What can beat the Andromeda Ascendant?

[Crazy Tom]

Various specs for various sci-fi shows and very fine techincal details are meaningless to me.

Then why bother even reading the thread?

I look at on screen performance, which showcases the 'abilities' of said ship against its rivals.

CGI So the fact that CGI has been so remekably inconsistent fro SGA and later SG is a no never mind to you?

Vorlon mothership,

Powerful gun, but in a spinal arangenment, and it takes a while to turn a 42 kilometer long ship. Time enough fro Andromeda to outmaneuver it.

Daedalus with beams,

Have you...bothered reading th thread...at all?

Victory class destroyer,

Armor not powerful enough to wistand such kinetic force, but it's higly advacend Minbarui jamming and speed of ight "slicer beams" seem impressive.

but of they can hit the ship, whats the pointof a fleet.

You mean if the cant hit it?

thats impossible

I think it's s typo.

[nx01a]

Awaits the inevitable NX-01 claim...thats; not such a bad idea actually.

Rommie'd blow Archer and the NX out of the water. If not for the nova bombs, her armaments really can't scratch Stargate Goa'uld, Tauri, Asgard or Ancient ships. The same goes for Trek ships or ships with energy shielding in general. Nukes work great against B5 ships, so Rommie has a chance against everyone from the Shadows and Vorlons back down to the Narn.

[stargater1990]

the odessy could beat the andromeda by beaming a nuke over and blowing her up.

or they could make a few replicators have them infest her system and disable her and then deactivat them and destroy her.

[titan_hq]

We've already decided that Andromeda's EM counter-measures would prevent beaming nukes over.

[stargater1990]

We've already decided that Andromeda's EM counter-measures would prevent beaming nukes over.

thats why i came up with the rep. solution. in case beaming didint work.

[Alterran1.]

Depends how well replicators fair against nano bots

[Ouroboros]

but of they can hit the ship, whats the pointof a fleet.


thats impossible

The math works out as far as I can tell though I think he may have understated the missile yield. 20 megatons per missile is before you factor in relativistic effects as I remember. With them factored in it's apparently closer to 40 megatons per missile, or 12.8 gigatons per second.

Here's a quote from the episode "The Prince" confirming both the rate of fire and yield in any case

Dylan and Admiral Alexander are in a small conference room, they are sitting down at a small table and there is tea on the table.

[AA] I must say, I do find your proposal intriguing.

[Dylan] So, you’ll keep it in mind?

[AA] You have my word on it.

[Dylan] Thank you, sir.

[AA] So (Getting up from the table and looking at a screen on a wall), how many can she fire again?

[Hologram] Forty missile launchers, each firing eight rounds per second.

[AA] Nineteen thousand, two-hundred rounds per minute. (To Dylan.) At forty mega ton payloads?

[Dylan] Well, give or take. A glorious heritage class cruiser, like the Andromeda could completely depopulate a world like, Ne’Holland in under two minutes. More tea?

Remember to, each one of those is focusing all of that on a cross sectional area the size of a fist.

[Forthestars]

So in a grudge match between B5, Star Trek, and Andromeda ships, who would win?

B5 has weapons that are incredibly destructive, but they are not as maneuverable; unless it is the white star. I say the white star based its blend of weapons and adaptive armor can take on the Andromeda.

Star Trek vessels basically should not be used against Andromeda, because the shields of Star Trek are far to strong and the Iso-ton (their measure of force) yield of a basic photon torpedo traveling at 0.99c might not be a good thing against the Andromeda. Also, all star trek weapons are energy based, so high velocity weapons that can only be dodged with equal speed by Andromeda even at her best. The Breen weapon will cause the Andromeda AI to shut down and nullify that advantage all together. EM jamming and long range strike is all the Andromeda can hope for against Star Trek Vessels; if they can catch a ship or two off guard they might win.

[Orii]

This thread is just... ridiculous. I love how someone decided that that since Andromeda didn't look impressive enough on screen, a "rule" was made stating that only stuff written (fanwank, essentially, just written by a different type of fans) about it was true. Yet the on screen CGI apparently dictates exactly what any ship from any other show is capable of. "The beams move so slowwww!!!!" Funny.

OK, so even allowing for the massive Andromeda ridiculous fanwank, here's my thoughts.

Pretty much anything in the Star Trek universe would be able to take it out. Andromeda looks susceptible to energy based weapons, and all ST weapons appear to be light speed. Dodging would be very difficult. If the Federation really had a problem, then let the Borg handle it... they seem well suited to analyzing and adapting to such maneuvers and developing a firing strategy. Klingons and Romulans can cloak (and Federation too, if they wanted to), and at least the Klingons can fire from cloaked. Andromeda would probably do decent damage to shielded ships eventually, but I think the fight would already be over. And as for the relativistic maneuvering the Andromeda can do... don't forget that ST ships have shown warp-speed evasive tactics... here and there at the same time type stuff.

And I'd say that Odyssey would indeed give Andromeda significant trouble. Shields are probably even more resilient than ST universe shields, so I think they could hang around until a good offensive strategy was developed to hit the uber-maneuverable Andromeda. We've seen other energy weapons in the SG universe that did look much more like ST type light-speed energy weapons. And with an Asgard core, I see no reason why one can't be developed if needed. Not to mention the other cool time-trickery the Asgard core is capable of, or the anti-replicator or Dakara type device the core can build (which wouldn't need to be aimed at all... it's an expanding wave). Perhaps that would offer some offensive advantage. Odyssey can cloak, the Tauri have Merlin's phase shifting technology, we've seen hyperdrive implemented on small fighters which means if needed it could be implemented on some nukes, a ZPM overloaded would make an explosion hard to run from especially if beamed nearby or hyperspaced nearby, etc. Not to mention that in the SG universe there are other ships that were apparently uber powerful as well but not fully explored.

Similar arguments apply for ships from other universes as well.

In short, I think it's just silly to say "this ship is so fast nothing can hit it" (erm, the Enterprise used warp speed maneuverability), "nothing can track it", or "it's rail guns would pummel another ship."

[Orii]

BTW, which is exactly why I think I like BSG more than any other show as far as space ships and battles go. Much, much more realistic, consistent, and believable than any other series. Much less fanwank material involved, and hey... the story is so good it doesn't need it.

[Crazy Tom]

BTW, which is exactly why I think I like BSG more than any other show as far as space ships and battles go. Much, much more realistic, consistent, and believable than any other series. Much less fanwank material involved, and hey... the story is so good it doesn't need it.

Minus the fighters, but the story sort of gloses over that, let me type up a response.

[Crazy Tom]

This thread is just... ridiculous. I love how someone decided that that since Andromeda didn't look impressive enough on screen, a "rule" was made stating that only stuff written (fanwank, essentially, just written by a different type of fans) about it was true. Yet the on screen CGI apparently dictates exactly what any ship from any other show is capable of. "The beams move so slowwww!!!!" Funny.

So teh fact hat Sg CGI has screwed up so many times, is a "no never mind" to you?

Pretty much anything in the Star Trek universe would be able to take it out. Andromeda looks susceptible to energy based weapons, and all ST weapons appear to be light speed. Dodging would be very difficult.

True, but they can't fire phasers in warp speed, which they have to use to utmaneuver the Andromeda, which means they have to use torpedoes, which get shot down. And tehri phasers are not hat powerful, andromeda could take their hits, a fulmerene mesh hull (realy tough carbon) plus compartmentisation, means it can still funstion with severe hull breaches.

If the Federation really had a problem, then let the Borg handle it... they seem well suited to analyzing and adapting to such maneuvers and developing a firing strategy.

Cubes look really slow, federation ships flew circles around them, andromda is way worse. and the thing about their shields that makes thmso powerful is thir "adapting", meaning they don't let any phasers in. Which isn't an issue with Andromeda, alwe need to figure out is how powerful they are in terms of total damage they can take.

Klingons and Romulans can cloak (and Federation too, if they wanted to), and at least the Klingons can fire from cloaked.

Point taken. But it dends whether they can shoot, cloak, and change course dramaticaly enough for andromeda not to be able to "spray" the ares.

And I'd say that Odyssey would indeed give Andromeda significant trouble. Shields are probably even more resilient than ST universe shields, so I think they could hang around until a good offensive strategy was developed to hit the uber-maneuverable Andromeda. We've seen other energy weapons in the SG universe that did look much more like ST type light-speed energy weapons.

The Odisey was rejected already.

And with an Asgard core, I see no reason why one can't be developed if needed. Not to mention the other cool time-trickery the Asgard core is capable of,

Which doesn;t help much, exept give you more time to think about what to do.

or the anti-replicator or Dakara type device the core can build (which wouldn't need to be aimed at all... it's an expanding wave). Perhaps that would offer some offensive advantage.

Andromeda's too complicated, its' not a replicator. It has a lot more stuff.

Odyssey can cloak, the Tauri have Merlin's phase shifting technology, we've seen hyperdrive implemented on small fighters which means if needed it could be implemented on some nukes, a ZPM overloaded would make an explosion hard to run from especially if beamed nearby or hyperspaced nearby, etc. Not to mention that in the SG universe there are other ships that were apparently uber powerful as well but not fully explored.

Odysey doesn't have a ZPM. Merlin's device is on Earth. Even with hyperdrive, a nuke would be shot down, especialy if it had traditoional engines.

[JSPuddlejumper]

Enterprise NX would stand no chance against the Andromeda. NX very weak resistance to damage, a tiny little ship. Weak torpedoes, weak beams.

Enterprise E on the other hand. Oh yeah.

Any beam weapon in any sci-fi show is at or near light speed, no dodging btw.

Andromeda's greatest weakness is the lack of shields, then having a massively powerful main weapon. Nova bombs are useless in close combat.

How is the 304 weak: latest weapons tech from the Asgard and shields. A 304 is able to own anything (except Atlantis) one-on-one in its universe.

Andromeda? Nope, it is not even the most powerful ship in the high guard fleet, Wraith of Achilees is.

[Orii]

So teh fact hat Sg CGI has screwed up so many times, is a "no never mind" to you?

And Andromeda is any different? In fact, it's worse, since apparently the CGI is so far off from what the ship can "really" do that a "rule" had to be implemented to disregard any CGI on Andromeda is not relevant to cannon. Go figure.

True, but they can't fire phasers in warp speed

Don't need to. Andromeda dodges at sublight speeds, which means the Enterprise, a Warbird or Bird of Prey, Borg Cube, or whatever can just sit there, track it, and fire at will with phasers. Why try to match the Andromeda's crazy "dodging" when you have a weapon that when pointed at it and fired, hits it. No brainer, which is why "dodging" like that isn't used in any other sci-fi universe against light speed weapons... only (poorly done and silly) in SG against slower particle beam weapons (like the Ori's).

And tehri phasers are not hat powerful, andromeda could take their hits, a fulmerene mesh hull (realy tough carbon) plus compartmentisation, means it can still funstion with severe hull breaches.

Yeah, now we're totally in the realm of fanwank. It's just silly to try to compare the most powerful main energy weapons from one universe to another and declare that one is "not that powerful." They seem capable of destroying heavily shielded ships, so I think they would be at least somewhat effective against Andromeda's super adamantiumfulmerineorama hull.

Cubes look really slow, federation ships flew circles around them, andromda is way worse.

You don't need to be fast when your weapon front travels at light speed, and there is not much use in "dodging" at sublight if your enemey's do as well. Except for the warp-speed dodging that the Enterprise is capable of, which is something I never saw the Andromeda do.

The Odisey was rejected already.

Yeah, erm, you'll excuse me if I don't accept your opinion as the ultimate authority on that.

Which doesn;t help much, exept give you more time to think about what to do.

Which helps alot, when your computer core and ship have the ability to construct additional weapons (less powerful and older energy based instead of the newer and more powerful but slower particle based).

Andromeda's too complicated, its' not a replicator. It has a lot more stuff.

The point was that there are weapons and technology available that are hardly explored and are at the disposal of the Odyssey. So long as we're in fanwankland, I don't see why that isn't fair game.

Odysey doesn't have a ZPM. Merlin's device is on Earth.

So they fly to earth, beam up the ZPM and Merlin's device (which has probably already been scanned and stored in the Asgard core anyway), and then get back to business.

Even with hyperdrive, a nuke would be shot down, especialy if it had traditoional engines.

Erm, not sure what you're saying here. Hyperdrive are not traditional engines, and while ST universe ships can fire at warp speed (still in classical space-time), SG ships cannot fire in hyperspace (non-classical space-time). While in hyperspace, I don't see Andromeda shooting down a nuke or ZPM or whatever. And as soon as it exits hyperspace (near its target, the Andromeda), it explodes. Very effective weapon. Worked against Anubis, and would probably work against most everyone else except that it would have put a bit of a damper on the "competition" between ships in the show.

[Ouroboros]

This thread is just... ridiculous. I love how someone decided that that since Andromeda didn't look impressive enough on screen, a "rule" was made stating that only stuff written (fanwank, essentially, just written by a different type of fans) about it was true. Yet the on screen CGI apparently dictates exactly what any ship from any other show is capable of. "The beams move so slowwww!!!!" Funny.

The "fanwank" you're talking about was written by the shows tech advisers. People who probably know more about what they're talking about than some FX guy or director who wants it to "be glowier, and more exciting". Just letting the FX guys be the sole determiner of the way the ships interact and behave on a show results in a situation like you have on stargate/trek or any number of shows/movies. Where apparently the only thing anybody can do with all this advanced technology they're supposed to have is sit a few kilometers apart from each other and trade slow moving blobs until one of them explodes. They do this because, even though it's horribly unrealistic and useless in a real fight, it's perceived as more exciting for an audience to watch, much like Luchador style pro wrestling is perceived as more exciting to watch than Brazillian Jujitsu.

The Andromeda dialog/tech material over VFX model is frankly a model that more shows should adopt. It lets you have the realism in the background for the people that care about it but it also lets you have the "wizz! flash! bang! dude did you see that thing blow up!" for the ones that don't.