'Trial and Error' (206) General Discussion

[boyd22]

Spoiler:

Thats "The Greater Good which premieres next week

Spoiler:

Oh ok, thanks. Guess i should check the episode guide more often. I went into this episodes thinking we were going to learn Destiny's mission.

[Makenshi]

Most interesting episode of the season

Really awesome episode

Amazing episode

definitely one of the best episodes of the season and the series

this Episode Was Awesome!!

I completely endorse the above coments, this was absolutely the best episode of the season so far, almost everything was made of pure, golden win. It's also one of the best in the series up until now.

"Ultimately, I control this ship"

Damn, this is fully badass!

[SGFerrit]

The Blue's attack wasn't real, and I don't think they will catch up. 'Franklin', or whatever he is, kind of made that clear with his last comment, and foreshadowed something that's probably even worse to come. I don't mind that though, because what the visions signified is more than just another assault by those aliens. It goes some ways to show that Destiny has the makings of one of the coolest sci-fi ships ever. I know some people were worried at the start that it would have an Andromeda-like A.I., but what it does have seems much more intricate and interesting. Add that to other stuff, like it flying into stars and traveling across the whole universe, not to mention the fact that they've just made it look so cool, and you see that the creators have managed to make something really wonderful with Destiny, IMO anyway

[Daniela]

This episode went a totally different direction than I could ever imagine. I loved it so much. Definitely my favorite so far.

I wonder why Syfy doesn't show last week's episode before the new one anymore?

[Derocalypse]

I give this episode a 7 out of 10. It had some interesting moments. I wish there was a real attack on the Destiny but I have to believe this episode will payoff in the end. I have to say Lt. Scott really impressed me for the first time. For a little bit he reminded me of Col. Mitchell or Col. Sheppard the way he was organizing things. So all in all not a bad episode. Oh yeah some good humor was also thrown in this episode, which is a stargate staple plus some nice character moments from Col. Young.

[Utitan]

I agree with many that this episode was one the best in every way.. I think it did go in a good direction in explaining so much. In my mind that is.. I think the writers may leave it up to the viewers to decide if TJ's dream had meaning or not.. "Meaning" might not be the right word because the meaning is relative. It served it's purpose to TJ. To the viewer.. was it indeed real or a subroutine to keep the crew's mental acuity intact. I'm on the side it was Destiny, A fail safe program to understand the crew and keep them mentally on board in extended stresses of space and the importance of the mission. I think Young exposed the underlying part of this in his dialogue with TJ in that not everything you want to be true, is.

This leads to other trickle down issues of huge importance.. One being Destiny's ability to anticipate the future. I.E. Tj's nebula built into her dream. The ships ability to interface with human consciousness with the captain having control of the ship in ways that aren't conscious.

Yes, Rush saying "Ultimately, I am in control of the ship" was HUGE. It goes beyond simple input of command. What Destiny does, and Rush's will are slowly becoming one. This answers the question of "Why" as Rush and Franklin ponder the reason for the program and then in turn leads rush to say the previous quote about control.

It seems likely to me that the program anticipated Rush and his concerns about the leadership aboard the ship. Thus set forth Young's mental reinforcement on it's own. When Scott turned down the opportunity, which is for the best, Rush is wise enough to know that he will take what he can get at that point with Young and get the ship going again. I get the feeling this hierarchy will be more established next episode.

[Vapor]

Well that was just fantastic. One of the best episodes of the season, perhaps the entire series for me. Top 5 material, at least.

I have always liked Young as a character, even through some of his darkest moments. And this is most definitely the darkest of all, as his drinking, and the events of the series finally catch up with him like never before.

I have loved the evolution of Young's arc. Through the first and current seasons, he had many fans thinking he was completely unfit, even worthless to the mission. And yes, I'm sure there are plenty that still think that. But the battle scenario, apparently fabricated by the ship itself, forces him to face all of his problems head-on, creating a situation that proves to us how capable he can be when he has the right people (like Scott) backing him up, even when Young seems determined not to let them.

As far as whether or not Young is truly fit to command, well... I would argue that no one person on Destiny would be perfect at the job. This episode demonstrates that they operate as a unit, and a single person running the whole show isn't always good enough. Young needs Scott to kick him in the pants when he's unable to get up on his own. He needs the voice of Camille trying to keep him honest. And he even needs Rush, to come up with all those things that he himself would never immediately think about in a critical situation. And it would be the same for anyone left in charge.

Meanwhile, we have the more light-hearted friendship growing between Eli and Greer, as they discuss Eli's possibilities with Ginn. Their exchanges in the mess hall and the corridors outside Ginn's earshot were priceless. And I like that Ginn saw a side of Eli through the kino footage that he probably would never have revealed otherwise. Regardless of how cliche or unreal some fans may think this potential relationship may be, it's nice to see that she already knows that part of him and it doesn't put her off. It sort of immediately establishes that she's not another Chloe for him. She doesn't want to be his little sister. >_>

The performances were pretty great all around. Particularly during those scenes between Scott and Young. The rawness of emotion pouring out of Young. They've obviously never spoken to each other like this before, and the tension was extreme. I did not expect Young to empty all his guns like that, mocking how Scott looks up to him, and perhaps sees him as the father he never had growing up. Just goes to show how far Young has descended that he could let that out, but clearly he needed it, and it gave Scott the opportunity to vent a little himself and slap some sense into him without feeling like he went too far out of line, given the circumstances.

The whole confrontation makes the aftermath, where Young rises back up and pulls himself back together that much more heroic to me. But not heroic in a cliche, or overly simplistic way. The hero doesn't just reach some grand epiphany on his own and decide to move on. He runs kicking and screaming away from it until practically the last second when a friend (I think it's safe to say that's what Scott is, if not many other things) forces him to take a look in the mirror and realize what he has to do, despite knowing that horrible things may happen later on.

Speaking of horrible things, the destruction of Destiny, fake or not, was extremely effective to me. In particular, the sequence where a piece of debris slams into the window and Scott is sucked out into space. I hadn't seen previews or spoilers, so I had no idea what was happening, and for a moment, they made me consider that it might have somehow been real. The performances and the beautifully-rendered visual effects combined for a superb action/suspense sequence.

In the end, Rush sits talking to "Franklin," and the events of the episode force me to wonder if whoever it is that Rush is speaking with has any connection to the scenario Young was facing. But the line that leaves the greatest impression is when he says "Ultimately, I control Destiny." He says this immediately after it's established how much Young has won back some support from the crew. As if it's a competition between them, and Rush wants to make sure no one is winning more than he is. I love the sickness of that. lol

Some of the cast have mentioned how much they like this episode and the next couple, and I can definitely see why in this case. I greatly enjoyed the show this week.

But... is this the first episode that did not use a one-word title? Did we just decide to scrap that?

[Paladine]

I was a bit disappointed they brought the blues back. Even for a simulation I'm frankly bored of them. Overrall the episode was good though.

[david2708]

Ha ha. Trial & Error. If you're gonna lift the idea from TNG's Cause & Effect, at least disguise the title a little better.

[ancientaction]

I really liked this episode. this was epic.

Now, ive read a few threads now, with a few people saying that the Destiny, and other Ancient ships/systems did not have A.I.s. I would have to disagree.

Atlantis had an A.I., it was able to calculate, and determine and make decisions, without much need for external control. it is an A.I., but not to the extent that most sci fi shows would have it, this definatly isn't Andromeda's A.I. with a personality complex.
i think that would actually sum up the Ancient's A.I. in total. an A.I. minus a personality complex. The ancients learned once what implementing a personality complex would do (the replicators for example)

so, with that, I belive the Destiny does have an A.I. (just sans any personality complex).

Now, on to Franklin, Im on the boat that says that Franklin and the ship are one now. Rush's halucinations are different each time, when he see's his wife, she is only reflecting what Rush already knows, his own subconcious. however, when he sees Franklin, its a different story, Franklin reveals to things that Rush may not have seen, giving Rush a perspective that he himself would have trouble coming to.

so, since thats what i belive happend to Franklin; then i would assume that between Destiny and Franklin, they used the simulation and found a way to make a link to Young. notice how this link/simulation really only affected Young when he was passed out from being drunk..... i think it was only in that stuper of a state that the ship could make a connection with him, outside of the chair.


just my thoughts. may seem far fetched, but hey, they are billions and billions of light years away from earth... to me, thats far fetched...

[meo3000]

This episode was almost perfect, the only thing missing wouldve been a small stargate mission thrown in there, like to pick up potatoes or something.

[Nth Chevron]

Its nice to see that Ginn is starting to be accepted into normal Destiny life, if she is using Eli then she's the best undercover operative ive ever seen in Stargate, but, my fingers are crossed that Eli finally finds some semblence of happiness, and tbh he's pulled pretty much the hottest thing on 2 legs aboard Destiny.

Loved the Apple Core scene where he wasnt quite sure it was happening and started talking aloud about it without realising

As for TJ, i dont think her dream was Destiny, in Young's scenario's we saw everything Destiny used to be based on fact and past experiences, how can Destiny, which runs on pure logic almost from my perspective, fill in the blanks of something as potentially surreal as a dream using unknown variables to create the desired effect of saving TJ's sanity? knowing how abstract and surreal our dreams can be, there was no way to know how she would react to a purely fictitious scenario beamed into her brain by the ship.

N.C

[Quallen]

Ha ha. Trial & Error. If you're gonna lift the idea from TNG's Cause & Effect, at least disguise the title a little better.

The ships AI (or something) testing the commander with repeated no win scenarios (al la repeated Kobayashi Maru tests since you're on the subject of startrek) to see if he is fit to lead has what exactly to do with the enterprise getting stuck in a time loop? All sci-fi does not begin and end with your limited experience.

Anyway, thought it was a fantastic episode. Between youngs character arc, the fun greer/eli moments and rushs ending line I already want to watch it again.

[morbosfist]

Destiny - Supposed to pre-date Atlantis. The city didn't have any sort of AI, so why does Destiny have one? They are building this ship up to be something mystical, but there is no reason why it should be; unless it's encountered something along it's route that might account for that. My only guess at this stage, is the Faith aliens; they've become of Destiny and it's mission, and now the crew, and are following along in an attempt to understand the humans. At this stage, that's the only explanation I can offer, otherwise none of this makes sense.

Atlantis did have an AI, one that can be argued to be close to as forward thinking as this one. Look at the quarantine. It could determine that the infection wasn't spreading, knew to recognize suits it had never before encountered as safe from the infection, and instituted lockdown protocols when things got out of hand. The only difference between then and now is that Atlantis isn't psychic, but then you probably don't want your capital city screwing with your dreams.

[DigiFluid]

This has been one of my favourites of Season 2 thus far, even if it was a little bit of a Cause and Effect story.

I loved that Scott finally manned up and took charge, and his motivating of Col. Young was absolutely fantastic. This is the first episode since Air Part 3 that I've really loved his character.

I really dig the Eli/Ginn angle. I never much cared for him pining over Chloe so this is a lovely change of pace. And it doesn't hurt that the the Ginn actress (Julie McNiven, I believe) is out-of-this-world cute. The whole Eli/Greer dynamic in this episode was a howl as well.

The VFX, fantastic. They're certainly getting a lot of mileage out of the Smurfs, but it wasn't just them that was great. The shot of the ship being destroyed was one of the best VFX sequences of the series to date IMO.

As for the Destiny emerging as a pseudo-character of its own, and coming to understand the crew....wow. Terrific development, and more than a little scary. It begs the question of why Atlantis didn't do the same, but I'm willing to give it a pass since Atlantis was more a base than it was a ship in uncharted territory.

And those final moments revealing that Rush figured out how to shut the simulation down....ooh. Interesting! And more Franklin!

Does anyone else think it's entirely possible that TJ's dream was just a scenario generated by the Destiny in order to keep her from completely falling apart since she is necessary to the mission?

Wooow good thinking mate! This whole semi-sentient Destiny thing casts a whole new light on a lot of things!