Earth vs. Goa'uld tech.

[Iki-Ryo]

I doubt the Goa'uld have advanced much, if at all, since they came into power. They haven't needed to until now. The only civilization that could have challanged them they have a treaty with. Unfortunately for them, Earth rocks

That is completely untrue, Apophis ships were more advanced than the Pryimid ship from the Movie, Later Sokar developed a method to cloak goa'uld motherships that had been previously impossible as pointed out by Jakob Carter/Selmac when Apophis destroyed Heru'ur (apophis having gaind the technology after killing sokar) Nirrti developed personal cloaking technology that was not possesed by other system lords, they system lords have been at war with eachother for along time until recently when they joined forces so technological advances were not shared and are probably still not completely disclosed to rival lords

[aschen]

Indeed. The Tok'Ra will always have a decisive disadvantage to the Goa'uld...and that just proves it.

[LordAnubis]

First off, pure capitalism without regulations is absolutely terrible, but the mix of capitalism with a little bit of socialism works as good or if not better than any other system of economics. Bottom line, people need incentive to make better products, so how is capitalism not good for advances? Just look at the new space race going on here.

Secondly, it's difficult to make comparisons between Tollan, Aschen and us. We don't know how much more advanced they are than the goa'uld, so while they may be about 800 years ahead of us, they could easily be 500 years more advanced than the goa'uld. And it's also difficult to say how fast they advanced technologically. There are a lot of people here on earth, most likely more than on any other planet, which means we theoretically have the edge as far as technoloigical growth (more people=more circulation of ideas+more progress).

Neither the Tollan or Aschen are more advanced than teh Goa'uld; it was the Goa'uld who brought the Tolan to their world from Earth, so they are more advanced than the Tollan.

The main factor in our lack of development is religion; religion and mysticism (See Ayn Rand) have kept up backwards, primitive, and dull. This planet is populated by morons who pray to Jesus (Mohummed, Satan, Zeus, or whoever) every night rather than use their brains. Just walk in any grocery store, at any time of night (especially in the US, in Wal-mart), and you'll see that the great majority of ppl are preoccupied with earning money to make ends meet, working dull jobs, and praying to non-existent or apathetic gods, that it's pretty damned amazing we even have the tech that we do have.

Also, capitalism is good in most aspects, but the market economy directs us toward development. Right now, telecommunications is the area of tech that's developing, not space tech. If you put a profit on space tech, it will take off. Right now, where's the profit in going to the moon, Mars, or Pegasus? There is no profit for us to lift a finger and explore space at this point in time. If you make it profitable, and take it out of the hands of gov't, we could advance quite rapidly.

Also, the Goa'uld are many thousands of years ahead of us. If we did not have the gate, who knows how long it woudl take to catch up, but there's a good chance that by the time we got to where the Goa'uld are now, they would have advanced some or a lot.

[aschen]

The Tollan were taken from Earth in a primitive state. Remember, they did eventually destroy the Goa'uld and wound up having a weapon that was capable of destroying an entire Goa'uld mothership.

You're half right, in my opinion, with the religion thing. As a christian, I can see where some of the weak minded can and have fallen prey to crud like catholic dogma. The inclusion of a belief should never affect the progress of a society. That's one of the reasons why in the US there exists the illusion of the seperation of church and state.

One's faith should not be a consuming matter, and neither (as you said) should their jobs be. The "real world" exists outside of your employment, and lies in personal and technological progress.

[aeroe]

LordAnubis,

I'm not sure why shallow insults to religious or spiritual people are required just to make a point. I myself am Agnostic, but I don't go out of my way just to degrade others who do not share my own beliefs.

[cobraR478]

That is completely untrue, Apophis ships were more advanced than the Pryimid ship from the Movie, Later Sokar developed a method to cloak goa'uld motherships that had been previously impossible as pointed out by Jakob Carter/Selmac when Apophis destroyed Heru'ur (apophis having gaind the technology after killing sokar) Nirrti developed personal cloaking technology that was not possesed by other system lords, they system lords have been at war with eachother for along time until recently when they joined forces so technological advances were not shared and are probably still not completely disclosed to rival lords

Other than Apophis' ships, all of that stuff was developed after the Tau'ri reopened the gate. I believe that I said something along the lines of "up until now" in my post which was meant to infer the return of a group of humans with the ability and willingness to battle the Goa'uld.

EDIT: Also, there is no proof that they didn't just run across some of those devices on some planets.

[Vyse]

While we still make progress during peace time, and it is nowhere near as fast as when we are at war. The huge flaw with capitalism is that money can buy you anything, including the government, and I mean both parties (Dennis Kucinich is an exception, that's why you never heard about him in the primary race). Big Business buys politicians who need money to get elected, etc.. . Corporations own the media, and the government, and if we are not careful, the entire internet as well. I hope for a system similar to the Federation in Star Trek, you still have elected officials, but there is no money in society, money is the root of all evil. As Picard said " The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity". That's as close to paradise we will ever get, DS9 greatly explored the flaws in the system, but there are much less when compared to our capitalist, religious society. People can be religious, that's fine. But alot of very religious people don't quite understand the outstanding concept of sepereation of church and state. This is shown by the recent attempt to furhter precent the homosexual community equal rights, the belief is founded in religion. In order to create a great world with tech that could rival the Goa'uld technology would be to get rid of our greediness as a species, and completely seperate religion from government. (Damn I think about this stuff too much!)

[LordAnubis]

LordAnubis,

I'm not sure why shallow insults to religious or spiritual people are required just to make a point. I myself am Agnostic, but I don't go out of my way just to degrade others who do not share my own beliefs.

That is why you should worship me, your only true god.
I meant no offense, but religion has kept us backwards. Remember, there is a difference between religion, another form of politics as Marx said, and faith. There is nothing wrong in believing in a greater good, or having faith in something that is "above" us, figuratively and literally. However, to put your faith in a book (Bible), written by primitive humans with little or no concept of modern science, and bank on the riches of the aferlife is not only illogical, but wasteful insofar as life is wasted on anticipation of death and what lies beyond. You spend your waking hours following a prescribed lifestyle devoid of happiness and meaning in hopes that you'll be rewarded after you've "died".

Also, the great religions have done everything possible to keep humanity backwards. Instead of advancing science, science and innovation were often viewed as witchcraft, heresy, and devilry. Innovators were often killed for being heretics and witches. Religion is not faith in God; religion is merely another form of politics -- one group of people controlling another.

If you think about it, in many ways, the religions of Earth are similar to the Jaffa-Goa'uld "religion" in that we let a "learned" group of others tell us what God is and what God means. The Pope, while a good guy, is sorta like a benevalent Goa'uld; he is a living God who thinks he has more insight into what life means because he doesn't have sex, wears a funny hat, and has read the Bible a lot more than most of us. That makes him an expert on the world beyond how? Or Islamic religious fanatics who think the Koran speaks to them and tells to kill innocent people so that there will be rewards galore in heaven with Allah? It's politics, no more, no less. In normal politics, money and power are the driving forces to acquire more power and more wealth. In religion, "God", guilt, and keeping the followers compliant and dumb are the driving forces in acquiring power and wealth -- or just power.

Not all religions are evil or power hungry, and I don't mean to imply that, but if you look at the history of many religions, like Christianity, you will see that we humans have a pattern and practice of becoming corrupt despite our best original intentions. The path to faith and healing often ends up a bloody one.

If we examine our history as a civilization and subtract the major religious movements, we would most likely have attained an extremely advanced level of technology by now -- maybe equal to that of the Tollans.

I also believe that the acquisition of wealth and the tedium of everyday existence has kept us dull and primitive. Why? Well, if we didn't have to go off to work everyday, in order to earn money to eat, drink, drive, etc., we wouldnt be wasting our time dealing with irate customers, serving up fast food, chaning someone else's oil, or doing other mundane things. Instead, we could devote our time to exploring our intellectual interests and using our full mental and physical energies to better our society. Well, at least some of us would. Instead of becoming self-actualized, like the ancients, we live dull, boring, monotonous lives trying to earn enough money to live while others around us seek to take what we have and keep it for themselves.

Before we enter these lives, we spend a lot of time in school learning things that others tell us have meaning, not letting us choose what we wish to study (formally) until college, and then, we still have to follow a prescribed course that includes liberal arts requirements, etc. Once we finish college, some go on for more schooling, others go right into the world of work. To what end? Some have families and end up living a typical suburban life, while only a very few of us end up doing something we really love and enjoy.

How many people out there really end up doing what they love to do and get paid well doing it? Daniel loved his job, but was dirt poor until Dr. Langford brought him on board. O'Neill was almost suicidal and lost his will to live before Gen. West ordered him to Cheyenne Mountain before the Abydos mission. Dr. Carter was trying to make meaning out of her life before the Gate project. My point is, not many of us find happiness, meaning, and fulfillment in our lives. The lust for money, our current way of life, and religion are primarily to blame.

Just imagine how life would be if we lived like the Asgard, Nox, or Ancients? Hell, even living as a Goa'uld! Think about what we could do with our minds and our abilities if we were not encumbered by going to lame jobs, going to classes that do not challenge us, and being a slave to the mighty dollar/pound/Euro/whatever currency.

If you want to find God, look in your wallet -- God is green (or whatever colour pounds and euros and rubels and dinars are); he is organized in denominations, and God (money) makes the Earth go around. It's almost hypocrisy to say we have faith in a real God, because our actions don't seem to support that notion.

That was my point. If you're offended, I'm sorry. It's only my opinion. And as your true God, it is also your opinion now, human!

[Rhydderch Hael]

Well see technology advances only as fast as well as the society developing it functions. Here on Earth, well it's a huge mess. Everything takes forever and our society has no direction. So, I guess 100 would be sufficient.

Unity breeds complacency. Strife brings about innovation. You find comfort sitting among those you agree with. You find growth standing against those you don't.

And if Neccessity is the Mother of Invention, then War is Neccessity².

[Metonic]

over a thousand years, more thn that cause in 500 we'll be enslaved. If it wasnt for openeing the gate we wouldnt know the threat now we come up with ways to end the threat, without knowledge of the threat we dont do much thats why the ancients got killed they were suprised by wraith.

[Torley]

Uhhh... before we get into any sort of a jihad here and start trampling on each other's religious beliefs, I do believe that faith (religious or spiritual or whatever) has its place and science has its place. Science is a tool that cannot fully explain many things we would like it to. It's important that we not be scared of science, and more importantly, more people believe in its ability -- as used by human beings -- to help us discover new things about ourselves and the world around us. There have been many superstitious fools caught up in quackery before like the Luddites who basically hated the computers of their day, as crude automatons as they seem to be to us now. Change of any kind always causes an unheaval of sorts and the lines of conflict are drawn between humans. Science doesn't go out and bomb people. People do that, just like a hammer can be used to assemble a house, or alternatively, pound a neighbor's skull in a la Stephen King.

There are too many false myths going on about risks involving things such as genetics stem cell research and cloning, two topics that have of course come up in philosophical (and more) ways on Stargate SG-1, among a number of other topics. There are also many fallacies being propogated via something known as "email chain letter" to warn people of urban legends in this day that should be more readily debunked (by a site such as snopes.com), but are not. And among us of course walk many fearmongers and charlatans, not to mention politicians who answer to money (more often than they'd like to admit -- I admire Donald Trump because at least he admits to money as a way of keeping score!) and want to sway large blocs of voters because of their religious beliefs, whatever they may be.

The point being, a lot of people argue by basically quoting words out of books and bashing each other over the head about it. I do think it keeps people back and prevents them from fully embracing technological change and the accelerative thrust that luminaries like Alvin and Heidi Toffler are such progressive advocates of. But... humans are like that.

Real faith always remains -- those who are secure in it always have to realize that -- but we have the ability to do so much more within our grasp right now, and we never will because of people who are insecure, afraid, and ignorant of science.

Tying this into the Goa'uld, as they have used false religion for many years to bring about their aims for feudal warring and intergalactic conquest, their scientific progress has been greatly diminished. What inroads they have made are the result of scavenging the work of others and trying to reverse-engineer it (i.e. Anubis, the episode Double Jeopardy). They can learn from the past (The Ancients) but have little new to offer, and so they rely on continually plundering the databanks of history in an effort to keep on waging war.

One of SG-1's standing orders, of course, is to acquire new alien technology for Earth. There is a great emphasis on scientific scrutiny on the show, but a lot of personal faith too and tales of loyal friendship and courage despite internal team conflicts at times. I am not surprised, and this is part of why I enjoy Stargate SG-1.

[LordAnubis]

The Tollan were taken from Earth in a primitive state. Remember, they did eventually destroy the Goa'uld and wound up having a weapon that was capable of destroying an entire Goa'uld mothership.

You're half right, in my opinion, with the religion thing. As a christian, I can see where some of the weak minded can and have fallen prey to crud like catholic dogma. The inclusion of a belief should never affect the progress of a society. That's one of the reasons why in the US there exists the illusion of the seperation of church and state.

One's faith should not be a consuming matter, and neither (as you said) should their jobs be. The "real world" exists outside of your employment, and lies in personal and technological progress.

Hmm, wasn't it the Goa'uld who destroyed the Tollans? Yep, it was...so like, they were really advanced, right? Heh, no!

[thirdeyeblind105]

Hmm, wasn't it the Goa'uld who destroyed the Tollans? Yep, it was...so like, they were really advanced, right? Heh, no!

The Tollan were destroyed by Anubis' ancient technology, not by Goa'uld tech. Before Anubis, the Tollan were far superior to the Goa'uld and had ion cannons that could shoot down motherships in orbit.

[aschen]

Hmm, wasn't it the Goa'uld who destroyed the Tollans? Yep, it was...so like, they were really advanced, right? Heh, no!

You think you're so smart, huh? Well it was Anubis's ship who took down the Tollans, so technically it was Ancient tech., not Goa'uld.

Before you go around acting like a hot shot and mocking people, why don't you think before you type.

[aschen]

The Tollan were destroyed by Anubis' ancient technology, not by Goa'uld tech. Before Anubis, the Tollan were far superior to the Goa'uld and had ion cannons that could shoot down motherships in orbit.

*kicks dirt at you* I was about to type that!