'Trial and Error' (206) General Discussion

[morbosfist]

And, yet again, you miss THE point. Chloe's activities are not self-induced. It is based on what the Blue Aliens did to her. In fact, this is a given, and you're coming up with the most incredible concoctions to validate your point of view, which is clearly wrong.

No, it isn't wrong. You've somehow latched on to this theory that a second mind is swimming around in her head when there are dozens of examples where simple brainwashing is sufficient. Za'tarcs, for example. Independent action doesn't equal an independent mind, no matter how much you want it to.

Well, when a race is advanced to such a degree beyond our understanding, it would seem magical. And yes, until you can understand the Hocus and Pocus, and understand how it works, it might as well be hocus-pocus.
In another words, do you know if it is one agent or multiple agents? If it a single process or multiple processes? If it a single phase or multiple phases? Or a myriad of possible combination of all of the above?
I certainly don't and it has not been defined in ANY episodes.
Just to point to a single scene showing that TJ has been able to find a difference in Chloe's blood, and stating conclusively that this is factually this or that, would be inane.

Now you're just ignoring the obvious. The difference in Chloe's blood is said in that scene. Chloe's blood shows atypical anti-biotic properties, while Scott's blood went back to normal. There's no arguing or denying this fact. The difference is there. TJ found it. You can go on all you like about the hocus-pocus, but the fact is you do not understand the subject you're trying to discuss here, so you're hiding behind advanced technology to avoid admitting your mistake. It's a virus, per TJ's studies and CHloe's reaction. End of story. You can't refute on-screen evidence, and the fact that you recommend a blood test comparison between Chloe and Rush shows that you have already acknowledged it's in her blood and simply aren't willing to admit it in a reply to me.

[Quallen]

It must have known the existence of 'Cloud aliens in 'Water'. In fact, it may have communicated with them of TJ's plan. To believe that every single one of the cloud Aliens would enter the water container that TJ was holding open is very convenient and suspicious.

For me at least the jury is still out on the swarm. I never could decide if they were intelligent on some level and empathic or telepathic or merely a lower life form practicing mimicing behavior.

As I've pointed out, we do know, because TJ says so. You can claim up and down you don't believe me, but it's been said straight up in the show. She's fighting an infection. That is what TJ's statement means, no two ways about it.

I think this is a good example of one of the ways the SGU is different. Instead of the Science character turning to the layman character and the writers proceeding to tell us exactly whats going on we get to witness the actual characters try to explain it. Sometimes we get omniscient answers from the writers and sometimes we get to see the characters flailing around themselves trying to get a handle on whats going on. It might confuse things from a "canon" perspective but its makes for a more organic story imo (just something to keep in mind.)

I can't decide which I like more. The episode or all the unique theories about the episode that we're discussing. I mean I certainly like my own take on things but there have been alot of other peoples that i've liked as well.

[Shadow_7]

I like the theories as well. But it would be nice to have some of the "scientists" test some of them in the series and on Destiny, instead of "Just another day in outer space". i.e. Testing Rush for Chloe's ailment. Even if he was cured of it with the alien venom when he was operated on. For a bunch of scientists stuck in a box in space, they sure don't seem to be interested in much. Eli sure, he has a bunch of Kinos to keep him sitting pretty in his cage. What about the 50-200 others onboard? That have a fish bowl sized window at best. And only 4 active stones to keep some of them semi-sane.

[James71]

And also, if she was altered by the blues and not some other alien that we didn't know about, why change her and not Rush?

That sort of bothers me also. Chloe was only on the Blues ship for a few minutes/hours. She was abducted from Destiny, then Col Young used the stones to get on the alien ship and freed Rush. Rush then freed Chloe.
Rush was on that ship for days/weeks.
Chloe was on it for minutes/hours.

It doesn't make sense for Chloe to be changing and not Rush.

[Mortock42]

Both Rush and Chloe had the mind-reading probes attached to their heads while they were on the alien ship. One could speculate that because of the physiology difference between the blue's and humans, the device was unable to operate to its full potential. Maybe instead of only reading Rush's mind, they blue's wanted to download a "program" into his subconscious to infiltrate the ship's systems and aid the blue's in taking control of it (after they somehow placed him back on Destiny). Rush was the most valuable asset to them, given his considerable knowledge of both mathematics and the Ancients.

So maybe the blue's, in trying to increase the effectiveness of the mind probe, decided to alter Rush's physiology so that it more closely resembled their own? And because of how valuable Rush was, the blue's decided to try a test-run of the process on an unimportant human first, i.e., Chloe. Maybe the blue's were waiting to see how effective their experiment was on Chloe before repeating the procedure with Rush. And btw, Rush was the only one with a tracking beacon; if Chloe had been important to the blue's, she would have had one too (in my opinion at least...).

I think that they had a plan, but it was ruined by by Rush escaping with Chloe before they could finish whatever it was they were doing....
As long as Chloe doesn't start turning into a biological ship by consuming Destiny and her power reserves, I'll be happy

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

It doesn't make sense for Chloe to be changing and not Rush.

well, to be honest, we don't know that they haven't done something more to Rush and they did implant something in him, it was just taken out. No one suspected that Chloe was done any harm, because Rush said that he checked her for an implant. For all we know, they chose to do something different to Chloe for whatever reason. It may be as simple as gender; there's just no way to know at this point.

[morbosfist]

Both Rush and Chloe had the mind-reading probes attached to their heads while they were on the alien ship. One could speculate that because of the physiology difference between the blue's and humans, the device was unable to operate to its full potential. Maybe instead of only reading Rush's mind, they blue's wanted to download a "program" into his subconscious to infiltrate the ship's systems and aid the blue's in taking control of it (after they somehow placed him back on Destiny). Rush was the most valuable asset to them, given his considerable knowledge of both mathematics and the Ancients.

So maybe the blue's, in trying to increase the effectiveness of the mind probe, decided to alter Rush's physiology so that it more closely resembled their own? And because of how valuable Rush was, the blue's decided to try a test-run of the process on an unimportant human first, i.e., Chloe. Maybe the blue's were waiting to see how effective their experiment was on Chloe before repeating the procedure with Rush. And btw, Rush was the only one with a tracking beacon; if Chloe had been important to the blue's, she would have had one too (in my opinion at least...).

I think that they had a plan, but it was ruined by by Rush escaping with Chloe before they could finish whatever it was they were doing....
As long as Chloe doesn't start turning into a biological ship by consuming Destiny and her power reserves, I'll be happy

Rush said he could resist. Maybe they couldn't manage to get him to play ball, so to speak, and decided to grab another subject.

[Mortock42]

Rush said he could resist. Maybe they couldn't manage to get him to play ball, so to speak, and decided to grab another subject.

That could be the case. They could have become frustrated with him, somehow figured out that he was from Destiny, and caught-up with Destiny to get another subject.
But if the only thing they were doing was probing his and Chloe's minds, why were they in the elaborate tank? Everytime i've seen someone in a tank like that, medical experiments were being performed. (Then again, it could have been the blue's version of an isolation chamber to prevent the spread of pathogens...)
I guess until the show explains all of this, all we can do is speculate and make wild guesses, eh?

[tinerin]

You're basing your opinion based on your knowledge, which is far inferior than that of the Blue Aliens that are operating intergalactic spaceships.
When you are able to construct and operate intergalactic ships, I'll re-examine your theory.

How do you know that they have intergalactic ships? Destiny was already near the edge of the galaxy in Air and was just barely outside the galaxy when we last saw the aliens, and even then, they had to sabotage Destiny's already damaged engines in order to catch up to it.
The SGC, which is who TJ works for, is able to construct and operate intergalactic ships though...so maybe you should re-examine her theory...

[major davis]

you make it sound like it is a bad thing?

well... its a bit tiresome when people go...

That was like the seed.... that was like the seer.. that was like *insert classic and well respected SGA/SG-1 episode here*.... It seems like no one can just accept the fact that SGU is its own show and judge it based upon it being a unique entity... you know you would be frustrated if every time SGA aired.. I compared it to SG-1 or star trek... Though you have praised the eps you compared to SGA lol...

[Misfits]

How do you know that they have intergalactic ships? Destiny was already near the edge of the galaxy in Air and was just barely outside the galaxy when we last saw the aliens, and even then, they had to sabotage Destiny's already damaged engines in order to catch up to it.

Well, they have Spaceships capable of FTL travel. And the implication is that they have been tracking Destiny for a while.
Wraith and Aurora class Ancient ships are intergalactic ships, just not efficient in Wraith case, and 10,000 years to travel only half way between Milky way and Pegasus without hyper drive. But, they are intergalactic ships nonetheless.

The SGC, which is who TJ works for, is able to construct and operate intergalactic ships though...so maybe you should re-examine her theory...

I was questioning 'morbosfist' capabilities.. If he was working for Stargate Command, I wouldn't have put it in those terms.
As for TJ, she is on Destiny without much equipment, and she's a medic.
And TJ is clueless as to what is happening to Chloe, it's cause, stages, or the end result.

In fact, the only thing we do know is that we don't know.

[tinerin]

Well, they have Spaceships capable of FTL travel.

So did Ra...

And the implication is that they have been tracking Destiny for a while.

This is true but we haven't been given any clues as to exactly how long so you can't really use this as an argument to how advanced they are until we learn more about them.

Wraith and Aurora class Ancient ships are intergalactic ships, just not efficient in Wraith case, and 10,000 years to travel only half way between Milky way and Pegasus without hyper drive. But, they are intergalactic ships nonetheless.

By this defition, every single Stargate ship with a hyperdrive is an intergalactic ship (except for maybe the F-301)...hell, even many non-hyperdrive capable ships would be considered intergalactic ships under this definition...

As for TJ, she is on Destiny without much equipment, and she's a medic.
And TJ is clueless as to what is happening to Chloe, it's cause, stages, or the end result.

We have no idea what sort of human or alien equipment she or the Lucian Alliance brought to Destiny or what sort of Ancient medical equipment they have access too so, at this point, it's all speculation either way. And TJ might be a medic but we know that they use the stones to bring in experts; for all we know, they might have brought in Beckett to look at Chloe and he's pretty much the foremost expert in two galaxies on the subject...she's pretty much the biggest threat to Destiny at the moment so I doubt the SGC wouldn't have done something to try to learn more about her condition...

[Misfits]

So did Ra...

This is true but we haven't been given any clues as to exactly how long so you can't really use this as an argument to how advanced they are until we learn more about them.

Well, Having a spaceship that are capable of FTL travel would mean that the spacecraft can travel from one galaxy to the next one. Although it make take a long tiome to accomplish this, it would be possible.

By this defition, every single Stargate ship with a hyperdrive is an intergalactic ship (except for maybe the F-301)...hell, even many non-hyperdrive capable ships would be considered intergalactic ships under this definition...

Pretty much, yeah, it would.

We have no idea what sort of human or alien equipment she or the Lucian Alliance brought to Destiny or what sort of Ancient medical equipment they have access too so, at this point, it's all speculation either way. And TJ might be a medic but we know that they use the stones to bring in experts; for all we know, they might have brought in Beckett to look at Chloe and he's pretty much the foremost expert in two galaxies on the subject...she's pretty much the biggest threat to Destiny at the moment so I doubt the SGC wouldn't have done something to try to learn more about her condition...

TJ has stated, conclusively that she doesn't have the proper equipment to figure out what is happening to Chloe.
Yeah. I agree, it's all speculation. We, the viewers. don't know. And that is exactly my point. Without any further revelations, it would be inane to claim that what Chloe has is a virus.
I am not claiming that Chloe has this or that. I state categorically that I have no idea, whatsoever, of what Chloe has or how it's affecting her.

[Misfits]

TJ said it in the episode, as I've quoted at least three time. She ran tests using pathogens they isolated along the way, which allowed her to determine the difference between Scott's blood and Chloe's.

I agree with that.
But, what you said was the following.

I have the simple fact that TJ's already identified the problem as a pathogen through her comparative experiments.

TJ using pathogens to determine the difference is quite different from TJ identified the problem with Chloe as a pathogen.

So, tell me, who fooling who?

[Skydiver]

How about a little dose of perspective here.

Y'all are talking about a TV SHOW. And characters on a tv show. Written by writers that have a longstanding habit of tweaking 'canon' to suit their current story or who have shown blatant disregard for the show's canon.

In addition, you are fighting over make believe things done to make believe characters and using science theories that may or may not even really apply.

In other words, both of you are 'full of it' in that you're fighting over beliefs and theories that can never be proven.

So learn to play nice with each other or learn to use the ignore feature.

Your thread mates are getting tired of having to wade through pages of fighting to find discussion.