Auroras Did Average, 304s Did Poorly

[Blitzwing]

I think power of the Aurora's was over estimated. A lot of people seemed to think Aurora's were as powerful as Ori or Asgard ships. But considering we know these ships were defeated by Wraith hives and cruisers in the past, they were never really going to be that powerful. So they performed as expected, in the battle over Asura, in my opinion.

As for the 304's, they performed as expected as well. Rememeber their goal wasn't to destroy the Replicator fleet, it was to enagage, occupy and prevent the Aurora's from escaping so McKay could complete his plan. The 304's were concentating on disabling hyperdrives and engaging as many ships as possible. Destroying them was not the priorty.

The allied fleet was never going to win battle, without McKay's plan, because the Asurans outnumbered them 2:1, so it's no surprise that the Asurans were gaining the upper hand towards the end. But considering only one Travellers ship was lost, the fleet did pretty well.

[jnadreth]

true,true but I believe the Aurora's can be souped up using a ZPM to match an Ori ship so that it can survive long enough to shower the Ori ship with drones.

[peragrin]

Yes the Aurora's did poorly, but not as bad as most people are saying.

The entire replicator fleet was attacked at once. If only half the fleet has been attacked at once then half the fleet would have been able to flee.

the combined fleet though wasn't in the battle to destroy but to weaken shields, weapons, and most importantly hyperdrives. If it takes 10 shots to completely destroy an aurora by asgard beam weapons they can probably disable a ship in 6. The hives were doing the same thing.


Now other than long range sensors which just annoy the hell out of me, the Asuran's should not only have seen this coming but know where atlantis landed(unusual activity near a planet without a stargate an hour after the people your firing at steals one of your ZPM's?). Back on track

The Asuran's were in defensive postition, to protect the planet from another bombardment(the Horizon weapon system anyone?). The drones on the planets surface would have been held back momentarily to target anyone who got close to the planet's surface for a bombing run. The entire battle lasted only 2-3 minutes before the plan came into effect. Even the replicators would need a minute or two to assess and coordinate an offensive assault. As it was the 304's were losing shield strength rapidly and the hives were taking damage.

[umopapisdn]

The 304s were awsome and could do damage, but there were some problems such as the aurora being taken out by darts!?!?!? They didn't do badly though, they still had loads of them left and would probably have won if the battle went on even 1 minute longer, the 304s sheilds were failing, the travelers ships were falling apart and did anyone see the state of those wraith ships? Auroras are still excellent ships even if they didn't do as well as they should have done against asgard weapons.

[Argosy]

Now other than long range sensors which just annoy the hell out of me, the Asuran's should not only have seen this coming but know where atlantis landed(unusual activity near a planet without a stargate an hour after the people your firing at steals one of your ZPM's?). Back on track

A few points here:

*The sensors employed by Lantean style city ships can only detect ships the size of a Wraith hive ship (their Cruiser escorts were not detected by the long range sensors, but rather Shepard/Teyla in a cloaked jumper doing recon “Letters from Pegasus”) in hyperspace, & if I’m not mistaken city ships are below (11km) this size detection threshold (which would explain why the expedition did not detect Asuras the city ship as it approached in “Progeny”)

*Apparently no city ship=no long range sensors sense even with the presence of Hives in the allied fleet they still approached undetected, & were able to achieve total surprise.

However this is the second time they were expecting a response from the surface of Asuras, but did not take fire from any kind of planetary defense systems what so ever.

The first time was understandable (some what) with the Apollo dropping out of hyperspace right on top of the planet in order to deploy Horizon with her dummy warhead decoys incorporated in to it’s MIRV design, & the Apollo’s rapid egress while leaving a cloaked jumper to do battle damage assessment.

Clearly they considered surface weapon emplacements a very real threat (it would seem they overestimated the Asurans) during this first assault on the Asuran home world, but why didn’t they take steps to suppress the armed response from the surface during the second assault? That’s what bugged me a bit. Why would the writer’s even bother mentioning a possible planetary defense grid if they were not going to show them employing such defenses in the episodes they were mentioned?

It would seem to me that the prudent move would have been to launch or beam mark VIII warheads in to orbit over the densely populated Asuran mega-city in order to blind their sensors (“The Siege”prt2), but that nor any other countermeasures were employed to suppress the armed response from the surface that they were expecting.

That and some of the ridiculous technobabble that bordered on self parody in BAMSR was the only thing that left kind of a bad taste in my mouth, though I do think that some have been hypercritical for various reason about this episode.

It was an all around good episode to me though for the most part.

[happyclappy]

the reason the asurans and the auroras failed is that what happened to sensors? Atlantis can pick up ships HOURS away, why couldn't they detect our fleet coming and raise shields prepare for attack....

i quote caldwell form season 2 i believe '' how to i track at ship in hyperspace''. the asurans may have seen the fleet at the meeting point but they wouldnt have known their destination untill they reappeared..

[Vala_M]

A few points here:

*The sensors employed by Lantean style city ships can only detect ships the size of a Wraith hive ship (their Cruiser escorts were not detected by the long range sensors, but rather Shepard/Teyla in a cloaked jumper doing recon “Letters from Pegasus”) in hyperspace, & if I’m not mistaken city ships are below (11km) this size detection threshold (which would explain why the expedition did not detect Asuras the city ship as it approached in “Progeny”)

*Apparently no city ship=no long range sensors sense even with the presence of Hives in the allied fleet they still approached undetected, & were able to achieve total surprise.

However this is the second time they were expecting a response from the surface of Asuras, but did not take fire from any kind of planetary defense systems what so ever.

The first time was understandable (some what) with the Apollo dropping out of hyperspace right on top of the planet in order to deploy Horizon with her dummy warhead decoys incorporated in to it’s MIRV design, & the Apollo’s rapid egress while leaving a cloaked jumper to do battle damage assessment.

Clearly they considered surface weapon emplacements a very real threat (it would seem they overestimated the Asurans) during this first assault on the Asuran home world, but why didn’t they take steps to suppress the armed response from the surface during the second assault? That’s what bugged me a bit. Why would the writer’s even bother mentioning a possible planetary defense grid if they were not going to show them employing such defenses in the episodes they were mentioned?

It would seem to me that the prudent move would have been to launch or beam mark VIII warheads in to orbit over the densely populated Asuran mega-city in order to blind their sensors (“The Siege”prt2), but that nor any other countermeasures were employed to suppress the armed response from the surface that they were expecting.

That and some of the ridiculous technobabble that bordered on self parody in BAMSR was the only thing that left kind of a bad taste in my mouth, though I do think that some have been hypercritical for various reason about this episode.

It was an all around good episode to me though for the most part.

Excellent post!

That is why I love "First Strike" as far as Asuran-centered episodes go. It showed the true power of Asuras (satellite weapon), the Apollo actually being on guard for attacks when dropping out of hyperspace and such. I loved the batte in "Be All My Sins Remember'd" more but it was the inaccuracies that bothered me, all of which you pointed out.

My only explanation about the sensors is what if the Ancients perposely left out sensor technology from the Asurans reach? They didn't see the Ancients coming when they destroyed them the first time around, yes, they still had the directive to not harm the Ancients then but raising the shield wouldn't count as harming the Ancients or anything like that.

Vala,

[JSPuddlejumper]

You must have been watching something else or completely delusional.

304's owned everything in sight.

Aurora's did piss poor: I expected this against Earth ships, but not against Hives and Traveler ships.

BMASR'd showed that the:

Aurora's=overrated.

2 shots kills a Aurora. 7 shots kills a Ori ship.

[Milleniumlance]

im thinking the aurora are no more powerful than Replicator enhanced Hataks...Auroras are 10,000 year old obsolete designs compared to say ONeills and Ori Cruisers and Heavy Beam weapons...all the other races have been building bigger and better designs...

[2ndgenerationalteran]

You must have been watching something else or completely delusional.

304's owned everything in sight.

Aurora's did piss poor: I expected this against Earth ships, but not against Hives and Traveler ships.

BMASR'd showed that the:

Aurora's=overrated.

2 shots kills a Aurora. 7 shots kills a Ori ship.

Give me an instance where a prestine Aurora was taken out in 2 shots. If you try to take up this task, i dont ever expect you coming back because quite frankly there is no such instance.

I already said the Auroras didn't get as many kills as expected, but they did do well defense wise. Especially considering how well you thought the Asgard upgrades to be, a single unshielded ship gives no indication as to how good their shields are. I believe the 304s are overated, and they wouldn't be so if people like you wouldn't lace every thread with your dogma which has almost no reliable evidence. Considering the facts of the episode the Auroras did adequately in defenses, they lost no more than we thought they would (well most of us). But their offensive was weak, i dont deny that.

So your saying you expected 4-5 kills done by a 304 but in actuality only 1 possibly 2 or 3 kills were made by the 304s, and having clearly not reached your expectations they are still god like in your eyes? I would say explain but i dont think i can follow.

[jonos101]

i quote caldwell form season 2 i believe '' how to i track at ship in hyperspace''. the asurans may have seen the fleet at the meeting point but they wouldnt have known their destination untill they reappeared..

if ur quoting the seige part 3 he says " how do i attack a ship in hyperspace

[Ed]

people underestimate the travlere they used tactics attacking 2 to 1 from behind and two volys cripple a sheilded aura takes a few asgard beams to do the same

[Annubis' hitman]

Good post.

I hate when people degrade the ancient technology on the show by saying its crap.

i agree completely.

Green for you!

[mickhhh]

Good post.

I hate when people degrade the ancient technology on the show by saying its crap.

i agree completely.

Green for you!

I hate when people degrade the ancient technology to but i dont think that the Asurans have there the ancients best tech.

[JSPuddlejumper]

^Could be. However, so far as we know, the Asurans had everything the Ancients did, ZPMS to City Ships to Auroras.