Ori Mothership(s) Vs. A Borg Ship(s)

[Buba uognarf]

It doesn't 'look like' torpedoes do any damage to ground targets either. There is never any visible damage caused by torpedoes when they have struck ground targets. No craters of any kind. If you would perhaps be so kind as to show us these various calculations you mention, as well as the name of the TOS episode where the Enterprise was going to lay waste to a world....

Torpedoes have variable yield explained in Enterprise. Go to the site DITL and look at the articles section under Torpedoes.

Sorry for being a little rude earlier btw i was in a bit of a mood.

[darth_timon]

Torpedoes have variable yield explained in Enterprise. Go to the site DITL and look at the articles section under Torpedoes.

Sorry for being a little rude earlier btw i was in a bit of a mood.

Don't worry about it. I was ready to kill my computer earlier!

Whilst variable yield may well be possible with torpedoes, the objective with TDIC was to devastate the Founder home world, and the visual evidence of that destructive doesn't come close to 30% or even 3%. It's reasonable to assume that the bombardment was an all out one, given the objective and the need for speed, and speaking as a Star Trek fan here, it would have been nice to see greater firepower from those ships actually demonstrated.

[Buba uognarf]

Don't worry about it. I was ready to kill my computer earlier!

Whilst variable yield may well be possible with torpedoes, the objective with TDIC was to devastate the Founder home world, and the visual evidence of that destructive doesn't come close to 30% or even 3%. It's reasonable to assume that the bombardment was an all out one, given the objective and the need for speed, and speaking as a Star Trek fan here, it would have been nice to see greater firepower from those ships actually demonstrated.

The episode did show huge explosions which would take terratons to create. We can't tell if 30% was destroyed without looking at ground level but the impact of the weapons was certainly massive to say the least. Far more than anything observed in stargate weapon wise.

[HAL]

Didnt they say the crust took 30% damage ?


If they did then 30% of the planet was destroyer and it was cannon since thats what they said

[Mister Oragahn]

This promises to be funny.
You may wish to start a thread about TDIC in some off-topic forum. :]

[Buba uognarf]

This promises to be funny.
You may wish to start a thread about TDIC in some off-topic forum. :]

lol i never brought it up. I've been refering to completely different instances of torpedo firepower.

But i should point out the Borg have weapons powerful enough to take out star systems!!! In scorpian they proposed such a weapon...

SEVEN: A multikinetic neutronic mine. Five million isoton yield.
TUVOK: An explosion that size could affect an entire star system.
SEVEN: Correct. The shock wave will disperse the nanoprobes over a radius of five light years.

Voyagers torpedoes are 200 isotons. That piece of dialogue shows the Borg have some extremly powerful weapons and does raise the general bar of ST weapon yields.

[SGFerrit]

According to the Star Trek TNG technical manual an average photon torpedo(25 isotons) is equivalent to 64.4Megatons. This was written by the guys who worked on the show. I don't know if you guys already knew that or it helps your arguments at all? A quantum torpedo is said to be about twice that.

" the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual provides information that can be used to calculate this data. A standard Starfleet photon torpedo has a "warhead" containing 1.5 kg of matter and 1.5 kg of anti-matter, and a 25 isoton yield. At 100% efficiency, that amount would produce the equivalent of 64.41 megatons of explosive power. Divide that by 25, and you get 2.6 megatons/isoton. In contrast, the largest nuclear bomb to date had the explosive power of about 50 megatons."

So one Isoton equals about 2.6 megatons.

[Jimbo-DR]

According to the Star Trek TNG technical manual an average photon torpedo(25 isotons) is equivalent to 64.4Megatons. This was written by the guys who worked on the show. I don't know if you guys already knew that or it helps your arguments at all? A quantum torpedo is said to be about twice that.

" the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual provides information that can be used to calculate this data. A standard Starfleet photon torpedo has a "warhead" containing 1.5 kg of matter and 1.5 kg of anti-matter, and a 25 isoton yield. At 100% efficiency, that amount would produce the equivalent of 64.41 megatons of explosive power. Divide that by 25, and you get 2.6 megatons/isoton. In contrast, the largest nuclear bomb to date had the explosive power of about 50 megatons."

So one Isoton equals about 2.6 megatons.

Yea, but the Star Trek technical manual has been wrong on so many simple things I'm not going to trust that unless they got it somewhere canon or have a very explainable way of deducing those figures.
Being that its the same manual which told me that you would have to travel 100000 years at the speed of light to travel only 10000 light years... well I'm skeptical to say the least.

[Col. Shadow Quinn]

That still doesn't change the fact that evidence points to the Goa'uld being far more advanced than the Borg, and that their weapons would rape the Borg extremely quickly.

As far as the cruise speeds go, yes I'm sure that the E-D cruised at 9.6 and that its max safe warp was 9.8(THAT number was only sustainable for short periods of time), and its canon that Voyager cruises at 9.975. Also if you look at the warp charts cruising at 9.975 means you will cross 1000 light years every year of flight. So 10 years to cross 10000 light years. Hence why it would have taken voyager 70 years to get back, they were stranded 70000 light years away.

It is also stated that the Sovereign was designed after the Intrepid and is far more advanced, faster, more powerful, etc. Assuming this is true I'm guessing it wouldn't take it very long to travel only 4 light years.
Remember also that Warp 10 is an unachievable asymptote(save that terrible voyager episode), and that the graph is exponential. AKA Warp 9.8 is WAY faster than warp 9.6.

And heres something else that I just realized doesn't make any sense. If voyager goes 1000 light years in one year at warp 9.975, it goes approximately 2.739726027397260273972602739726(haha) each day. Since warp 9.975 is WAYYYY faster than warp 9.5, we can also assume that it would take WAY longer to go 4 light years at warp 9.5. So any way you look at it, that site is incorrect in its data.

Um, Warp 9.975 is 5551.9c you know. DITL

[Mister Oragahn]

Voyagers torpedoes are 200 isotons. That piece of dialogue shows the Borg have some extremly powerful weapons and does raise the general bar of ST weapon yields.

I fail to see how this talks about super firepower. It just says that it will send the probes with enough kinetic energy so that they'll escape all the gravity wells from that system, and travel over 5 lightyears... which is stupid because there can't be a range for an object that is floating adrift. So it's probably related to how long a nanoprobe can last. Thus we talk about speed, and then initial acceleration over limited amount of time.
That said, the explosion or whatever shoudn't damage the probes, so the explosion can't be that huge.
The piece of dialogue provides the context about the word affect. It's about how far the nanoprobes will be able to work. It doesn't say it can destroy an entire star system. It says it can send those probes fast enough before they probably run out of energy... though they may be able to absorb radiations. I don't know.

[Jimbo-DR]

Um, Warp 9.975 is 5551.9c you know. DITL

According to those charts, yes. But the show is very canon when it says Voyager is stranded 70000 light years away and has a 70 year journey to get back. Thats pretty simple math even for me

[Buba uognarf]

I fail to see how this talks about super firepower. It just says that it will send the probes with enough kinetic energy so that they'll escape all the gravity wells from that system, and travel over 5 lightyears... which is stupid because there can't be a range for an object that is floating adrift. So it's probably related to how long a nanoprobe can last. Thus we talk about speed, and then initial acceleration over limited amount of time.
That said, the explosion or whatever shoudn't damage the probes, so the explosion can't be that huge.
The piece of dialogue provides the context about the word affect. It's about how far the nanoprobes will be able to work. It doesn't say it can destroy an entire star system. It says it can send those probes fast enough before they probably run out of energy... though they may be able to absorb radiations. I don't know.

I the way i see it the mine would spread nano probes over 5 light yearsand still be effective against species 8472 after the 5 light years the nano probes would be spread to thin to have an affect.

4 million isotons! That's like 20,000 times more powerful than a photon torpedo that's obviously very powerful! I never meant to say the mine would destroy a star system but i bet it would destroy a planet seeing as a much weaker 16,879 isoton cardassian dreadnaught can obliterate a small moon.

Despite what you may think it's pretty clear that the Borg have some pretty big weapons you can't escape the fact that they weapons apparently vastly more powerful than anything should in stargate abeit an exploding Z.P.M.

[SGFerrit]

I was just watching First Contact, and it led me to the conclusion that we will never be able to answer questions like this. One minute we see a Borg Cube totally cutting up the Federation fleet, and then the next minute we see a Borg ship firing torpedos at a tiny settlemenet, only causing grenade sized explosions. Continuity in sci fi shows is pretty appauling when it comes to technology IMO. If this was correct, then the Federation fleet would be pathetic, and I don't think that is true. Then again, it is canon

[Buba uognarf]

I was just watching First Contact, and it led me to the conclusion that we will never be able to answer questions like this. One minute we see a Borg Cube totally cutting up the Federation fleet, and then the next minute we see a Borg ship firing torpedos at a tiny settlemenet, only causing grenade sized explosions. Continuity in sci fi shows is pretty appauling when it comes to technology IMO. If this was correct, then the Federation fleet would be pathetic, and I don't think that is true. Then again, it is canon

Obviously the Borg sphere dialed down weapons to only affect the small area being targeted...leveling the entire continent wouldn't accomplish anything.

[SGFerrit]

See, thats what I thought, but then I thought:

Why the hell would they do that? They were there to kill Cochrane and destroy the Phoenix. If they were so smart, they wouldn't have risked missing the Phoenix or Cochrane and would have just blown the entire country away. I am more inclined to believe that was the ordinary damage a torpedo causes, for the reason I have just stated.

But then again, if that is the argument you are going with, then the same can be said about the Ori weapons 'only scorching' the ground in Line in the Sand. Because they only needed to destroy the village. And the beam in First Strike not being able to destroy the asteroid. It was 'tuned' to deplete energy shields above all else, not to cut through asteroids