I never said Janus wasn't a smart guy.
You're forgetting that Janus had programmed the city to rise to the ocean's surface when the power got too low, once that happened the expedition would be defenseless.
If it takes some time to figure out how to make ZPMs with the device (if it exists withing the city's walls) the team would be too vulnerable.

and as for the zpms being made from technology like merlin made his sangral out of i admit it is a possibility, however slim, but even then, what woul be the harm of showing her? i mean what harm would it do

I think at least the casing is made using something like Merlin's Matter Construction device.
Other parts of a ZPM's construction and filling with the region of space time may be monumentally complex and well beyond our current capabilities even if all the technology needed to make them is to hand.
This is a bit of a stretch but perhaps when Janus healed Weir he studied her brain to see how different her's was from Ancient brain patterns and from those studies learned that our current level of evolution in the Human form would not able to use such a device, which would mean giving her the knowledge of a device that makes ZPMs would be useless to us.
You're also forgetting that Weir asked for ZPMs and not a means to make ZPMs.
Perhaps the device(s) doesn't exist in the city, but on one of the planets that Janus gave Weir the addresses for.

and i dont think he would have thought that having the tech to make zpms would corrupt us. i mean if he thought that he would have erased the zpm building info from the database or make elizabeth come back to earth because if he thought that zpms would corrupt us, then having access to the most advanced city in the universe filled with labs beyond our science would be out of the question and he would have blocked the gate and taken elizabeth back with him, but he didint. so i dont think he thought that.

I agree that was a bit of a stretch, but it is still a possibility that Janus was thinking giving us the means to have that kind of power on tap whenever we wanted it could alter the balance of power not only in the Pegasus galaxy but throughout the entire universe.
I don't know if Weir mentioned to Janus that we are capable of making hyperdrive capable ships and with ZPMs to hand we could go wherever we wanted, whenever we wanted, have ships with insanely powerful shields and eventually weapons.
It humbles a race to have to make it on their own as we will now (well with the Asgard technology anyway ).

I must also add that there seemed to be less than a day from the time Weir woke up in the medical facility, to when the Ancient's left and she went into stasis.
Janus may have been too concerned about executing his plan to even think about such a device.
Smart people often don't think about the easy and simple solution as we've seen with Thor (SG1 season 4 'Small Victories').

[EternalAlteran]

I doubt we will ever learn. It would make us all powerful.

[Dragon_Heart]

How? That machine didn't create bubbles of space time...

actually, that machine was made exactly for extracting space time energy.
the tech bridges universes, as we have seen, so it must affect space time in some form. they are drawing power exactly from subspace, but not in this universe. for all we know, the ancients used it to take zero point energy from our own space-time. not sure if thats entirely correct, its been awhile since ive seen the episode.

anyway, they won't give us any way to create one, we would become to powerful.

[Buba uognarf]

actually, that machine was made exactly for extracting space time energy.
the tech bridges universes, as we have seen, so it must affect space time in some form. they are drawing power exactly from subspace, but not in this universe. for all we know, the ancients used it to take zero point energy from our own space-time. not sure if thats entirely correct, its been awhile since ive seen the episode.

anyway, they won't give us any way to create one, we would become to powerful.

Extracting the energy from an alternate reality is not the same as creating a ZPM. ZPM's draw zero point energy from a self contained region of subspace time to avoid the problem of uncontrolable exotic particles as seen in the episode, 'Trinity'.

Its possible the Wraith destroyed the outposts which built ZPM's. Or the Ancients destroyed the facilities themselves to prevent the Wraith getting them.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Extracting the energy from an alternate reality is not the same as creating a ZPM. ZPM's draw zero point energy from a self contained region of subspace time to avoid the problem of uncontrolable exotic particles as seen in the episode, 'Trinity'.

Its possible the Wraith destroyed the outposts which built ZPM's. Or the Ancients destroyed the facilities themselves to prevent the Wraith getting them.

Do you think that device could have extracted energy from our space time?
What about using the Nanite technology that McKay used to make FRAN to construct a ZPM case, then harness space time using the device in 'McKay and Mrs Miller', however I have just realised a little problem when it comes to transferring the energy into the casing unless some kind of bridging device is lying around Atlantis somewhere I don't know how you'd get the energy into the ZPM.
I recall McKay saying something in an episode about hooking a ZPM up to the Gate system and charging it, so maybe you can fill it with energy directly from the energy capture device, what do you think?

[Frolas]

actually, that machine was made exactly for extracting space time energy.
the tech bridges universes, as we have seen, so it must affect space time in some form. they are drawing power exactly from subspace, but not in this universe. for all we know, the ancients used it to take zero point energy from our own space-time. not sure if thats entirely correct, its been awhile since ive seen the episode.

anyway, they won't give us any way to create one, we would become to powerful.

thats not true at all, remember from what we know, the Ancients Los to the Warith even with all those ZPM's, the numbers won over the tech

Extracting the energy from an alternate reality is not the same as creating a ZPM. ZPM's draw zero point energy from a self contained region of subspace time to avoid the problem of uncontrolable exotic particles as seen in the episode, 'Trinity'.

Its possible the Wraith destroyed the outposts which built ZPM's. Or the Ancients destroyed the facilities themselves to prevent the Wraith getting them.

if the Ancients destroyed the facility, its VERY doubtful they would have deleted every entry in the database around it, also its unclear why there hasnt been a reference(which is why i first made this post)

the Wraith never would have destroyed a facility for ZPM creation, they themselves knew how to use the tech for their own means, ie the clonning machine that let them win the war in the first siege if atlantis, the Wraith would have been able to apply that sort of tech for advanced weapons and travel options

[velmate]

I think, there is no machin in Pegasus and Milky Way. Least in our time.

Because Janus didn't give creating place for us. He only gave location of ZPMs.

And remember SG1 episodes "Fifth Race" and "The Lost City". Jack downloaded different Ancient datas to his brain.
In Fifth Race, probably he downloaded a scientific data about Ancient civilizations came from plague time when Atlantis left to Pegasus. Because he did his ZPM with simple things in SGC.
But in Lost City, He didn't build another ZPM. He went to go Proclarush for take ZPM. And
Daniel & Merlin downloaded another data for Sangraal in hidden stargate address.

so,

I think, Janus and his friends don't know anything about to make ZPM 10,000 years ago. Probably they only used their "ZPM stocks" like drones.

We know Atlantis leaved Earth a few millions years ago with creators of most advanced teches of Ancients like Dakara Weapon,drones,time machine,jumpers,atlantis,ZPMs, The Ark of Truth and Destiny with Stargates...

But when they ascended or died because of plague in time, young Ancients like Janus forgot to make ZPM tech...

If 3 ZPM can hold shield for 10,000 years, calculate a stock like 1000 ZPM...

Least 3 milllion years... Or if shield can hold 2 Hive ships attack for 5-6 days with only 1 ZPM, You can hold with 1000 ZPMs for 15-16 years And Probably Hives deplete because of firing

[ggf31416]

I believe that making a ZPM would need more energy that the ZPM can provide, as large amounts of energy cannot came from nowhere.
It's likely they get the energy from inside a sun using modified stargate technology.
Power from a source like that would not be very easy to control unlike power from the ZPM, so the facility becomes unusable and radioactive after 1 use and has to be destroyed after retrieving the ZPM, so you need to build a new facility for each ZPM you makes.

[Frolas]

I believe that making a ZPM would need more energy that the ZPM can provide, as large amounts of energy cannot came from nowhere.
It's likely they get the energy from inside a sun using modified stargate technology.
Power from a source like that would not be very easy to control unlike power from the ZPM, so the facility becomes unusable and radioactive after 1 use and has to be destroyed after retrieving the ZPM, so you need to build a new facility for each ZPM you makes.

that goes without thinking what the ZPM is, a portion of artificial sub space