The Sci. & Tech. Concordance and Discussion Thread

[_Owen_]

Actually I didn't get that could someone explain?

[Seastallion]

Not sure where to start, other than where we left off so, I'll try to get to everything. First in response to Seastallion's post. Our idea's sound similar the only problem is you said that the hyperspace cooridors would be formed by a strong antigravity field that would warp space-time, technically a strong antigravity field is a warp in space-time, or an antiwarp, whatever you want to call it. You you are saything that space-time causes hyperspace-time to be what it is, and I would have to disagree with you.

I'm not saying that it causes Hyperspace (that is there all the time), I am saying that the Hyperdrive allows the ship to make use of it. Macroscopic objects can not normally exist in hyperspace (or subspace), but the warped field allows the ship to 'fit' into hyperspace. When the warped field is distinguished (for any reason) the 'threads' of hyperspace close back to their natural state, thus 'pinching' the ship back into normal space.

Now in response to immhotep about the different colours, my idea does take ti to another "level" (you'll get the joke later) and explains the different colour windows.

My idea says that hyperspace get's progressively and progressively smaller, layer after layer the volume of the universe decreases, and as the universe get's smaller the faster you can go because the bigger you would be relative to the universe, and the further you can travel in less time. Different hyperdrives allow transit at different relative speeds therefore, the must access different layers of hyperspace, the more advanced the hyperdrive the deeper it can penetrate. That is another difference between my idea and Seastallion's, perhaps in Seastallions different hyperspace cooridors could allow different relative speeds.

My idea runs more something like this. The Hyperspace layer is stretched in two dimensions (X, Y), but compressed in the other two (Z, and Time). The amount of stretching and compression is determined by the amount of power you apply to the hyperdrive. You could say that the ship travels 'deeper', but it has no real meaning in 3-Dimensional terms.

The only other thing that I don't agree with is that when your hyperdrive deactivates you are automatically pushed back into regular space. I believe you would stay in hyperspace until you left. let's say your hyperdrive just shut down, what would happen is the space-time buble around your ship would disapear and you would shrink to fit the scale of the hyperspace layer, to exit you would just have to reactivate your hyperdrive like you were in normal space and it would open a hyperspace window back to regular space an then you just shut your stuff down again. The only reason someone would be pushed back into regular space is if the hyperdrive had failsafes that automatically opened hyperspace windows when the drives were dying.

One question for Seastallion, if you can simply access hyperspace by separating these threads, then how would you access different layers of hyperspace or cooridoors, I think we must agree that there need to be different layers or corridoors as we have seen a vast range in possible hyperspace travel.

As to the deactivation point, see above again. I don't agree with the shrinking thing, that would necessitate a very different sort of technology. I believe that the subspace would simply 'spit' you out, rather than keep an unnatural state without interference from a hyperdrive. As to there being different layers of hyperspace (subspace when not used by a ship) I agree that there are. Subspace is just another layer of Normal space. What makes the 'layers' accessible is the way in which the fabric of space time is altered, not travelling 'deeper' or moving into some sort of other dimension. 'Deeper' layers require either more energy usage, or more refined use of the energy being used already. If hyperspace were another spatial dimension, then yes, I'd agree that you'd probably stay there if the hyperdrive failed, but I don't believe that is what is being used on Stargate.

What you are describing is more like the 'hyperspace' described in Babylon 5, where it is a completely seperate spatial dimension. The reason for the Red Into-Hyperspace Windows, and Blue Exit-Hyperspace Windows are because of the shifts in light (In B5). It is red-shifted because the portal is moving light and matter away into hyperspace. It is blue-shifted because the portal is moving light and matter closer out of hyperspace.

[_Owen_]

Ok, so yes, our ideas have their variations, but can we agree that on this subject they are equal. And on your comment about keeping you in an unnatural state, you would be in an unnatural state when you are in hyperspace surrounded by a hyperspace bubble (I am calling it a hyperspace bubble because it is used in hyperspace it's techincally a space-time bubble) when your drive shuts down you get scalled to the size of the universe.

Well wavelength shifting is one possibility but I don't see the movement of light and matter as a cause.

[Seastallion]

Ok, so yes, our ideas have their variations, but can we agree that on this subject they are equal. And on your comment about keeping you in an unnatural state, you would be in an unnatural state when you are in hyperspace surrounded by a hyperspace bubble (I am calling it a hyperspace bubble because it is used in hyperspace it's techincally a space-time bubble) when your drive shuts down you get scalled to the size of the universe.

Well wavelength shifting is one possibility but I don't see the movement of light and matter as a cause.

I assume your referring to the B5 thing with the Hyperspace Windows? Basically the light is either red-shifted or blue-shifted. Just like galaxies moving away appear to be red-shifted to astronomoers (longer wavelengths), and objects that are moving towards something would appear more blue (because of shorter wavelengths). It's the same reason the Moon looks bigger (and redder) when the light passing through the atmosphere hits the moon, because the wavelength of the light 'makes objects appear larger than they actually are'... Or something like that.

[_Owen_]

That's close enough, but it would actually be violet-shifted as that is colour at the other end of the electromagnetic spectrum. But that wouldn't really apply to a hyperspace window.

[Seastallion]

That's close enough, but it would actually be violet-shifted as that is colour at the other end of the electromagnetic spectrum. But that wouldn't really apply to a hyperspace window.

Here is a 'B5' Jumpgate generating a Hyperspace window (Babylon 5 style).

Spoiler:

[Harekin]

I know this is a little off the topic but what exactly was contained in the Aurora mission reports? Surely it wasnt the hyperspace engine specifications, that wouldnt be in the report.

[_Owen_]

As far as I understand it, nothing is off topic is the Concordance thread. I think they might have downloaded more than just the mission reports, because ya, I don't see why the ship specs would be in the reports.

[Seastallion]

I know this is a little off the topic but what exactly was contained in the Aurora mission reports? Surely it wasnt the hyperspace engine specifications, that wouldnt be in the report.

Yeah, I always thought that was a little fuzzy too. Anyways, they must have had enough info on the subject for the Wraith to take advantage of it. Also, we don't know how much info the Wraith on the Aurora mission might have been able to send back prior to his death. Maybe there were only a few missing pieces of information they lacked, along with the locations of the destinations they needed to go to. They were never specific about it.

[Seastallion]

I was watching JAG the other day, and they had an interesting episode about the military's research into Psychic Phenomena. They proved that there was something to it, but the problem was that it was inconsistent and virtually impossible to control at will. However, on certain tests they beat the odds consistently enough to prove that there was indeed something happening. They called it the "Psychic Warrior" program.

In the world of Stargate, we saw Jonas Quinn being able to see bits of the future after being experimented on by Nirti. We've also seen various examples of humans advanced by artificial means besides. The ones Nirti worked on, the Priors, and Malick (I think was his name... Anubis' boy). Well, I had the idea... what if the Military decided to reinitialize the "Psychic Warrior" program using the technology and data procured through the gate?

They'd have the DNA machine left behind by Anubis, the Memory Implant Device from the Galarans, and all the data they've accumulated with Col. O'Neill, Aiyana ("Frozen"), Malick ("Prototype"), and Cassandra. Not to mention whatever data they've gotten from Atlantis. Also, assuming Anubis left notes, they should be able to work out how he did some of the things he did. They'd probably be able to find some people willing to have their DNA messed with in exchange for the possibility of recieving paranormal abilities.

Assuming they started having successes (whenever that might be), they'd probably start up some sort of Spec Ops team to make use of whatever they developed. If they succeeded in making someone able to heal people, they might start some sort of healing program. If they could do that, they could probably also start up some sort of Telepathic program. The CIA would go bananas if they had access to something like that. In the end... where would something like that end up? If those people had their DNA messed up with, whatever children they'd end up having would also have at least the potential for having similar abilities. Thus, possibly it could spread into the general population. Albeit slowly, over a succession of generations.

They might also find, that those born with the ATA Gene might be more receptive to such DNA manipulations, since they are already descended from genetically advanced humans in the first place. It would change the world of stargate quite a bit in the long run. With in a couple of hundred years, there could be a sizeable population of people with paranormal abilities. We saw how all that sort of thing was in Babylon 5, but how would it be in the world of Stargate? Just some thoughts.

[Harekin]

Yeah, I always thought that was a little fuzzy too. Anyways, they must have had enough info on the subject for the Wraith to take advantage of it. Also, we don't know how much info the Wraith on the Aurora mission might have been able to send back prior to his death. Maybe there were only a few missing pieces of information they lacked, along with the locations of the destinations they needed to go to. They were never specific about it.

Nah they did very specifically say that the Wraith only got two pieces of info from the Atlantis computers... And they destroyed the Wraith on the Aurora and the two cruisers before they had a chance to transmit ANY data back to the Hives. Im wondering was it the mission report filed by the Atlantis expedition or the report the Ancients had on the Aurora...I dunno.

[_Owen_]

Actually in real life the military ran a secrety program that they called "Stargate" believe it or not, that was used to attempt to train people with already "proven" pyschic abilities to use remote viewing. Apparently, (Whatever that means) they did succeed in locating downed helicopter pilots and such, I don't think anything was ever verified or quantified, there is an actual ESP scale, which I find kind of wierd, but allright. Most of the stuff you hear out there though is likely just completely fabricated by the paranoid/interested.

[immhotep]

lol, ive actually researched and become involved with this quite alot, theres a great website called PSIPOG.net, there are some really interesting articles on there.
and yesstargate was a paranormal research program by the military to study the uses of remote viewing and ExtraSensoryPerception in the cold war.
Ive actually talked to owen about this, remember the exercise i had you do once? the ball of energy in your hands..

[Seastallion]

Actually in real life the military ran a secrety program that they called "Stargate" believe it or not, that was used to attempt to train people with already "proven" pyschic abilities to use remote viewing. Apparently, (Whatever that means) they did succeed in locating downed helicopter pilots and such, I don't think anything was ever verified or quantified, there is an actual ESP scale, which I find kind of wierd, but allright. Most of the stuff you hear out there though is likely just completely fabricated by the paranoid/interested.

Yeah, but the question is, given what they have access to in the world of stargate, would they try to restart those programs, by artificially advancing humans based on what they've found to date? If they would, what would be the result of such experiments be in the long term? How might it change things here on Earth having such people existing with quantifiable and proven abilities? Would they become part of the normal fabric of society, or would they end up being outcasts? Or would they remain hidden, until their numbers were simply impossible to hide or control? The consequences for any acts may have a price, but it is how you deal with it that determines the final result.

[immhotep]

YES, prototype clearly shows they have great interest in furthering thier understanding of these things...i can imagine thje IC setting up a research base on the device's planet, it was never destroyed, im thinking at somepoint they will use this to make every soldier ATA gene'd, a more precise version of gene therapy.
Imagine what we could learn, we could complete anubis's work, heck if we must daniel could become the first Tauri prior or naturally acended being in a new Anti-prior/ mashur(ascended warriors) army.
i think this in the long term should be our goal, not to fight the ori conventionally but advanced to the point where our power in psychic and evolutionary terms equals them.