Earth vs. Goa'uld tech.

[VirtualCLD]

Wow, leave this thread for few days and look what it becomes. So not going into religous and political debate, but I would like to point some other things out.

1) I agree with aschen and thirdeyeblind105, the Tollans were wiped out with Ancient tech, which was developed over a course of several (maybe as much as 25 -30) million years, not centuries or millenia.
2) In 2010, I believe the Aschen wiped out the Goa'uld (and the Tok'ra as well) so obviously their "primative" technology was enough to take out the Goa'uld. (I guess no Anubis either, oh well).
3) While I admit technology is advancing pretty quickly over the past century (GO MOORE'S LAW), I don't hink it's exponentially growing, nor is it much faster than are advances in the 1800's or 1700's (and even before that as well). It might have taken us a good 500 - 700 more years just to become as advanced as the Tollans, possibly even more, now that I think about it. Yeah, it would be nice to advance to where the Tollans are in the next 50 - 200 years, but it might take longer than that. Who knows, it maybe we will be that far along come 2200 or 2250, but it's difficult to estimate. Space exploration is very costly and going back to capatilism, there is little capital gain from it. Hopefully we'll be exploring other solar systems first hand within a couple hundred years, but I don't know. Personally, I would like our tech advances to help fix things in this solar system before we leave for others. I'm sure we could still learn a lot by playing in our "own backyard" first.

[Anubis]

You hold some good points about the Aschen. You have certainly done your homework!

[aschen]

Anything with this name in it has gotta be cool.

I'm surprised DJ didn't realize "Oh wait...Aschen in german means 'ashes'... Hm. This might not be such a great idea..."

[Anubis]

lol The name for starts doesn't give off a great sense of touch

[Xevallah]

Yeah but people in this country don't invent things to help others- they do it to make money!

And? What does the intent have to do with anything if the end result is the same? Someone may not want to invent something to help someone but if he knows hell make a fortune off of it, he will make a product that helps people....

[thirdeyeblind105]

over a thousand years, more thn that cause in 500 we'll be enslaved. If it wasnt for openeing the gate we wouldnt know the threat now we come up with ways to end the threat, without knowledge of the threat we dont do much thats why the ancients got killed they were suprised by wraith.

Why would we be enslaved? The only reason the Goa'uld are a threat to us is becase we killed Ra and have shown that our technological capabilities are a threat to them. Without opening the stargate, the Goa'uld wouldn't come to enslave us.

[aschen]

Agreed. The Goa'uld really don't do much to advance themselves until a significant opponent has shown themselves.

[LordAnubis]

You think you're so smart, huh? Well it was Anubis's ship who took down the Tollans, so technically it was Ancient tech., not Goa'uld.

Before you go around acting like a hot shot and mocking people, why don't you think before you type.

You mocked me first. They were not more advanced than the Goa'uld -- period. Kicks dirt at you.

[LordAnubis]

Wow, leave this thread for few days and look what it becomes. So not going into religous and political debate, but I would like to point some other things out.

1) I agree with aschen and thirdeyeblind105, the Tollans were wiped out with Ancient tech, which was developed over a course of several (maybe as much as 25 -30) million years, not centuries or millenia.
2) In 2010, I believe the Aschen wiped out the Goa'uld (and the Tok'ra as well) so obviously their "primative" technology was enough to take out the Goa'uld. (I guess no Anubis either, oh well).
3) While I admit technology is advancing pretty quickly over the past century (GO MOORE'S LAW), I don't hink it's exponentially growing, nor is it much faster than are advances in the 1800's or 1700's (and even before that as well). It might have taken us a good 500 - 700 more years just to become as advanced as the Tollans, possibly even more, now that I think about it. Yeah, it would be nice to advance to where the Tollans are in the next 50 - 200 years, but it might take longer than that. Who knows, it maybe we will be that far along come 2200 or 2250, but it's difficult to estimate. Space exploration is very costly and going back to capatilism, there is little capital gain from it. Hopefully we'll be exploring other solar systems first hand within a couple hundred years, but I don't know. Personally, I would like our tech advances to help fix things in this solar system before we leave for others. I'm sure we could still learn a lot by playing in our "own backyard" first.

2010 was a hypothetical, what-if, future story; it never really happened after they set things straight. So, I doubt the Aschen defeated the Goa'uld. If the Tollans were so advanced, why didn't they wipe out the Goa'uld before, and why would the Gou'ald (before Anubis), bother or disturb the Tolans? (See "Pretense").

[aschen]

And? What does the intent have to do with anything if the end result is the same? Someone may not want to invent something to help someone but if he knows hell make a fortune off of it, he will make a product that helps people....

AND? The things people make for almost always for strictly lucrative purposes. Half the time they're made just to pacify the average person. I look at the our world, and especially the US as one fat greedy pig who's entire existance is based upon pacification and consumation.

Isn't that a bit of a loop in terms of progress?

[VirtualCLD]

2010 was a hypothetical, what-if, future story; it never really happened after they set things straight. So, I doubt the Aschen defeated the Goa'uld. If the Tollans were so advanced, why didn't they wipe out the Goa'uld before, and why would the Gou'ald (before Anubis), bother or disturb the Tolans? (See "Pretense").

SPOILERS 2010





Ah, but it did happen. It had to have happened inorder for SG-1 to get the note in the first place. In fact, it still does exist!! This is due to the fact that we know there is an infinite number of parallel universes based on the different decisions and choices made int he Stargate universe (see episodes about the Quantum Mirror thingy). As a result, the Aschen Earth still exists in another universe, but the 2010 SG-1 just spawned an alternate timeline by throwing the note through the gate.

(Is it me, or does anyone else have a problem with 1969 where they had to "preserve the timeline at all costs no matter WHAT!!!" and then in 2010 their like "Ah, f*** it! What have we got to lose?"... I think I answered my own question.)

[aschen]

Good point. I guess when it's serious enough you gotta change the course of your given human history!

[thirdeyeblind105]

You mocked me first. They were not more advanced than the Goa'uld -- period. Kicks dirt at you.

Lord Anubis, how can you say that the Tollan were never more advanced than the Goa'uld, even before Anubis? The Tollan didn't destroy the Goa'uld because its not in their nature. They're relatively peaceful and they never felt threatened by the Goa'uld. The whole situation in pretense would never have happened if it weren't for the arrogant nature of the Tollan, who believed that nothing could destroy them, especially a technologically inferior race. Also note that one ion cannon was able to fend off the Goa'uld attack in that episode. In fact, there's really no evidence in the entire serires that points towards the Goa'uld being more advanced than the Tollan (until Anubis of course).

[aschen]

Lord Anubis, how can you say that the Tollan were never more advanced than the Goa'uld, even before Anubis? The Tollan didn't destroy the Goa'uld because its not in their nature.

Because he wanted to try prove people wrong, but in the end it backfired.

[LordAnubis]

Lord Anubis, how can you say that the Tollan were never more advanced than the Goa'uld, even before Anubis? The Tollan didn't destroy the Goa'uld because its not in their nature. They're relatively peaceful and they never felt threatened by the Goa'uld. The whole situation in pretense would never have happened if it weren't for the arrogant nature of the Tollan, who believed that nothing could destroy them, especially a technologically inferior race. Also note that one ion cannon was able to fend off the Goa'uld attack in that episode. In fact, there's really no evidence in the entire serires that points towards the Goa'uld being more advanced than the Tollan (until Anubis of course).

It's hard to say for sure, I know what you're saying, but in all honesty, wasn't it the Goa'uld who brought the Tollan to their planet. I forget if they ever said if the Tollan are transplants from Earth, or maybe they were part of the Ancient seeding...does anyone know?

Sorry for being pissy -- I've been sorta on edge last few days. I'm sorry aschen, please forgive me dude. I never wanted to prove anyone wrong, I just really thought I was right. In the end, the Tollan were destroyed by the Goa'uld, but I didn't think their level of advancement was that different (not by much at least).

What gets me is that Carter said the Tollan's tech was too advanced for her to retro-engineer, yet the Goa'uld retro engineered Ancient tech and so did we (or figure some of it out). Ancient tech is superior to all other tech, so if we and the Goau'ld can deceipher ancient tech, why can't we or the goa'uld decipher and retroengineer Tollan tech? Any ideas?

I have no clue about the Aschen, but i know in the one episode (spoiler)...it said that they travelled by ship, not gates, and they were confined to their star system, which sorta implied, but was not definite, that they didn't have FTL tech like the Goa'uld, that is why I was surprised that the defeated the Goa'uld in 2010. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I don't think they had hyperdrive or FTL, but who knows? They sure had bio tech, that's for sure, so maybe Aschen bio tech wiped out the goa'uld in that episode.