Ori Mothership(s) Vs. A Borg Ship(s)

[darth_timon]

If we go by the dialogue of TDIC, then we can land some impressive firepower figures- but if we go by the visuals, the effects aren't all that impressive. Reconciling the difference MIGHT be possible but I am certainly not sure how.

[Mister Oragahn]

If we go by the dialogue of TDIC, then we can land some impressive firepower figures- but if we go by the visuals, the effects aren't all that impressive. Reconciling the difference MIGHT be possible but I am certainly not sure how.

I'm fairly sure that it's impossible to reconcile anything. The dialogue is nonsensical, the computer estimations are very bogus, and the visuals show giant ripples occuring at the surface of Chocolate Lake. Seriously, this episode is so FUBAR.

[tendomentis]

What everyone seems to be missing is that the Borg would ALSO go and assimilate US with our new fangled Asgard Ori-killing tech, zpm's, ancient drones, and hyperdrive.

Then you have a Borg SuperCube that fires Borg Drones (I made a funny), can travel in hyperspace (probably faster than anything else can) AND warp/transwarp, has ancient shields, can phase cloak (ala Merlin's device)....you name it. All that tech that we discovered but can't duplicate, odds are the Borg can. The Borg pop by Pegasys and assimilate Atlantis, and then we have a Borg-ified Atlantis flying around.

Then, they assimilate Daniel (oh no's), and rip Merlin's knowledge from his subconscious and adapt to build Sangraal Torpedoes and ZPM Torpedoes.

Then EVERYONE is screwed, ascended or not.

[Buba uognarf]

What everyone seems to be missing is that the Borg would ALSO go and assimilate US with our new fangled Asgard Ori-killing tech, zpm's, ancient drones, and hyperdrive.

Then you have a Borg SuperCube that fires Borg Drones (I made a funny), can travel in hyperspace (probably faster than anything else can) AND warp/transwarp, has ancient shields, can phase cloak (ala Merlin's device)....you name it. All that tech that we discovered but can't duplicate, odds are the Borg can. The Borg pop by Pegasys and assimilate Atlantis, and then we have a Borg-ified Atlantis flying around.

Then, they assimilate Daniel (oh no's), and rip Merlin's knowledge from his subconscious and adapt to build Sangraal Torpedoes and ZPM Torpedoes.

Then EVERYONE is screwed, ascended or not.

dude i think it meant just the Borg vs just the Ori so no outside interference but i did laugh at the idea of Sangraal Topedoes and Z.P.M torpedoes lol

[Jimbo-DR]

What everyone seems to be missing is that the Borg would ALSO go and assimilate US with our new fangled Asgard Ori-killing tech, zpm's, ancient drones, and hyperdrive.

Then you have a Borg SuperCube that fires Borg Drones (I made a funny), can travel in hyperspace (probably faster than anything else can) AND warp/transwarp, has ancient shields, can phase cloak (ala Merlin's device)....you name it. All that tech that we discovered but can't duplicate, odds are the Borg can. The Borg pop by Pegasys and assimilate Atlantis, and then we have a Borg-ified Atlantis flying around.

Then, they assimilate Daniel (oh no's), and rip Merlin's knowledge from his subconscious and adapt to build Sangraal Torpedoes and ZPM Torpedoes.

Then EVERYONE is screwed, ascended or not.

Thats a pretty firm lack of imagination on the ability of the Borg. Just because they can "assimilate" a couple of races from Star Trek doesn't mean ANYTHING to a whole nother race from a different show. The Odyssey is so much more advanced than the Borg Cube its likely they wouldn't even know where to start. And just because in Star Trek the Borg assimilate lots of things doesn't mean they can assimilate anything. There are always limits to power. Its already been discussed at length, and most people seem to agree that the Borg are significantly less advanced/powerful than most of the Stargate races.

[Buba uognarf]

Thats a pretty firm lack of imagination on the ability of the Borg. Just because they can "assimilate" a couple of races from Star Trek doesn't mean ANYTHING to a whole nother race from a different show. The Odyssey is so much more advanced than the Borg Cube its likely they wouldn't even know where to start. And just because in Star Trek the Borg assimilate lots of things doesn't mean they can assimilate anything. There are always limits to power. Its already been discussed at length, and most people seem to agree that the Borg are significantly less advanced/powerful than most of the Stargate races.

I don't think that's true. In propulsion yes the SG universe has the Borg beat without using a transwarp hub but in other areas the borg may well be more advanced and the Borg adaptabilty and numbers would allow them to beat the SG universe.

[PG15]

All the Borg has to do is to assimilate it and the knowledge will start circulating around the collective. The one time that they failed in doing so (species 8472) was because they just couldn't assimilate them.

As long as the technology can be understood by a corporeal being (the Asgard, non-ascended Ancients), the Borg can understand it; there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

[darth_timon]

What everyone seems to be missing is that the Borg would ALSO go and assimilate US with our new fangled Asgard Ori-killing tech, zpm's, ancient drones, and hyperdrive.

Then you have a Borg SuperCube that fires Borg Drones (I made a funny), can travel in hyperspace (probably faster than anything else can) AND warp/transwarp, has ancient shields, can phase cloak (ala Merlin's device)....you name it. All that tech that we discovered but can't duplicate, odds are the Borg can. The Borg pop by Pegasys and assimilate Atlantis, and then we have a Borg-ified Atlantis flying around.

Then, they assimilate Daniel (oh no's), and rip Merlin's knowledge from his subconscious and adapt to build Sangraal Torpedoes and ZPM Torpedoes.

Then EVERYONE is screwed, ascended or not.

Why do people still believe the Borg can assimilate anything and everything, when clearly from the shows they can't?

The Borg couldn't assimilate Species 8472.

In First Contact, despite having assimilated Federation ships in the past AND having been in battle with that fleet for hours, the Borg cube was taking damage. So clearly, you can overwhelm their defences.

There is evidence to suggest that a single Ori ship could inflict nearly as much damage to a cube as that entire fleet, with ONE SINGLE SHOT.

The Borg cannot adapt to raw power.

[PG15]

The Borg couldn't assimilate Species 8472.

That's only because they evolved in a completely different environment and had developed "Super immune systems" that could fight off the Borg nanobots. Their tech couldn't be assimilated because of the same problem.

The Borg has never shown any difficulty assimilating non-biological technology. I mean, if the Ori ships can be accessed by a laptop...the nanobots probably wouldn't face much difficulty.

Now, the Priors, they might be a problem.

[Buba uognarf]

That's only because they evolved in a completely different environment and had developed "Super immune systems" that could fight off the Borg nanobots. Their tech couldn't be assimilated because of the same problem.

The Borg has never shown any difficulty assimilating non-biological technology. I mean, if the Ori ships can be accessed by a laptop...the nanobots probably wouldn't face much difficulty.

Now, the Priors, they might be a problem.

I agree. No reason to suggest the Borg couldn't adapt and assimilate Ori tech if given the chance especially with the Hive mind.

Why do people still believe the Borg can assimilate anything and everything, when clearly from the shows they can't?

The Borg couldn't assimilate Species 8472.

In First Contact, despite having assimilated Federation ships in the past AND having been in battle with that fleet for hours, the Borg cube was taking damage. So clearly, you can overwhelm their defences.

There is evidence to suggest that a single Ori ship could inflict nearly as much damage to a cube as that entire fleet, with ONE SINGLE SHOT.

The Borg cannot adapt to raw power.

That's rubbish imo. A single Ori blast does not have a smuch firepower as an entire fleet. You can overwhelm their defenses but it's hard and once they adapt you'll need several Ori ships to focus on a cube to take it out.

[darth_timon]

That's only because they evolved in a completely different environment and had developed "Super immune systems" that could fight off the Borg nanobots. Their tech couldn't be assimilated because of the same problem.

The Borg has never shown any difficulty assimilating non-biological technology. I mean, if the Ori ships can be accessed by a laptop...the nanobots probably wouldn't face much difficulty.

Now, the Priors, they might be a problem.

Nevertheless, Species 8472 are proof that the Borg cannot assimilate any adversary, and even once they have assimilated enemy ships, said ships can still inflict damage to Borg vessels (Reference, First Contact, the Borg cube had sustained damage to it's hull and was suffering from power fluctuations, even though Federation technology had previously been assimilated by that point).

Power is key here, not the ability to adapt miraculously to anything and everything. Borg power generation has limits and those limits can be overcome with sheer brute force. Borg ships were destroyed by debris from an exploding planet in Scorpion P1, so clearly their defences cannot protect them from everything, and in Dark Frontier P1, Voyager duels on equal terms with a Borg vessel of about equal size, and knocks out it's shields, even though Federation weaponry should be very well known to the Borg by this point!

A single Goa'uld Ha'tak can in one hour dish out more firepower than an assumed Federation fleet of 300 ships all firing all of their torpedoes and all of their torpedoes finding the target. Even if we assume Federation torpedoes are 150 megatons each, and that all of that firepower strikes the Borg Cube, a Goa'uld vessel can still deliver nearly as much firepower in an hour.

300 X 300 (generously assuming both that First Contact involved 300 ships and that every ship had as many as 300 torpedoes, which isn't the case) = 90,000. 90,000 x 150MT = 13.5TT. A Goa'uld Ha'tak, based on my own small calcs, can spit out 8.64TT in an hour. An Ori ship can kill a Goa'uld Ha'tak with one shot, so it's weapons must be even more powerful.

Think about it. If a Goa'uld ship can inflict more than half the firepower on a Borg cube needed to damage it, all by itself, what chance do the Borg have against an enemy that can cut Goa'uld ships to ribbons?

As I said, power is key.

[darth_timon]

I agree. No reason to suggest the Borg couldn't adapt and assimilate Ori tech if given the chance especially with the Hive mind.



That's rubbish imo. A single Ori blast does not have a smuch firepower as an entire fleet. You can overwhelm their defenses but it's hard and once they adapt you'll need several Ori ships to focus on a cube to take it out.

If the Borg could somehow get on board an Ori ship and not get killed by the Prior, then they might possibly stand a chance, but they aren't going to get aboard an Ori ship because they don't have the firepower to breach Ori shields.

If a single Goa'uld blast can take out Federation shields then you can bet Ori weaponry can do the same thing. Federation firepower is measured in megatons at best- Ori firepower can be measured in terms of gigatons, perhaps hundreds of gigatons, an order of magnitude greater.

[Buba uognarf]

If the Borg could somehow get on board an Ori ship and not get killed by the Prior, then they might possibly stand a chance, but they aren't going to get aboard an Ori ship because they don't have the firepower to breach Ori shields.

If a single Goa'uld blast can take out Federation shields then you can bet Ori weaponry can do the same thing. Federation firepower is measured in megatons at best- Ori firepower can be measured in terms of gigatons, perhaps hundreds of gigatons, an order of magnitude greater.

You underestimate federation weapons. Some calculations put Torpedoes in the gigaton range.

Some weapons in Star Trek make SG weapons look like pea shooters and example is a Delta quadrant race who have 1.2m torpedoes capable of making 400km craters!

go to this site http://www.ditl.org/ and look at the weapons section. It's under Druoda warhead.

A Borg cube is easily capable of taking down a Ha'tak and could in time develop enough resistant to handle an OMS with support.

[Mister Oragahn]

You underestimate federation weapons. Some calculations put Torpedoes in the gigaton range.

Very late weapons, yes.

Some weapons in Star Trek make SG weapons look like pea shooters and example is a Delta quadrant race who have 1.2m torpedoes capable of making 400km craters!

One episode wonder. It uses antimatter. There's obviously only a limit on how much energy it can produce.

Did that device wiegh even one ton? because you're going to need far far more than one ton of antimatter to even hope reach the teraton level.

The Chicxulub 180 km wide crater is estimated to be the result of a 100 teraton explosive impact.

It's actually largely possible that this crater, if not the result of a funky chain reaction, might have been the result of an impact at a near c contact velocity, or maybe warp... if that's possible.

A Borg cube is easily capable of taking down a Ha'tak and could in time develop enough resistant to handle an OMS with support.

I'd wish to see evidence for that.

[darth_timon]

You underestimate federation weapons. Some calculations put Torpedoes in the gigaton range.

Some weapons in Star Trek make SG weapons look like pea shooters and example is a Delta quadrant race who have 1.2m torpedoes capable of making 400km craters!

go to this site http://www.ditl.org/ and look at the weapons section. It's under Druoda warhead.

A Borg cube is easily capable of taking down a Ha'tak and could in time develop enough resistant to handle an OMS with support.

A Druoda warhead is not a Federation weapon. It has not been seen on a regular basis, and it flies in the face of far more evidence in favour of at most, multi-megaton weaponry.

Goa'uld and Ori firepower is an order of magnitude greater than Borg firepower. There is just no way for the Borg to win this.