The Sci. & Tech. Concordance and Discussion Thread

[Seastallion]

To continue on with the Hyperspace portion of this discussion...

I've showed essentially what is happening to form the Hyperspace window, now I'm going to try and explain what happens inside of hyperspace itself. As before, I'm going to try and use illustrations to make my points.

My first drawing uses Hypercubes to show what happens when one is traveling in hyperspace as opposed to normal space. Keep in mind the drawings are merely rough representations, not an exact science.



Hopefully this will show you that the distance traveled in one HyperBlock is equal to that of the Normal blocks, despite the relative size difference. However the relative distance covered while traveling through the Hyperblocks is far greater. This is because that while 2 of the dimensions are expanded outwards, the 3rd dimension and Time are compressed inward, like so.



Imagine the blocks being made of rubber. When you expand it outwards, there must be a trade off. That is that the thickness of the block must become thinner. Again, this an analogy, but it is effective in showing what happens within Hyperspace.

I'll stop here for the moment. Any questions or comments so far?

[immhotep]

I think im understanding this correctly; your saying that a hyperspace window is a tunnel through parts of another dimention (hyperspace) in which time and space are compressed making the actualy distance traveled whilst in hyperspace disproportionate to distance you travel in real space/time: you travel the same distance but have gone further in reality.

[Seastallion]

I think im understanding this correctly; your saying that a hyperspace window is a tunnel through parts of another dimention (hyperspace) in which time and space are compressed making the actualy distance traveled whilst in hyperspace disproportionate to distance you travel in real space/time: you travel the same distance but have gone further in reality.

Pretty much..! Except it would be more accurate to say that you are in fact moving through another layer of space, than another dimension exactly. Also the Hyper Corridor you are travelling through is generated by your ship, and if for any reason it stops, your ship is thrown back into normal space as a result of the natural contours of space-time. It is the Hyperdrive that is warping the fabric of space to allow the ship to move into another layer of space (sometimes called slip-space, sub-space, hyper-space, etc.), but the Hyperdrive also keeps the ship in hyperspace. When the hyperdrive shuts down, the threads of space-time return to their natural state. It is sort of like pushing two threads apart, to make room for yourself.



When the Hyperdrive shuts down, the threads return to their normal state, and 'push' the ship back into normal space.

[_Owen_]

Actually that sounds very similar to how I envision and describe hyperspace, I'm not going to go in search of my posts but they are around here. Bassically there are many different layers of hyperspace and each gets progressively smaller, but is stretched to fit a "universal template" When you enter hyperspace you are allowed to remain the size you are in the regular universe because your hyperdrive creates a bubble of space-time around your ship. Really the only difference between our ideas is that your suggests that your hyperdrive will create a hyperspace cooridoor, which albeit, does sounds very cool, and mine suggests that hyperspace is always there. The only additions to my theory that I don't think you have mentioned yet in yours is that the hyperdrive only does two things, it creates a hyperspace window and maintains a hyperspace bubble, it doesn't actually propel you through hyperspace your sublight engines do that. This is a form of faster than light travel that I like to call RFTL Relative Faster Than Light Travel, because in proportion to the layer of space you occupy you are always moving a subluminal speeds but if you caluclate your speed using the distance crossed in our universe divided by the time elapsed it is possible to have a "relative speed" which is superluminal (< I like that word too.)

That's cool we both managed to come up with similar things but separately.

[immhotep]

How would this then explain the tracking of hyperspace windows and more importnatly, how some when the oniel exploded in hyperspace the explosion traveled and took out the replicators, wouldnt the explosion of reverted to more space time, becuase there was no engine keeping it open?

Also How would you explain that different engines create different colours of hyperspace window; asgard is aqua, goauld is blue, ancient is a kinda orange , based on that the mod'ed teltak was orange ?

[Wraith Scientist]

Hello again everyone
This is such a great thread

Nice ideas Seastallion. Space does seem to be very stringy and foamy on many levels. Funnily enough, that is similar to how slipspace travel is descrived in Halo:

To enter slipspace a ship had to be well away from strong gravitational fields. Gravity distorted the superfine pattern of quantum filaments through which Cortana had to compute a path ... The UNSC Shaw-Fujikawa Slipspace generators ripped a hole in normal space by brute force. But the Covenant technology used a different approach ... The Covenant could pick a path through the subatomic dimansions; a gentle push from their generators enlarged the fields just enough to allow their ships to pass seamlessly into alternate space with minimal energy
- First Strike

[Seastallion]

Actually that sounds very similar to how I envision and describe hyperspace, I'm not going to go in search of my posts but they are around here. Bassically there are many different layers of hyperspace and each gets progressively smaller, but is stretched to fit a "universal template"

Actually in my idea, Hyperspace is just another layer of our space-time continuum but it is stretched and warped, out of its normal state.

When you enter hyperspace you are allowed to remain the size you are in the regular universe because your hyperdrive creates a bubble of space-time around your ship. Really the only difference between our ideas is that your suggests that your hyperdrive will create a hyperspace cooridoor, which albeit, does sounds very cool, and mine suggests that hyperspace is always there.

Actually, the way I have it, Hyperspace is always there, but it exist on such an infinitesimal scale, it can't normally be accessed by macroscopic objects. The Hyperdrive emits a powerful anti-gravitational field into a small area of space, forcing the threads of space-time to part, creating a rift between the normal layer of space and the sub-layer of space (subspace). The anti-gravitational field warps the space in front of the ship (the hyperspace corridor) creating a gravity well, pulling the ship towards it. During that time, the sublight engines are on stand-by so that they can be used immediately upon re-entry into normal space.

The only additions to my theory that I don't think you have mentioned yet in yours is that the hyperdrive only does two things, it creates a hyperspace window and maintains a hyperspace bubble, it doesn't actually propel you through hyperspace your sublight engines do that.

Yeah, my hyperdrive does both of those things, PLUS propel the ship. It can actually be used in normal space at lower power to decrease the acceleration time with the sublight engines. It works in addition to the sublight engines by creating a gravity well in front of the ship (just not strong enough to create a hyperspace window), so that the ship seems to 'fall' forward. With the sublight engines causing the ship to 'fall' even faster by increasing its terminal velocity. When the ship is falling towards a planet it reaches a terminal velocity, unless otherwise aided by greater mass, or something additional propelling the ship downwards. This is what the ship does when using the Hyperdrive to supplement the sublight engines. Actually, Goa'uld Al'Kesh to the same thing too.

This is a form of faster than light travel that I like to call RFTL Relative Faster Than Light Travel, because in proportion to the layer of space you occupy you are always moving a subluminal speeds but if you caluclate your speed using the distance crossed in our universe divided by the time elapsed it is possible to have a "relative speed" which is superluminal (< I like that word too.)

That's cool we both managed to come up with similar things but separately.

That is pretty much how my idea of a hyperdrive works as well. There are minor differences, but close enough.

[Seastallion]

How would this then explain the tracking of hyperspace windows and more importnatly, how some when the oniel exploded in hyperspace the explosion traveled and took out the replicators, wouldnt the explosion of reverted to more space time, becuase there was no engine keeping it open?

Also How would you explain that different engines create different colours of hyperspace window; asgard is aqua, goauld is blue, ancient is a kinda orange , based on that the mod'ed teltak was orange ?

Hyperspace windows are trackable for two reasons. Gravitational Distortions of the local space-time, AND visual evidence because the Hyperspace Window releases an energy burst, in the form of visible light. There were two reasons the destruction of the O'Neill was able to destroy the Replicator ships. First, the Replicator ships were keeping the Hyperspace Corridor open themselves, so it didn't collapse leaving them exposed to the incredibly powerful explosion from the O'Neill. Secondly, an explosion that powerful would disrupt even hyperspace, not to mention destroying most objects in real space as well. Remember, Hyperspace is just another layer of Normal space, not an entirely seperate dimension from which nothing effects the other. That is why gravity waves were able to effect the Power Buffer on the Prometheus. One layer of space can effect the other.

The different light variations might be explained by the spectrum of energy being used to create the hyperspace corridors. The anti-gravitons being emitted by ships have different frequencies, thus different photon spectrum releases. I hope that makes sense.

[Seastallion]

Hello again everyone
This is such a great thread

Nice ideas Seastallion. Space does seem to be very stringy and foamy on many levels. Funnily enough, that is similar to how slipspace travel is descrived in Halo:

To enter slipspace a ship had to be well away from strong gravitational fields. Gravity distorted the superfine pattern of quantum filaments through which Cortana had to compute a path ... The UNSC Shaw-Fujikawa Slipspace generators ripped a hole in normal space by brute force. But the Covenant technology used a different approach ... The Covenant could pick a path through the subatomic dimansions; a gentle push from their generators enlarged the fields just enough to allow their ships to pass seamlessly into alternate space with minimal energy
- First Strike

Thanks Wraith..! Welcome back. I like the Halo quotation! It describes my thoughts on the matter very well. Hyperdrives work through finesse, rather than brute force. They can do this because they manipulate the force of gravity in such a way as it isn't used in its natural state.

[immhotep]

Hey a question, THe power nodes seen in SGA were said to be the equivalent of a micro ZPM, meant for long term powering of space gates...and i just rewatched fifth race; What if the device jack made was a powernode for the stargate, like the SGA one cept this one was meant for one huge 8 cheveron power boost rather than long term use with 7 cheverons. or just was a powernode that could be used long term or for one extra boost...
Personally i think those powernodes would be a great way to get us a new power source, beam up a stargate and detact the nodes then study them.

[Seastallion]

Hey a question, THe power nodes seen in SGA were said to be the equivalent of a micro ZPM, meant for long term powering of space gates...and i just rewatched fifth race; What if the device jack made was a powernode for the stargate, like the SGA one cept this one was meant for one huge 8 cheveron power boost rather than long term use with 7 cheverons. or just was a powernode that could be used long term or for one extra boost...
Personally i think those powernodes would be a great way to get us a new power source, beam up a stargate and detact the nodes then study them.

Hmm. I'm not sure. Seems like a plausible possibility. Although, keep in mind, they may not power the gate at all (except for keeping it in a stable position). I'm reasonably sure that the onboard DHD in the Puddle Jumpers (or the Darts) transmit power to the stargates, just like regular DHD's do. (Notice that DHD's don't have a physical connection to stargates, rather they transmit the energy necessary directly to the gates by means of some sort of energy beam (maybe a microwave transmission or something similiar?). Even so, they could provide valuable information even if they don't actually power the stargate.

[_Owen_]

Not sure where to start, other than where we left off so, I'll try to get to everything. First in response to Seastallion's post. Our idea's sound similar the only problem is you said that the hyperspace cooridors would be formed by a strong antigravity field that would warp space-time, technically a strong antigravity field is a warp in space-time, or an antiwarp, whatever you want to call it. You you are saything that space-time causes hyperspace-time to be what it is, and I would have to disagree with you.

Now in response to immhotep about the different colours, my idea does take ti to another "level" (you'll get the joke later) and explains the different colour windows.

My idea says that hyperspace get's progressively and progressively smaller, layer after layer the volume of the universe decreases, and as the universe get's smaller the faster you can go because the bigger you would be relative to the universe, and the further you can travel in less time. Different hyperdrives allow transit at different relative speeds therefore, the must access different layers of hyperspace, the more advanced the hyperdrive the deeper it can penetrate. That is another difference between my idea and Seastallion's, perhaps in Seastallions different hyperspace cooridors could allow different relative speeds.

The only other thing that I don't agree with is that when your hyperdrive deactivates you are automatically pushed back into regular space. I believe you would stay in hyperspace until you left. let's say your hyperdrive just shut down, what would happen is the space-time buble around your ship would disapear and you would shrink to fit the scale of the hyperspace layer, to exit you would just have to reactivate your hyperdrive like you were in normal space and it would open a hyperspace window back to regular space an then you just shut your stuff down again. The only reason someone would be pushed back into regular space is if the hyperdrive had failsafes that automatically opened hyperspace windows when the drives were dying.

One question for Seastallion, if you can simply access hyperspace by separating these threads, then how would you access different layers of hyperspace or cooridoors, I think we must agree that there need to be different layers or corridoors as we have seen a vast range in possible hyperspace travel.

[Wraith Scientist]

Hey Seastallion, here's a thread for your compendium. I've posted a description of how a Stargate works and why you can't go through an incoming wormhole.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26689

[_Owen_]

Bravo Wriath Scientist, you pretty much have it right, and your used the word dematerialization correctly.

[immhotep]

i love the phrase: "interdimentional holding Zone - like the TARDIS"; just brilliant! (my sense of humor, ignore it!)