'Trial and Error' (206) General Discussion

[DigiFluid]

Does anyone else think it's entirely possible that TJ's dream was just a scenario generated by the Destiny in order to keep her from completely falling apart since she is necessary to the mission?

No. Because thier wasn't a mental need for TJ like Young

For once jel, I think you're way off the mark. We saw all through Season 1 (particularly in the first half) that Destiny stops off for essential supplies that her crew needs for physical survival. This new development is about her crew's mental health. I think it's a perfectly reasonable guess that as of late Season 1/early Season 2, Destiny had come to understand the roles that her crew play.

I'm not saying that I expect this to be the explanation of TJ's dream, just that it's a fair guess.

[themeatcleaver]

DEFINITELY top 5 of the series for me! Fantastic episode!

Personal favorite part was the third dream where Scott clocks Young and then Young just lays on the floor CACKLING! That. Was. AWESOME.

[ussrelativity]

Yes, he KNEW the whole thing was B.S.

This series for all it's flaws starting out, needs to continue! Young is very interesting, Rush is brilliant, the ship is rather eccentric compared with most.

[MattSilver 3k]

The episode was good fun. A nice twist I didn't see coming - see, I thought Young's dreams would've been chalked up to his psyche, but pulling out the Destiny as a character wildcard was great, and a little insight into our favourite Ancient ship is always, always, appreciated.

So yeah, I dug it.

It was kinda nice to have the commander issue raised again without it being squabbling amongst the crew. The scene with Rush, Wray and Scott really highlighted that, especially Wray or Rush's "We tried taking over once, and that didn't work out". While I consider Wray out of the running now, Rush... is still Rush. Dude's going somewhere, and I get the feeling that Destiny wasn't so much as rooting for Young as it was rejecting Rush like a bad organ. Wouldn't surprise me if Rush has to earn Destiny's trust in order to lead or something like that, whereas Young is a bit more upfront and has lost a lot more being here - maybe Destiny sees Rush as the bad guy, or someone really self-serving and not yet someone who can be what he has to be in order for the mission to go full speed ahead.

I wouldn't mind seeing Scott step up, but it is a little too soon for that, I think. He's got a while to go and some hard choices to learn how to make, but there's potential, no matter how small, for him there. I doubt TJ will ever go for leadership - despite her stint in Water it would come as a surprise if she jumped ship from the ship's doctor to leader. It would be fun to see her as a leader for a bit, but, again, not right now. One thing, I think she'll be recovering from Young's harsh little moment there. Ouch. Alaina Huffman's tears always bring out the sympathy in me. Good job to her.

Wray, like Scott, is stepping up too in positive ways. Trying to help out Young like she was was kinda nice, and she seems a lot more practical and to-the-point as of late. Good for her. Greer didn't have much to do in the main plot, but those scenes with Eli were fantastic - some cool bonding between the two, which I liked a lot. I hope it continues, 'cause they get some very weird and very cool friendship moments.

Now, as for the Eli/Ginn stuff, I say D'aww and stuff like that. It's nice and sweet and more than a little awkward, so pretty much as I expected. Unfortunately I doubt it'll last too much longer, but as long as it doesn't turn out she's using him or something, I won't mind. It's a shame that one of my favourite character's finally gets himself into something positive... and that my immediate thought is, "God I hope she's not using him."

Ah well. Great episode this week - I think I dug Cloverdale more, but this is just as good as Aftermath for me. Young focus with a side of Eli/Ginn makes for an awesome episode.

[Eternal Density]

Definitely a very interesting episode. Though a lot of the time throughout it I felt off-balance, not having much of an idea of where it was going or what it was getting at. There was something strangely unnerving about it. I'm not sure what though. Maybe I finally noticed the 'dark' tone of the show? This one felt a bit more desperate and less fun than I'm used to. That's really strange, I don't know why I feel that way. It's funny how I didn't enjoy it as much as last weeks, yet more other people are enjoying this weeks, or at least not vocally disliking it. Heh.

I rather liked the scene where TJ told Young about who whole baby-planet-dream-thing, and how Young admitted to suffocating Riley. Those were some powerful scenes.
And Rush's "Ultimately I control this ship" - wow! Great ending! I think he's headed for a fall soon, with that attitude
Also, hooray for more Ginn. (And Park's funny look when Eli was going on about his new relationship status, that was a lighter moment in the ep.) Also, new KINO footage, and info about Eli's documentary! Win

[edit] Mental green for MattSilver 3k who ninja'd my post. I have much agreement with him.
Oh, and in reply to Jel's wondering about whether this ep is filler or arc, my opinion is that it doesn't matter, shouldn't matter, and the less time we give to thoughts about 'filler', the better.
[edit again] I didn't link the title to the episode content until I got to Young's second dream. That was when the penny dropped, though of course I had no idea the dreams had any real purpose until Eli figured out what the simulations were. Plus I had suspected the extra load Eli found was something Rush was up to, not Destiny herself.

[kirmit]

The people questioning why Atlantis didn't have an AI like destiny, simple answer is that it didn't need it. Destiny is required to make its way alone for a long time, encountering different scenarios on it own and having to figure them out. Add to this that destiny has a mission it needs to complete gives all the more reason for having an AI, an AI that thinks of the best way to complete its mission. Now as for Atlantis, Atlantis was just a city that could fly, it had no mission, it wasn't on a journey, it was simply a home, there's no need for an AI such as destiny's.

[JadedWraith]

My first thought was: this is a even more depressing version of time, to show case all the imperfections of Young's leadership. aren't we going to see the end of all this doom and gloom? And then...

I have to swallow everything I wrote before about Scott's lack of character depth or development. In my defense, it the writers a whole season and a quarter to get here.
This, more than Cloverdale, was Scott's episode. Congrats to the actor and the writers! Maybe Scott went for this line of action because wasn't feeling prepared for command this early in his life, maybe because he saw Young as father figure. Or not. He more than anyone, saw Young's flaws, and was able to see him as he was and not as he wished Young would be. Which is a clear sign of maturity when we are able to see the imperfections in our role models and accept them as a whole. He was able to see the humanity in Young which could and did hinder him but would make him an acceptable leader, THE leader, because he did feel the burden of difficult decisions, unlike visionary but callous Rush.

Finally I had the opportunity to confirm that the one commanding Destiny is ...Destiny. Sorry, Rush, the girl has let you in for the ride, but she does have her own agenda.
So no matter how you may choose to see it: Rush was able to by pass the simulation, Ginn (sp?) was able to control by manipulating Eli, maybe Eli was able to control it or Destiny just kept control of herself: the Ship is headed for a course that will be interesting to follow. No one could ask more from a Sci-fi show.

[Stormtrooper]

Decent episode, but SGU was the same dark, depressing, slow-paced show. It gets tiring after a while. If Destiny is controlling the crew's brainwaves, how do we know what's real anymore? The series seems to be heading for a "it's all a dream" finale.

[Misfits]

Has anybody contemplated that the data exchange with the Seeder Ship may have expanded the Destiny AI?
Until 'Awakening' Destiny AI was in a supportive mode. Helping out the crew.
After wards, it's more active in it's interaction with the crew.

[Shiarnaq]

A pretty good episode with good acting, mainly by Young.
Personally I'm not a big fan of the ship having an advanced AI like this, in fact I hate it because it's so unrealistic and well, not entertaining at all. The whole "theshipcamherefoareason" crap and it detecting every single thing they needed and automatically stopping at a planet where that thing could be found got old really quick. It doesn't make sense at all, the information the Destiny has on the planets with a Stargate is thousands if not more years old, since it originated from scans of the seed ships. I was glad when they sort of ignored that little feature during the second half of season 1 and I thought they forget it completely with Rush controlling the bridge. I'd much rather have Rush go insane than the ship projecting buddies for him.
It also doesn't make sense that the Destiny, described by Rush as a pile of junk compared to other ships they've encountered over the years, would have such an advanced feature when even Atlantis didn't have something this advanced. Don't forget that the Destiny was launched from earth, long before the Ancients made the AI of the Replicators and long before they learned to accend, so accended Ancients running the place would make even less sense.

As for the Eli Ginn relationship, I don't find it unrealistic at all, in fact it's quite logical. The Lucian Alliance exists of bandits and murderers and those that were forced to join them, not to mention many of them come from worlds previously ruled by the Goa'uld. Even the 'good' Lucian Alliance soldiers like Varro have blood on their hands and are the cold distant warrior type. That Kino footage showed Eli at his most vulnerable and emotional, chances are a girl like Ginn has never met an emotional and caring man before in her life, it makes sense that she'd fall for him in an instant.

[icsteffi]

Really nice episode. Always fun seeing those blue aliens, even if just for a sec!

The one thing that kind of bothered me was that the scenarios were supposed to be be super realistic, but I didn't find the third scenario realistic at all! Chloe may be expecting to be dumped off on some planet somewhere, but she shouldn't be expecting being returned to the scary scary aliens! She was much too calm and composed walking up under the alien shuttle. Has Chloe really come so far as to show no fear? I also didn't like how Young just walked away from that situation, with no look of sympathy or wave goodbye. Even if he suspected this was still a "dream"....he was pretty much a jerk the whole episode.

I like nice people! Thank gosh for the Eli/Ginn story line which cheered me up a bit. Now, with this episodes resolution, I hope that Mr. Grumpy Pants Young is gone.

[Shadow_7]

Super Chloe needs no fear, she cannot be killed.

A very good episode. So nice to have one that's actually on topic for the series. Even if 40+ minutes into it we were still technically in V world. And at the end of it all, only 3 things that could be considered progress happened. Which is actually better statistics than the previous two episodes.

Spoiler:

- Young Sobered up.
- Ginn noticed that time dialation wasn't compensated for in previous sun dialing attempt.
- the Event Horizon has an Intelligence.

[YoshiKart64]

Thought this was one of the best episodes of the series and certainly my favourite of the season. For possibly the first time the entire cast of characters clicked at once although the standouts were definitely Young and Scott. Rush was also awesome but the scene between the former two really made the episode for me.

Infinity better than last weeks episode and a prime example of why SGU needs to stick around.

[Misfits]

The one thing that kind of bothered me was that the scenarios were supposed to be be super realistic, but I didn't find the third scenario realistic at all! Chloe may be expecting to be dumped off on some planet somewhere, but she shouldn't be expecting being returned to the scary scary aliens! She was much too calm and composed walking up under the alien shuttle. Has Chloe really come so far as to show no fear? I also didn't like how Young just walked away from that situation, with no look of sympathy or wave goodbye. Even if he suspected this was still a "dream"....he was pretty much a jerk the whole episode.

I like nice people! Thank gosh for the Eli/Ginn story line which cheered me up a bit. Now, with this episodes resolution, I hope that Mr. Grumpy Pants Young is gone.

How obtuse of you.
Teal'c, the ultimate warrior in SG-1, had the same hopeless, uncaring response in the episode where he was trapped in the game chair, where he had to battle the Cold Warriors. No matter what he tried, the ending was the same failure. By himself, he couldn't solve the problem, he realized it, and gave up.
Just like Young.
Young, realizing that he's re-running the same dream scenario, regardless of how real it seemed to him, nothing working, offense didn't work, defense didn't work, this possible scenario of letting go of Cloe, is a dream, NOT real, and he'll find out the outcome that is not real, why would he care to show any emotion other than what he actually showed?
It's a joke on him, it's not real, and he behaved accordingly.

[Carp1607]

Now we def know that Destiny was playing with TJ

Wow, good point. I wonder if they will expand on this and have a TJ meltdown.