Hyperdrive vs. Stardrive

[NoDot]

How often do they?

[immhotep]

does it matter, also how do we know this, when have we been near the speed of light to experience time slowing?

[Three PhDs]

does it matter, also how do we know this, when have we been near the speed of light to experience time slowing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

[immhotep]

this also proves my theory perhap the alterans used time dialation to reverse the effect time had, making the ship travel faster as light approached it, we know the alteran had the ability to make and manipulate time dialation fields maybe this is the use.

[Three PhDs]

this also proves my theory perhap the alterans used time dialation to reverse the effect time had, making the ship travel faster as light approached it, we know the alteran had the ability to make and manipulate time dialation fields maybe this is the use.

What? Please restate what you mean in if -> therefore bullet points. I'm just not getting what you're saying.

[immhotep]

the alterans can manipulate time dialation field we know this because the time device in the Pj was called the time dialation deivce.
could this not mean that an alteran stardrive could be unaffected by the effects of time dialation?

[Akai]

It's possible that the intertial dampeners counteract relativistic effects. I also think when they referred to "stardrive" on the city, they were collectively referring to ALL of the city's engines...sublight and hyperdrive. They obviously can't just open up a hyperspace window while they're sitting on the planet's surface, the city has to be able to move. When the Prometheus first lifted off, it didn't engage its hyperdrive for some time. Atlantis must have sublight engines, you can see that when it lifts off from Earth in the pilot episode.

[PG15]

Well, to cross our solar system in 20 hours you'd have to be going in excess of the speed of light, so I'm assuming a PJ goes halfway across (eg, from near the star to the outer edges). Even in doing so they are travelling at speeds near the speed of light. As you approach the speed of light, time slows down. 20 hours in a Puddlejumper might be two weeks on Atlantis.

It takes light ~5 hours to get to Pluto (from the sun) if I remember correctly, so even if they were to go across Pluto's orbit (which is most likely not the case), they'll still be traveling slower than light...but not by much.

[Three PhDs]

the alterans can manipulate time dialation field we know this because the time device in the Pj was called the time dialation deivce.
could this not mean that an alteran stardrive could be unaffected by the effects of time dialation?

Any object travelling through space or in the presence of a great amount of mass or energy will be subjected to relativistic time dilation, it just so happens here that the writers have magicked up a wonderful means to counter it.

[PG15]

...for the purpose of simplicity. It's the same reason why everyone speaks English - it makes it easier to tell the story, which is the most important thing.

[immhotep]

Any object travelling through space or in the presence of a great amount of mass or energy will be subjected to relativistic time dilation, it just so happens here that the writers have magicked up a wonderful means to counter it.

the interial dampners compensate for the mass, and because it has less mass wouldnt a larger ship with larger mass be able to travel faster with less time dialation? if so, the larger the ship's sublightengine, the larger the interial have to be to protect it from the time dialation.

[Whatazarian]

Inertial dampeners just make sure that due to inertia you don't get squashed by the massive g forces.. how the hell would they counter time dilation? The way that it works in the Stargate universe is that the writers totally ignore relativity because the complex physics would just cause to much problems for the story line, as someone said, if we were to calculate the time dilation for everytime a ship travelled at 100 000 km/s (Prometheus' sublight speed), days would pass on Earth (Well I'm assuming, to lazy to actually work it out, maybe only hours would pass, but, time behaves different at speeds which are a large fraction of the speed of light, and 100 000km/s is more than 1/3 the speed of light.)

P.S Inertial dampeners add to the mass of the ship, for reference check the Storm/ The Eye, because they basically make the ship 1 big mass instead of lots of masses in one ship which would all be individually subject to inertia. This means that it would be even harder to reach light speed with interial dampeners because as you increase mass, more force is required to accelerate (F=MA, newtons laws..).

[Avatar28]

Inertial dampeners just make sure that due to inertia you don't get squashed by the massive g forces.. how the hell would they counter time dilation? The way that it works in the Stargate universe is that the writers totally ignore relativity because the complex physics would just cause to much problems for the story line, as someone said, if we were to calculate the time dilation for everytime a ship travelled at 100 000 km/s (Prometheus' sublight speed), days would pass on Earth (Well I'm assuming, to lazy to actually work it out, maybe only hours would pass, but, time behaves different at speeds which are a large fraction of the speed of light, and 100 000km/s is more than 1/3 the speed of light.)

P.S Inertial dampeners add to the mass of the ship, for reference check the Storm/ The Eye, because they basically make the ship 1 big mass instead of lots of masses in one ship which would all be individually subject to inertia. This means that it would be even harder to reach light speed with interial dampeners because as you increase mass, more force is required to accelerate (F=MA, newtons laws..).

Relativistic effects at even 1/3 c are pretty negligible. I found a nifty little relativity calculator (and I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy).
http://www.1728.com/reltivty.htm
According to it, at a velocity of 100,000 km/sec gives you a relativistic change factor of 1.0607520004442041. What that means is that for every 1 hour that passes on the ship, 1.06 hours would pass for someone in a stationary frame of reference.

Regarding inertial dampers, they wouldn't make it any harder to reach c simply because either way it goes you're going to have to accelerate the same mass. The ship has to accelerate your mass along with it's own.

atlantis could have sublight drive that can get between solar systems within a day. and then for major trips a hyperdrive:

Not unless the systems are pretty close together. If there are then it might just be possible but only if they are able to go a significant fraction of c.

You said : "Stardrive, maximum slower than light speed" - eg, relativistic velocities, meaning it would take millions of years to get to Pegasus, and better yet, millions of years by their standard and billions if not trillions by ours - eg, end of the universe etc.

Nope, you've got it a bit backwards. If you're travelling at, say, .9c the relativistic change factor is roughly 2.3. If, in your trip you were to travel a distance of 90 light years, it would take 100 years to someone in a stationary frame of reference for you to make it there. But to you on the ship only about 43.5 years would pass.

[Three PhDs]

the interial dampners compensate for the mass, and because it has less mass wouldnt a larger ship with larger mass be able to travel faster with less time dialation? if so, the larger the ship's sublightengine, the larger the interial have to be to protect it from the time dialation.

It's not mass that decides whether or not you will experience time dilation, it's your velocity.

Relativistic effects at even 1/3 c are pretty negligible. I found a nifty little relativity calculator (and I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy).
http://www.1728.com/reltivty.htm
According to it, at a velocity of 100,000 km/sec gives you a relativistic change factor of 1.0607520004442041. What that means is that for every 1 hour that passes on the ship, 1.06 hours would pass for someone in a stationary frame of reference.

Yeah, but given the size of the solar system, and that relativistic effects increase exponentially as speed increases, we'd be seeing more pronounced effects on the show with the PJ.

Regarding inertial dampers, they wouldn't make it any harder to reach c simply because either way it goes you're going to have to accelerate the same mass. The ship has to accelerate your mass along with it's own.

Doesn't really matter anyway, it takes more energy than exists in the universe to accelerate even a single atom to light speed.

Nope, you've got it a bit backwards. If you're travelling at, say, .9c the relativistic change factor is roughly 2.3. If, in your trip you were to travel a distance of 90 light years, it would take 100 years to someone in a stationary frame of reference for you to make it there. But to you on the ship only about 43.5 years would pass.

Nope, to you on the ship things would appear normal. You would cover the 90 light years in 90/0.9 years = 100 years. However, if you left Earth in 2005, flew out 45 light years then came back to Earth, you would return in the year 2212.

[Seastallion]

Okaaay...

I skipped a whole lot of reading because, quite frankly it was getting frustrating. Let me simplify the answer to the original question, which was "is there any difference between the terms Hyperdrive and Stardrive"?

The answer is 'yes', but only a minor difference.

It is the difference between... say... a Baptist and a Christian. A Baptist is always a Christian, but a Christian is not always a Baptist. Get it? No?

Okay... A Hyperdrive is a specific sort of 'Stardrive' which is an equivilant and simpler term to 'Faster-than-Light Drive'. A 'Warp Drive' is also a 'Stardrive', but not a Hyperdrive. Got it? No?

Okay... A 'Hyperspace Window Generator' is just another name for 'Hyperdrive', and NOT a seperate technology. Just as a 'Warp Field Generator' is a 'Warp Drive', and NOT a seperate technology. Got it? No?

Okay... A Stardrive is a general term that applies to ANY type of Faster-than-Light propulsion technology, whereas Hyperdrive and Warp drive are specific and seperate types of Stardrives.

Just for those who want to know the basic difference between a Warp Drive and a Hyperdrive... here it is.

A Warp Drive, 'warps' the spacetime around it, so that it creates a 'pocket' of independent space around the ship, that is then used to propel the ship by undulating the space bubble around it in such a way as to cause the ship to move at faster than light speeds. Matter, has a speed limit, but space itself does not. It is sort of like walking on a conveyor belt at the airport next to those simply walking on the sidewalk next to you. You are actually moving no faster than the other people yourself, but the conveyor belt is making you seem to move much faster than you yourself are. Using the conveyor belt, you cover a much greater distance than those simply walking on the sidewalk. So... a Warp Drive is much like a 'Conveyor Belt' Drive.

A Hyperdrive, on the otherhand opens a 'window' to another space dimension, called 'hyperspace' (also known as 'subspace') where the normal 'speed' limits don't apply. Also, since your not actually travelling in 'normal' space you don't have to worry about running into things. You do still have to worry about gravity fields which can still effect your hyperdrive, because gravity crosses into all or most dimensions unlike some of the other forces of nature. The hyperdrive actually does two things... first is creates the 'portal' into hyperspace in the first place, but then it also maintains a necessary focused gravity field that allows the ship to stay in hyperspace. If the the field is not maintained, than your ship will revert back to 'normal' space, or you could die. Whereas the Warpdrive is like a conveyor belt, the Hyperdrive is more like a slide. Would you rather walk down a 20 story building on stairs... or take a slide, where you simply allow gravity to pull you along, while travelling through a corridor that allows you to avoid any stops along the way. You would get to the ground floor MUCH faster. Fortunately most slides are designed to slow you down before you actually reach the bottom first. So I guess you could think of the Hyperdrive, as being a 'Sled drive'.

Hmmm... no wonder Santa gets around so fast...

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing... there is also a Third type of Stardrive, which I didn't mention. You can read about it in the 'Dune' novels. Essentially, you just sit where you are, and fold space around you in such a way as to just suddenly show up where you wanted to go. It is sort of like making 2 dots on a sheet of paper, folding it, so the two dots are touching (thus you are in both places at once momentarily), and then unfold the paper, and suddenly your at the other dot. Probably the fastest mode of transportation discussed so far, but also incredibly more complicated than either.

...and yet, the 'Space Folding Drive' is also... a Stardrive.