ZPM: will they ever reveal it?

[Murzin]

hello?

rising: 3 full ZPM's hold the water back for 10000 years.1 zpm does it for 3333.333333 years.

Trinity: arcturus=25 ZPM's. worked at 50%, destroyed nearly an entire solar system.


the calcs arent mine. but both are often used. the shield in rising probably ran in efficient mode.

10^28 joules is the lowests calc i know. and the most accurate probably. [in reality, its prob higher due to shield sustaining etc]


im not trying to say its the way it is. i try to explain how it coulve been done. and i realized a NIG for example can make tons and tons of energy. known power+ 10^28 ZPM= 3 ZPM's per year.

uhh....

cite an episode where we have a 100% fully charged ZPM and they talk about how much power it can release/sustain.

otherwise, all you are doing is talking about the current output of a partially depleted ZPM.

[thekillman]

you dont get it do you? im talking about instances where you can determine the power of a ZPM. like taking 10 shots of a 100 teraton blasts, and then the shield fails. or holding back the ocean for 3333 years. besides, ZPM power is calculated in 10^28 or 10^29. whether its 10^26 or 10^30 is a difference of 10000x, but for ZPM calcs, its pretty accurate.

a nova is something of 10^42 joules [fact]. arcturus was worth 12.5 ZPM's when it was active, 10^42/12.5 is stil something of 10^41. if the poweroutput is per second, then a ZPM is 10^42/300 [5 minutes], /12.5 is somewhere in the 10^38 range. you have to understand that ZPM calcs are logarithmic. whether A in Ax10^X is 4 or 9 or 1 doesnt matter that much. its about the X.

[Mister Oragahn]

You really want to read the following thread:

Asgard Neutrino Ion Generators - Vastly Inferior to ZPM's?

I'll check the Rising-derived calculations, they seem really bizarre.

For an absolute (and mainly contradictory) low end, consider the energy required to lift Atlantis with a single ZPM.
It was a major plot point, but it never made any sense, as all races around, from Goa'uld to Wraith, could lift ships just as big if not massively bigger off the ground without a problem. Consider, for example, Anubis' supership leaving Kelowna, or how Apophis' absolutely huge supership was going to be lifted off once finished (Upgrades).
Look at the hiveships which literally dwarf Atlantis, yet we know they can land and take off without a problem.

[thekillman]

who do you think you're talking to? i posted a third of the posts

[Buba uognarf]

hello?

rising: 3 full ZPM's hold the water back for 10000 years.1 zpm does it for 3333.333333 years.

Trinity: arcturus=25 ZPM's. worked at 50%, destroyed nearly an entire solar system.


the calcs arent mine. but both are often used. the shield in rising probably ran in efficient mode.

10^28 joules is the lowests calc i know. and the most accurate probably. [in reality, its prob higher due to shield sustaining etc]


im not trying to say its the way it is. i try to explain how it coulve been done. and i realized a NIG for example can make tons and tons of energy. known power+ 10^28 ZPM= 3 ZPM's per year.

Then again if we find a middle value between the highest and lowest it would take thousands of years for a NIG to make enough energy to equal a ZPM. You're being bias and taking the lowest value.

A NIG can't create an artificial region of subspace time. ZPM's are made by some sort of exotic process, something a bit more complicated than filling it with power from a powerful reactor.

[thekillman]

wow our discussion is spreading far and wide here.


anyway, im taking the safer ground by taking the lower value. the 10^40 one is based on multiple factors. and it excludes time.

Then again if we find a middle value between the highest and lowest it would take thousands of years for a NIG to make enough energy to equal a ZPM.

well thats a correct analysis of what i said. indeed, i cant deny that.


the idea is that the NIGs generate the power for the Singularity to form. then again, i also said some other exotic process could be used. its merely a possibility, and i like to point out the ones most possible.

may i point out that if you could get a ZPM calculation thats more accurate than the Rising one [which is the power needed to hold the water back for 3333 years. which is quite accurate, as such power needs can be rather easily determined. the Trinity isnt. first, its not an actual supernova, second there's the duration.

[Buba uognarf]

wow our discussion is spreading far and wide here.


anyway, im taking the safer ground by taking the lower value. the 10^40 one is based on multiple factors. and it excludes time.


well thats a correct analysis of what i said. indeed, i cant deny that.


the idea is that the NIGs generate the power for the Singularity to form. then again, i also said some other exotic process could be used. its merely a possibility, and i like to point out the ones most possible.

may i point out that if you could get a ZPM calculation thats more accurate than the Rising one [which is the power needed to hold the water back for 3333 years. which is quite accurate, as such power needs can be rather easily determined. the Trinity isnt. first, its not an actual supernova, second there's the duration.

Well if take time into effect the number we get will still be far above 10^28. So the rising method doesn't include multiple factors as well? There's no way after looking at trinity that a ZPM can hold only 10^28 joules. The device wasn't on long enough to bring the number down by 12 orders of magnitude. Even if we assume that per second the device generated the energy needed to deplete a dozen ZPMs the number is still going to be much much higher than 10^28 joules.

[thekillman]

but didnt i say the 10^28 is a low calc, and it could fluctuate up to 10^30?
its the safe side, as i said.

[Buba uognarf]

but didnt i say the 10^28 is a low calc, and it could fluctuate up to 10^30?
its the safe side, as i said.

A safe side would be higher than that. A safe side would be 10^32 or something like that. Even 10^30 pretty much dwarfs a NIG as it would take 33.3 years for a NIG to match a ZPM.

[thekillman]

A safe side would be higher than that. A safe side would be 10^32 or something like that. Even 10^30 pretty much dwarfs a NIG as it would take 33.3 years for a NIG to match a ZPM.

but then look at the other side: a ZPM is finite. a NIG not. then again, if i had to power my city and had to choose, id take a ZPM, as by the time it depletes, im LONG dead. a NIG not.

also, NIGs arent intended to work alone. a trillion joules a second is impressive. and more than enough, seeing as asgard use buffers on shields. unlike the ancients, who used buffer-less shields giving powerfull shields which deplete your powersource. the nature of the ZPM made such shields formidable. and useless without one.

[Buba uognarf]

but then look at the other side: a ZPM is finite. a NIG not. then again, if i had to power my city and had to choose, id take a ZPM, as by the time it depletes, im LONG dead. a NIG not.

also, NIGs arent intended to work alone. a trillion joules a second is impressive. and more than enough, seeing as asgard use buffers on shields. unlike the ancients, who used buffer-less shields giving powerfull shields which deplete your powersource. the nature of the ZPM made such shields formidable. and useless without one.

I never said a NIG was a bad power source. A ZPM is just so much better. A ZPM may be finite but if you have the means to make more it doesn't matter. With a NIG you'd need years worth of fuel etc...

I think with actual Ancients around to build more stuff etc...the Ancient tech we have now would be far more formidable as it would have support.

[thekillman]

well NIGs are usefull and powerfull. i just dont like the sound of depletable powersources. id have NIGs as backup. and there is no way of knowing how fast ZPM's can be made. probably not very fast, seeing the asuran storyline

[RubberJesus]

Well the show states that zpm's work by drawing vacuum energy from subspace, to my knowledge vacuum energy is the ambient energy that exists after you remove all other matter and energy from a space and there is enough vacuum energy in a square centimeter to boil away all of earths oceans this means that zpm's don't need to be charged as they would come charged.

And we already know what direction earth will take in power generation, really advanced jacked up naquadah generators, in the last man holo-Rodney says the mark XII naquadah generator that powers him could power the atlantis shield but only that which means naquadah generators can at least approach zpm's in power output i'm guessing the mark XII would be about 1/2 a zpm in terms of power output seeing how one zpm can power the city shield and most of the systems, although I really doubt they come anywhere close in power density, Holo-Rod's generator can power the shield for a few hundred years but not the 10,000 the zpm's did

[Mister Oragahn]

who do you think you're talking to? i posted a third of the posts

It was a general "you".

General You! *martial music*

Btw, I'm trying to find the Rising calc that lead to the e28 figure. Anyone knows where to look for?

[Delsana]

Just as an FYI...

You do realize that it was stated when Dr Wier was found in the stasis chamber in Atlantis that when all 3 were used to hold it back, it didn't survive intact long enough, and so she changed the zpm's from going to all 3 at once, to 1 at a time, which made it last a bit longer (and also allowed for the "rising" from the water.

So 10000 / 3 isn't the route for the ZPM's.