'The Greater Good' (207) General Discussion

[Uncle Tobias]

Part of its a little anti-climatic for me, whether its god or just some intelligence surely this is something the ascended ancients would already have discovered.

Maybe.. we saw with the Ori, they didn't 'see' our galaxy until Daniel and Vala went to theirs via the stones, so the ascended may still be limited somehow.

Awesome episode, also

[Coremae]

Even if they did, why would they tell us? Besides, ascension has always been said not to be true godhood.

If you ask me, the universe is one big brain, and we're all it's imagination.

[Utitan]

Maybe.. we saw with the Ori, they didn't 'see' our galaxy until Daniel and Vala went to theirs via the stones, so the ascended may still be limited somehow.

Awesome episode, also

I just have this goin on in my head, I havent been able to find a key part of information about the ancients I need to not suggest that, or ask the question of..

Spoiler:

How do we not know that Destiny hasn't already been there and maybe that Destiny isn't the very reason the Ancients ascended. The original mission was completed, they ascend and there's Destiny floating around in space for all it's time for us, the ascended Alteran's children so to speak, to try and find one day and reach the same point The beginning of time, and ascend. Leave behind earth and the milky way before the Lucian Alliance destroys it or whatever it's intents are.

Thoughts?

[morbosfist]

I just have this goin on in my head, I havent been able to find a key part of information about the ancients I need to not suggest that, or ask the question of..

Spoiler:

How do we not know that Destiny hasn't already been there and maybe that Destiny isn't the very reason the Ancients ascended. The original mission was completed, they ascend and there's Destiny floating around in space for all it's time for us, the ascended Alteran's children so to speak, to try and find one day and reach the same point The beginning of time, and ascend. Leave behind earth and the milky way before the Lucian Alliance destroys it or whatever it's intents are.

Thoughts?

Can't be.

Spoiler:

People are able to ascend without knowing anything about the universe. It's physiological.

[Browncoat1984]

Here's a question no-body has asked yet (at least I don't think so!) who attacked the alien ship and why? Was it the blue aliens or somebody else?

I love exploring derelict, abandoned ships though when it's done well and lit well as it gives an awesomely creepy atmosphere. Anybody play Dead Space? Reminded me a bit of that.

[Utitan]

Can't be.

Spoiler:

People are able to ascend without knowing anything about the universe. It's physiological.

Spoiler:

I get the overwhelming feeling though that what Rush was just talking about in his come to Jesus with Young is that they are on the way to discover ascension. That IS the mission. To discover Ascension. What Rush says is word for word the description of it. Sure there is the capability to evolve into it as it like the Ori from what I understand with a more religious point of view, but the Alterans had a scientific point of view. I could be way off, I'm just now reading up on alot of the Ancients backdrop any input is appreciated.

[Skiznot]

Brilliant episode. This is what science fiction is all about. I know these days people are calling things like Lost (the tv show not the episode). But the science fiction I've always loved most is about exploring space. Everyone who is a part of SGU should be proud and Thank YOU for getting back to the roots of science fiction. An the suspense was INSANE. I was almost going fetal in the end there.

[Commander Zelix]

Spoiler:

Sucks they killed off the

Spoiler:

hot redhead

and gave it away in the preview.

Spoiler:

Yes, it sucks. But it also sucks you give it away on this thread for people who tries to avoid watching the preview for next week episode.

Please people keep future episode spoilers in spoiler tags. Thank you.

[Kaiphantom]

Despite looking forward to an episode for once, I'm left a bit disappointed. The whole situation seems to be specifically geared to expose the bridge, and that's it. And in trying to do so, they hoped we would have ignored the numerous plot holes that led to this point:

#1. Why the hell didn't Young put someone to follow Rush in the weeks he's been studying the ship?

#2. In addition, Eli is suspicious now!? Why the hell didn't he tail Rush with a Kino before? Instead, he's gets a convenient brainstorm.

#3. Where is Simeon's guard? And shouldn't he have two guards on him? He was the only LA member to step out of line, and his behavior should have been suspicious; it obviously was to Greer. Where the hell was he? And also, wasn't there were supposed to be 2 guards per LA member. I find it hard to believe he could have taken out two.

#4. What the hell can you salvage with two men in suits in 6 hours on an alien ship? The mission never should have happened.

#5. Convenient that Rush was able to understand totally alien systems, and that the life support system had the right mixture of gases and atmosphere so that Young and Rush could breathe. But hey, we needed our Rush/Young smackdown, and that would have been hard with suits.

#6. On a slightly different tack, why would Simeon kill someone? It makes no sense. You're on a ship where nearly everyone is against you and you have no way out. Even if you still love the LA, I'd think you'd play along for now, until you have a chance to grab total power. Anything else is just stupid, because it won't gain you anything.

I could list more, but those are the major ones. Very poorly written. Someone should have found the bridge long before this. The only explanation that they didn't, is that they really and truly are idiots, which means Rush was fully justified in hiding the bridge; as he said, really complex systems, and as the scene with Amanda steering the ship showed, everyone else would have been an annoyance at best.

Young, in true childish immature fashion, restored to violence once more. So much for hoping he's grown a little. He got his own baby killed (along with several other people), and he's blaming Rush for Riley? Tad hypocritical there, Young.

So, when you add these up, you can't help but conclude Rush was right. Everyone else is an idiot, and Young really didn't deserve to know. Yes, you can probably argue Rush made mistakes. But considering how Young handled the LA, there would probably be a lot more people dead right now if Rush had told anyone, including Young.

And we'll see if everyone how buddy-buddy they are after this, though I have a feeling the next episode might not show it so much, considering what we know about what happens. It'll be a true test of Young, though, more than Rush. Young never really trusted Rush before, which justified Rush's position. So Young has to be the trusting one now, in order to really seal the breach between the two.

And lest you think I leave Rush out, I felt he handled the situation poorly, too. Hiding the bridge (while understandable since apparently everyone else is an idiot) wasn't the right call, and he should have revealed it on his own now. He could even have invented some extra lies, giving those same equations to everyone else, and letting them think they discovered the bridge. So he has his own idiot moments.

Off that track, Eli/Ginn/Chloe... Apparently Eli does visit Chloe, but considering Ginn is gonna die, Chloe won't have time to develop much jealousy over losing a friend. Shame, really; would have been an opportunity for character growth on Chloe's part.

In short, stupidity all around. A true ship of fools. Or perhaps the writers are, for asking us to suspend our disbelief past too many plot holes and stupid decisions.

[Sairnath]

Part of its a little anti-climatic for me, whether its god or just some intelligence surely this is something the ascended ancients would already have discovered.

Yeah I couldn't help but get a sickening Star Trek V feeling when i heard the mission. :/ Damn good episode though.

[morbosfist]

#1. Why the hell didn't Young put someone to follow Rush in the weeks he's been studying the ship?

As soon as he did, Rush wouldn't reveal anything.

#2. In addition, Eli is suspicious now!? Why the hell didn't he tail Rush with a Kino before? Instead, he's gets a convenient brainstorm.

Rush would surely notice, and he didn't really suspect Rush until he revealed he had a way to control the ship slightly.

#3. Where is Simeon's guard? And shouldn't he have two guards on him? He was the only LA member to step out of line, and his behavior should have been suspicious; it obviously was to Greer. Where the hell was he? And also, wasn't there were supposed to be 2 guards per LA member. I find it hard to believe he could have taken out two.

Next episode, probably.

#4. What the hell can you salvage with two men in suits in 6 hours on an alien ship? The mission never should have happened.

Guns, smaller power cells, data storage...

#5. Convenient that Rush was able to understand totally alien systems, and that the life support system had the right mixture of gases and atmosphere so that Young and Rush could breathe. But hey, we needed our Rush/Young smackdown, and that would have been hard with suits.

It should have been clear it would be the same when they found the pods. If the aliens breathe our atmosphere, it's safe to say the ship would have life support that fits.

#6. On a slightly different tack, why would Simeon kill someone? It makes no sense. You're on a ship where nearly everyone is against you and you have no way out. Even if you still love the LA, I'd think you'd play along for now, until you have a chance to grab total power. Anything else is just stupid, because it won't gain you anything.

Ginn knew something. He was obviously concerned. Simeon is loyal to the LA, and she was a risk he needed to deal with.

[Kaiphantom]

As soon as he did, Rush wouldn't reveal anything.

Rush would surely notice, and he didn't really suspect Rush until he revealed he had a way to control the ship slightly.

Assuming Rush noticed. But shelving that argument, it would have been a bright idea regardless of whether it worked or not.

Next episode, probably.

We'll see. But I'm betting they don't really show how. I'm gonna go with: "He only had one guard on him, that Simeon easily took down." Plausible, but only because of stupidity.

Guns, smaller power cells, data storage...

Granted, but it's still alien technology, and you're risking the head scientist and the commander. Very smart.

It should have been clear it would be the same when they found the pods. If the aliens breathe our atmosphere, it's safe to say the ship would have life support that fits.

Which was a convenient plot hole in that episode as well, as well as the Blues. You really want to know the odds that not one, but two alien species breathe the exact same mixture of gasses that we do? Even if the browns could breathe the atmosphere on the seed ship, they could have had the capability to do so, due to the suits they were wearing. Also, atmospheres of pressure; too much, and Young/Rush would implode. Too little, and they explode. Another convenient factoid.

Ginn knew something. He was obviously concerned. Simeon is loyal to the LA, and she was a risk he needed to deal with.

Yes, but it doesn't gain him anything. ALL the LS people were giving away secrets; Varro told Simeon this. He had no way to know whether other LA people were using stones, or what they were telling. When Ginn dies, who do you think people are going to suspect? It blows his cover and gives no benefits whatsoever.

Which, ironically, would mean Simeon fits right in with the rest of the ship of fools.

[Kane3162]

I posted @ http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...The-Last-Scene.

but ill repeat it here, it just made the jump from mix of SG and Soap Opera's, to total Soap Opera, this scenario is a definite one from the playbooks (think days of our lives, a show my mother used to watch all the time with the volume loud enough to bother me in my room, thank god i got a CD player that Christmas... 6 months of SO hell)

Guy finally gets girl, she gets killed... I cant help but feel crushed for Eli... (bleeding heart i know, nice guys DO finish last, DEAD last if your Eli now)

and I have no reservations about saying that its probably going to be what causes me to pull SGU off my watch list, and my DVR, im just that annoyed

[AquaGamer53]

#1. Why the hell didn't Young put someone to follow Rush in the weeks he's been studying the ship?

I think Rush was also capitalizing on Young's breakdown. Young seemed better, but still... deflated in this episode.

[morbosfist]

Assuming Rush noticed. But shelving that argument, it would have been a bright idea regardless of whether it worked or not.

Agreed. Young obviously had his suspicions. He should have cornered Rush on the issue.

We'll see. But I'm betting they don't really show how. I'm gonna go with: "He only had one guard on him, that Simeon easily took down." Plausible, but only because of stupidity.

Yeah, probably.

Granted, but it's still alien technology, and you're risking the head scientist and the commander. Very smart.

Yes, very smart indeed. But seriously, this is stupidity on both their parts for different reason. Rush obviously wanted to investigate the ship, and rather than overrule him, Young went along because he wanted to keep an eye on him.

Which was a convenient plot hole in that episode as well, as well as the Blues. You really want to know the odds that not one, but two alien species breathe the exact same mixture of gasses that we do? Even if the browns could breathe the atmosphere on the seed ship, they could have had the capability to do so, due to the suits they were wearing. Also, atmospheres of pressure; too much, and Young/Rush would implode. Too little, and they explode. Another convenient factoid.

The Kino, at the very least, would have informed them if the atmosphere didn't fit. You have to write off similar atmosphere as suspension of disbelief.

Yes, but it doesn't gain him anything. ALL the LS people were giving away secrets; Varro told Simeon this. He had no way to know whether other LA people were using stones, or what they were telling. When Ginn dies, who do you think people are going to suspect? It blows his cover and gives no benefits whatsoever.

As I said in the other thread, maybe it's not about him. Maybe he is truly loyal, and Ginn holds information so damaging that he'd rather sacrifice any chance of further undermining the crew just to shut her up.